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need a battery, thinking about lithium

Old 03-15-2014, 06:16 AM
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need a battery, thinking about lithium

So I need a new battery, so I revisited a few threads on the lithium type battery... as Im an avid DIYer, and electronics and computers is a very strong hobby for me, I would like to build my own lithium battery...

If i remember correctly the suitable/best lithium type is LiFePO4, is this correct?

and I stumbled across these cells on ebay,3 2V 3100mAh 9 92WH LiFePO4 IFR26650E Energy Cell Rechargeable Battery UL Listed | eBay

Is this very high mAh? would these be suitable for this application? and if they would, i believe its safe to assume I could make a 4 cell and have plenty of Ah for the job?

As always thanks for help...
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Old 03-15-2014, 10:28 AM
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ive done this myself
on both my bikes

for the hawk i have 8 of these
A123-3.3V Lithium Ion 2500mAh Single Cell Battery

and for my GSXR i have to of these in serial pattern
Turnigy 4500mAh 2S2P 30C LiFePo4 Pack

for the you don't want those i have on my GSXR
it doesnt have enough power

those cells you want are going to do the job only you wil need 8 of them
and then you need to solder,
the 4 cells in serial pattern so it becomes 14 volt and do that twice so you have two 4 cell packs and then solder those together in parrallel pattern
that way youre battery last longer
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:46 AM
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Thanks for the response.

Im good with the battery construction and circuit design but i appreciate the advice. I wanted to double check on the LiFePO4 as i know theres a bunch of different lithium type cells...

Do you really think i would need 8 though? 4 would give me 12.4 Ah which is well more then a standard replacement battery... or am i looking at that wrong?
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:03 AM
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Hey Scottie

I too think I need a new battery, mines 5 years old & even with Battery Tender help - I think its done.

But I thought I read somewhere that Lithium isn't a good battery for cold weather living.

And you need a special charger as Battery Tenders cannot be used with them.

I'm going to test mine before replacing, but I'm thinking of this battery - good price & very good CCA

YTZ14S Battery | Scorpion 12 Volt Motorcycle Batteries
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by scottiemann View Post
Thanks for the response.

Im good with the battery construction and circuit design but i appreciate the advice. I wanted to double check on the LiFePO4 as i know theres a bunch of different lithium type cells...

Do you really think i would need 8 though? 4 would give me 12.4 Ah which is well more then a standard replacement battery... or am i looking at that wrong?
From everything I've read, and understand (could be in error though) 8 cells (4S2P) is a much safer way to go. If you are using the 26650 a 4S pack will start the bike, but if, for what ever reason the bike doesn't fire right up and you end up cranking over a lot you will discharge the battery to a point where one or all of the cells will be ruined. The link that RoadManiac posted A123-3.3V Lithium Ion 2500mAh Single Cell Battery
would be good to build a pack with.

OK, I looked at the the above link again and noticed that it has tabs welded on. Better to find one w/o tabs as most are a bit thin for the application we're talking about

Last edited by xeris; 03-16-2014 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Correction
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:01 AM
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Deltran Lithium Battery

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Old 03-17-2014, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by xeris View Post
From everything I've read, and understand (could be in error though) 8 cells (4S2P) is a much safer way to go. If you are using the 26650 a 4S pack will start the bike, but if, for what ever reason the bike doesn't fire right up and you end up cranking over a lot you will discharge the battery to a point where one or all of the cells will be ruined. The link that RoadManiac posted A123-3.3V Lithium Ion 2500mAh Single Cell Battery
would be good to build a pack with.

OK, I looked at the the above link again and noticed that it has tabs welded on. Better to find one w/o tabs as most are a bit thin for the application we're talking about
on the hobbyking site there are bigger tabs that i am going to use
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:25 AM
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I just replaced my 3 1/2-year old 'standard-issue' Yuasa YTZ12S battery with a new one from Phat Performance Parts -- first time I have ordered from them. Decent price with 5% discount code shown on their website. Free UPS shipping took about a week for delivery from the West Coast to the East Coast:

Motorcycle Parts, Motorcycle Accessories PhatPerfomanceParts.com

Last time I bought one at my local dealer I paid $160 (plus tax). Mind you, I always try to support my neighborhood dealers, but since I did not need the battery straightaway I found it convenient to save $50 bucks with this online purchase. YMMV
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:51 AM
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Lately I've been getting gel (AGM) batteries on ebay, shipped from California. Gets to me in 3-4 days, and priced around $35-$40.

Gel over a traditional lead-acid battery means it doesn't care if it's mounted upside down (or tipped over), and it won't leak acid if it's cracked.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:00 PM
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But it's still heavy as ****
lithium is the way to go

when i get my cells i will make a how to or something like that

only thing is i already had a dedicated lithium charger (for my R/C cars) wich must run on a 12v power supply

but on Radio Control Planes, Helicopters, Cars, Boats, FPV and Quadcopters - Hobbyking there are turnigy chargers for 30 dollars
and you can use a old computer 12v supply, and with these chargers you can set charge amps etc etc. and charging time is around 90 min

also with those chargers you can also balance your cells from time to time
to keep the difference between all cells all the same so 1 doesnt dicharge to much, wich isnt good for any lithium battery
although some people say Lifepo4 don't need to be balanced but i am going to do it anyways... but it requires extra stuff on your home made batt
wich you can find online and i will explain later
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:11 PM
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Yea i just grabbed a cheap wally world battery to get me by until i have the time and money to build a proper lithium... the only thing that concerns me about the lithium is its lack of power in cold weather...

I will be riding in the 30s, who here knows how cold you can go before the lithium doesnt have enough power?
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:46 PM
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LiFePo4 - Lithium Iron Phosphate- shouldn't be used interchangeably with lithium. It's probably what everyone here is referring to, but my OCD kicks in and wants to correct it in case someone else reading comes in and says "oh but lithium explodes cell phones and has to have a built in balance system, blah blah blah". The chemical makeup is different from Lithium Ion. It is much more stable and has many benefits that make it awesome, but no need to go into the details right now.

I've never personally had to deal with the cold, but from what I've read LiFePo4 has a hard time when the cells are cold, but a strong quick discharge will warm the cells up enough for them to be useful (read: a couple extra turns of the starter and it'll be ready to go). I think I read Tweety saying this awhile back. You should not use a trickle charger on these and their long shelf life means they should have no maintenance. If you're off the bike for a couple weeks or more, unplug the battery.

I think balancing them at the beginning like RoadManiac is useful but not necessary with healthy cells and they shouldn't need to be balanced on a regular basis unless you do a full discharge on the battery (especially if it sits in this state before being charged again).
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:01 PM
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yea sorry about you OCD :P ...

yes i am referring to LiFePO4 cells... and from what you remember, a little extra cranking is enough to discharge the cells enough to warm them to their "working" temperature?

makes sense, is there anyone else here that is using these cells in the colder climates?
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:19 AM
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My GSXR is sitting in a quite cold garage all winter and with starting it has slight delay in power but it starts up faster then a regular battery

also i have a plug & switch build in for the battery so i can unplug it without removing anything, although this is easier on the hawk because it doesnt have 2 bolts for removing the seat

and i have volt meters on both my bikes to keep an eye on it also with a switch to turn the meter off when not riding
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Old 03-25-2014, 04:11 AM
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I purchased a 12 cell from RB batteries a year or so ago. Cells are LiFePO4. I got the quick connect; connect and disconnect in seconds. I ride my bike pretty much year round with maybe a month being longest without riding. I disconnect when I park it at home and never charge it. Fires up first try every time no matter temp. See lows in the single digits and bike stays on covered carport. It is small and light.Dimensions.
4.25" L x 3.25" W x 3.25" H (10.8cm L x 8.3cm W x 8.3cm H)
2.1lbs (~965 grams)
6.9AHr
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:38 AM
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:59 AM
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Tweety discusses his thoughts on temp and amp sizes for the VTR in that thread
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Old 03-25-2014, 08:33 AM
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Thanks for the link, yea ive read that thread a few times in the past and remember him discussing the theory on temps and performance however i dont remember any long term real world testing/evidence...

Ill havd to go back and reread it a few more times :-P
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:22 AM
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didn't Daugherty offer the lithium iron phosphate batteries? the AGM batteries are damn near bullet proof but are the heaviest.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:36 AM
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I believe he advertised the RB brand batteries but i dont know if he directly sold them... i know they used to be on his website but are no longer there...

He can confirm though
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by scottiemann View Post
I believe he advertised the RB brand batteries but i dont know if he directly sold them... i know they used to be on his website but are no longer there...
This is correct, although not sure why he's no longer showing them. I have an 8-cell 4.6AHr of his an it's working great. I'm not exactly nice to it either (but I don't have more than a handful of days below 40F).
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:41 PM
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Scotti, I got one of them RB as well, but it's not on his website anymore, not sure why, in any case I am happy with it, perform exactly as promised and no issues with the cold at all.
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Old 03-25-2014, 03:57 PM
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Good to hear...

Ruv, when are we goin for a ride? My itchy throttle wrist is twitchin... :P
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:54 PM
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Hopefully soon bro', after this stupid snow storm coming in tonight, can't wait... I think we not going to have spring this year, the summer will start right after the winter in a single day, whenever that comes....
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by scottiemann View Post
Thanks for the link, yea ive read that thread a few times in the past and remember him discussing the theory on temps and performance however i dont remember any long term real world testing/evidence...

Ill havd to go back and reread it a few more times :-P
How about I have been riding about 10 out of 12 months for four years on a single 8 cell battery... Is that good enough long term for you?

And those 2 months are December to January, which around here would mean a snowmobile, since sports bikes are a no go in white stuff, and once it gets too icy, even the dualsports gets a rest......
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:41 AM
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That is evidence enough... thank you
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:43 PM
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I just installed this about an hour ago - PITA
$69. shipped in 2 daze
YTZ14S Battery | Scorpion 12 Volt Motorcycle Batteries

Trying to get the nut to stay up under ther terminals is a real PITA, especially when one has large hands.

But I got it done - VTR roared to life, thus good for another 5 years.
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