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The Lithium battery experiment is OVER!!!!!!

Old 10-02-2014, 05:12 PM
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The Lithium battery experiment is OVER!!!!!!

Got stranded today due to my lithium battery..... no more! This was my 3rd attempt and I am turning the page on lithium batteries. They may work on a trackbike but my exposure to them has convinced me they are unreliable for everyday use and, as I like to actually ride my bike, I'll put up with the extra 6 lbs of a Yuasa.......
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Old 10-02-2014, 05:15 PM
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details!
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Old 10-02-2014, 05:54 PM
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If youre like me and take 6lb craps just do that before you ride. Plus if you get scared it's much easier on the undies and less humiliating. Win win
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:04 PM
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I got a pretty good ear full earlier today when he called me at work. Stranded on the side of the road, and bitching as hell about his new battery.

I felt pretty sorry for the guy, since I'm the one who ordered it for him. If he hasn't thrown the battery to the full strength of his arm while waiting for the tow truck (God the imagery is too funny cause he is one ill tempered son of gun LOL) I will try and warranty it for him.

I hate saying this, but through his frustration, he stopped by a Honda dealer, and bought on the spot a new Yuasa battery for about 4 times the price I can get for him.

But I won't spoil it for him, I'll let him tell the story.....oups, already did. ;O)
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:28 PM
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CV4 is no more....... I told the guy at the shop to put the axe to it...... piece of crap... my lesson in physics was the it's better to ride a 406 lb motorcycle, than to push a 400 lb one.....

so, I took my lumps, paid full price for the mew Yuasa and am good to go......

I'll get in the habit of having a big bowl of All Bran the day before a ride......
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Old 10-02-2014, 07:08 PM
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Maybe it's a silly question but why didn't you push and jump start the bike? Does the SH need a battery to run? I always thought it's there just for the starter ....
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Old 10-02-2014, 07:21 PM
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tried it... a few times, but take my word that bump starting a one litre twin with 12.2:1 compression is an exercise in futility. Besides after 3 tries at bump starting, the battery was so weak that it hardly lit up the headlight, so it probably could not have supplied power to fire the plugs, even if the rear wheel hadn't locked up (in 3rd gear!).....

this all began yesterday when the bike wouldn't start (wouldn't even turn over, this despite having ridden it the day before)...... I hooked up the special CV4 charger/balancer and noticed the reading was at 7.75 V (!!!!!!). I let it take on a full charge (over 2 hours) and it fired up great this morning. However, about 20 miles from the house, it stalled at a stop light (idle set slightly too low) and wouldn't even turn over when I hit the starter button......

the battery was barely 3 months old..... this was my 3rd (and final!!!) try at a lithium battery..... I had bought the special charger and had charged/balanced it twice already, determined to make this one last....... f***in' junk!
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:54 PM
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Good to know...my thoughts of a LI battery for my S3 have quickly dissipated...
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:18 PM
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some seem to have luck with them (notably the Shorais), but that`s not my case. Perhaps my bike has a weak charging system (guess I should look into at, though I never had any problems when running Yuasas)..... should that turn out to be the case, perhaps I can try them again, but am in no rush at this time...... getting stranded has that effect on me......
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:26 PM
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I have been thinking I'll need a new battery soon and in the past considered a LiPo because Tweaty has good luck with them. However, the cost of a factory unit versus a BYO has deterred me.

Knock on plastic I may try to keep mine until the spring and then retire it for a conventional Yuasa AGM, as my current (pun) battery has lasted quite a while. I guess 8 or so years is not too bad. I replaced the OEM out of guilt after 7. And that's with twin 50w halogens, radar detector, GPS, heated vest and grips...

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Old 10-03-2014, 05:39 AM
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Lifepo4 batteries as you found out have a much smaller margin for anything in the system being off the required spec.

Bad connection, failing R/R, low stator output, corroded (externally where visible or internally) causing high resistance... anything like that and Lifepo4 batteries will not work or last....
Lead acid, whether flooded, AGM, Gel on the other hand is more forgiving ....

Sucks you got stuck...

Absolutly 6 extra pounds is better than pushing a bike... BUT at three battery failures...I'd suspect the issue is the bike, not the battery
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by skokievtr View Post
And that's with twin 50w halogens, radar detector, GPS, heated vest and grips...


Some guys have all the luck.
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by E.Marquez View Post
BUT at three battery failures...I'd suspect the issue is the bike, not the battery
Now in a calmer state, I am leaning the same way...... time to get the voltmeter out......
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:47 AM
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mikstr: You have great opportunity for modding, quite cheap :-)

Eclipse Battery Voltage Monitor | SparkBright

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Old 10-03-2014, 06:54 AM
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Question for those in the know (I am a total retard when it comes to electronics): could a weak stator be the root of all this?
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:56 AM
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thanks for the link Stephan....... may have to give that a look
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:09 AM
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I worked with lithium ion batteries in the power tool industry before I retired and it is my belief that lithium, more than any other battery packs, seemed to be much more susceptible to heat and vibration induced failures than any previous batteries.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:25 AM
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Thanks Stephan. That's slick and the pricing/shipping is reasonable.

Which size is that you have mounted in your cluster?
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:31 AM
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I ordered Eclipse 8mm with 1m long leads.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mikstr View Post
Question for those in the know (I am a total retard when it comes to electronics): could a weak stator be the root of all this?
ANYthing that lowers the voltage or wattage to the charging wire to the battery can be the issue......
So I would simply start with key on, engine running voltage test at the battery terminals, @ Idle and at 2k RPM, 4k RPM... That will tell you if there is reason to go further.

Looking for a nice 14.5 v or better from that charging system at 2k rpm or more.
The VTR charging system is rated at full output (wattage & voltage) at 5,000RPM.. but should make full voltage slower.

Last edited by E.Marquez; 10-03-2014 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:46 AM
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Just ordered an 8mm Eclipse....... thanks again
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Old 10-03-2014, 08:08 AM
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I have had a JD battery on mine for about 3 years now. Other than behaving a little differently (the system voltage when running is lower with the lithium battery) and being undersized it has worked fine and never failed to start my bike. I do have an old Yuasa lead acid on a battery tender just in case.
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Old 10-03-2014, 09:47 AM
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I can't speak first hand for any of the other lithium chemistry (Li-ion in your case), but the LiFePo4 batteries that I have used in various circumstances have been pretty impressive. Keep us up to date on the charging system!
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Old 10-03-2014, 10:03 AM
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I have a properly operating charging system but I learned a couple things after installing Tweety's charging monitor. (KB sticky if you're interested)

If idle is even a 100 rpm low at a stop light the low voltage LED will blink in synchronization with my turn signals. If my fan comes on at idle, the low voltage LED is on steady til the fan shuts off. My measured battery voltage is fine per the Honda manual at higher RPMs. To me this says any additional draw beyond OEM loads may be loading the charging system more than you'd guess.

I have an Eastern Beaver wiring kit for my MOSFET R/R and no starting problems. My battery sits on a tender when in the garage.
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Old 10-03-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by CrankenFine View Post
I have a properly operating charging system but I learned a couple things after installing Tweety's charging monitor. (KB sticky if you're interested)

If idle is even a 100 rpm low at a stop light the low voltage LED will blink in synchronization with my turn signals. If my fan comes on at idle, the low voltage LED is on steady til the fan shuts off. My measured battery voltage is fine per the Honda manual at higher RPMs. To me this says any additional draw beyond OEM loads may be loading the charging system more than you'd guess.

I have an Eastern Beaver wiring kit for my MOSFET R/R and no starting problems. My battery sits on a tender when in the garage.
you have a lithium battery on a tender ? thats not good leave it alone
also i disconnect my battery every time when i am done with the bike for the day, may be a bit anoying with oem style connector,
also when i am riding at like 4000 rpm i get 15 volt on my volt meter,
but like crankenrine says the fan and lights draws some volts so its good idea to have more cells so more milliamps of storage
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RoadManiac View Post
you have a lithium battery on a tender ?
Nope sorry - should have specified I use an ordinary motorcycle battery.

My only point is that even a properly operating charging system well within spec still does not give you a lot of margin for error. So if you run around without a voltage monitor like mine or the one mentioned above, you could be running closer to the edge than you realize.
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Old 10-03-2014, 03:57 PM
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As in leaving a manually switched fan on in traffic
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Old 10-03-2014, 04:03 PM
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well, I seem to have found the root of my problem: the stator. I took out my voltmeter and took readings at idle and 5000 rpm, both were around 12.5V (service manual says it should be between 13.5 and 15.5 at 5k rpm). As a preventive measure, I had bought a replacement stator a couple of years back so, I decided to overcome my fear of all things electrons, and put in the new stator (old one was all black........). I fired it up afterwards and it was reading just under 14V at idle.... bingo! Moral of the story, don't procrastinate, mine cost me 3 batteries (or so it would seem)....... This may also explain why I was never able to get the RC51 cluster and Ignitech ECU to work....... I feel like a real loser I must admit....... though a wiser one now......
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:37 AM
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Stator is always the last thing people suspect, i see it on 50cc bikes and 125 more often that the stator is bad but there are cases on bikes aswell although not as much with japanese bikes, seems like italy doesnt know its electronics either because piaggio, aprilia, ducati can throw some electric hissy fits
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:07 AM
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well, bike does have well over 200,000 km after all, so I guess if I have to replace one per 200,000 km I am not doing so bad.....
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