SoundFXin3D

Hey guys... so a little while ago my front CCT died. I trailered the bike back to my garage and started working on it. I have replaced the CCT's with Truc's manual tensioners, I have re shimmed the valves, and I have timed the beast about 400 times (5 actually). Anyway my question is this. After I got the CCTs replaced I heard a clicking noise coming from the front cylinder. This is when I decided to take the head off and check the valves to make sure I didn't bend any. I checked the valves, they were fine. So I checked the shims and they were 4/1000's off so I replaced them with the correct shims. I have now put everything back together and timed it according to the manual. Last night the bike ran smooth as a whistle, but today after work I fired it up and the clicking was back. Does anybody have any experience with this noise and have any suggestions as to what I might check next? Also, on an unrelated note, the oil has become slightly milky, but I imagine this is because I may have dropped some collant into the oil during the whole exedition.

THANKS ALOT
Darek

Hawkrider

What rpm is the ticking? Also, get that oil changed out ASAP! That could be a big part of it. Try some Mobil 1 15W-50 and see how she sounds. Also make sure the CCTs aren't adjusted too loose or tight. Too tight will bog the motor down at idle. Too loose and you get noises.

SoundFXin3D

The ticking occurs threw the whole RPM range, and the oil isn't causing it because the ticking started before the oil changed. Also, I tightened the CCT's according to instructions I found on here. Finger-tight, then back it off, start the engine and tighten til the sounds go away.... right?

lazn

Yep that usually works for CCTs.

As for tracking down the noise more exactly.. Try putting in one earplug, then with your other ear, find a long tool (wrench, socket extension, large screwdriver) close your hand like a fist over one end and put your fist up against your ear. Then with the engine running set the other end of the tool up against different parts of the engine, this should allow you to more exactly place where the sound is coming from. (sounds funny, looks funny, but works) DO NOT put any part of the tool into your ear. (duh)

fuzzuki

Exhaust leak.
100% sure.
Have you taken off the exhaust and put it back together with the original gaskets?

SoundFXin3D

i took the exhaust off at the head but I didn't think they had a gasket up there... I will check it today after work. Thanks for the tip

fuzzuki

Oh yes. they do.
And they aint cheap, if you get them from Honda.
I think I paid close to 20 to 25 bucks a piece.

Circuit_Burner

Its a copper shelled asbestos "crush gasket", and theres few substitutes.
Its probably still stuck against the head if you even have one.
People mistake it for part of the head. If theres no ring crammed in there, you seriously need one.

SoundFXin3D

hmmm. well it sounds like i'm a dumbass... here I go out to the shop, I will let you know what I find out. Any body have a picture of what this should look like by chance?

chickenstrip

If you're talking about the copper gasket at the head ... look for copper color. I get a an annoying little whisping sound at the can-header connection where there's a gasket that's easily damaged - you might that a listen, too. Double check your CCT adjustment, making sure that you are getting it finger tight at that right moment of crank rotation.

SoundFXin3D

there was no gasket present... which means there was none present prior to this whole endeavor. I saw a red colored ring where the pipe fits into the head, but no copper. Good ol' Salem Honda closed early today so I can't order the gasket til Tuesday. Any chance high temp rubber gasket maker would hold over til tuesday?

SoundFXin3D

...also, the red colored ring was solidly attached to the head, I tried to pry it lose and it was cast with the head i'm sure

Circuit_Burner

That wasnt the factory gasket.
Most likely it was some red pooky they used.
If you had to you could get some ultra-copper sealant and make a cussion of the stuff
and allow to partially dry before sticking the pipe in and assembling.
I dont recommend this as it wont last long like the proper repair would.
The best way to use the new copper or asbestos rings ( there two varieties ) is with no
silicone or other sealant added.
Many times the ring sticks in the socket because of this and they go add a new one to that. Then cant figure out why the header is fitting wrong. Ive dug out 3 layers of crushed rings from the exhaust ports of a CBR once that they had obviously forgotten about.
The header fit wrong and leaked.

SoundFXin3D

alright, I appreciate all the help guys, looks like I will find out if this works next week.

fuzzuki

If you can get the correct measurement, you may be able to get them at a good car muffler shop.
Almost the same thing.
They have hollow copper rings that may work.
They also have the asbestose do-hicky ones, but I think bike gaskets are huge compared to car do-hickies.

Hawkrider

There should be nothing solidly attached to the head. That is your exhaust gasket. It's crushed to the point that it's holding itself in on the edges. I bet if you scrape it with a screwdriver or something you'll see its copper. You need to get the old one out. Tap it lightly at an angle with a cold chisel and hammer and it should loosen up (after you verify it's actually the gasket).

SoundFXin3D

UPDATE: I went to Honda today to order the gasket, they had one in stock. Lucky me! I put it on and torqued it to spec. Ticking noise is still there, any other suggestions. At this point I'm about ready to take it to the mechanic and have them listen to it and give me their best guess, then go from there. Maybe even pay them to figure it out. I can't sacrifice any more of this gorgeous weather! hahaha.

RK1

When I installed my APEs I adjusted the rear one light finger tight and it was fine. Did the front one the same way and it was noisy as hell even at idle. Had to crank down the front one quite a bit more to make the noise go away. Don't know why the difference, but there was one.

Circuit_Burner

Remember too that the cam chain guides wear out, and I havent heard too many people mention that one.
The guides that wear out arent only the two that are pressed on by the CCT. Check them all.
When it wears thru the nylon and starts clicking against the steel spine of the guide, it makes varying degrees of clatter.
When you have the head covers off, always inspect the grooves in the cam chain guides for deep wear. Theyre easy to swap while you are in there, and make the engine sound so much better.
Mine has 56,000 miles and sounds like a harley with a turbo.( but better )
The valve train should have a whizzing turboish sound if everythings right.

SoundFXin3D

So tighten the CCT's and check the guide... Got it! Thanks guys. I will let you know what I find out.

fuzzuki

What about the rear cylinder gaskets?

SoundFXin3D

rear cylinder is fine. No noises, and I didn't operate on it at all, so there is no reason they it would have any problems. Thanks

fuzzuki

I wouldn't dismiss it like that.
Make sure it's not the rear cylinder ticking.

SoundFXin3D

I'm just saying i haven't heard any noises from the rear... it is clearly coming from the front.

fuzzuki

OK, how about the other gasket lower down on the front header?

j shizzy wizzy

the fuzz is very adamant that it is an exhaust leak!

Circuit_Burner

Get a cheap stethescope or make one with a can and a rod. Locate the source of the sound.
Our old law was is if you cant determine a location ( meaning the sounds everywhere )
then its in the bottom end.
And if the sound is high pitched its almost never down deep in the engine.

nuhawk

Yeah, and while I agree that a tick is usually an exhaust leak I doubt that the sound would be "clearly from the front" if it were an exhaust bushing farther back. Remember the front header forms most of the system and only has a joint near the back tire.

Two things occur to me. One - the ticking was there before the teardown. Two - there was a CCT failure and perhaps the valve measurements/confirmation missed something. Perhaps something is amiss with the head. Did you replace the head gasket with a new one during the rebuild?

I'm just guessing here guys so don't bark at my door. I ordered a mechanic's stethoscope just last week because I can't hold a piece of hose in my ear and rev the bike at the same time.

Hawkrider

It's also possible you have a valve out of spec. I know you said you checked them but now that everything has settled in since it's running again it could have changed.