Trackday Tips
05-14-2008, 10:38 PM
#1
Senior Member
Back Marker
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Russell, Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Posts: 229
Trackday Tips
I am aware that the trackday season is under way in the Northern Hemsiphere, so thought I'd post this for you good people in the USA. I was asked to do the following posting in another VTR forum recently.
I am also well aware that many members of this forum are not at all happy with the standard VTR. My thoughts may not fit yours, and they're just my thoughts, so flame away if you like.
Background:
I instruct at Auckland M/C Club Advanced Training Days at Pukekohe - of which we're presently running about 5 or 6 a year. I've been instructing at this level for over 25 years; have won a couple of championships; still race in NZ and Australia when I can; and am a very, very long way from knowing it all.
At these training days, run for racers as well as road riders, I ride my own VTR and also my post classic race CB1100F.
VTR set-up:
Tyres (yeah, yeah, NZ spelling...) 32 psi front and 34 psi rear cold (ie about 5-6 less than I run them on on the street). Tyres are Pilot Powers. Machine is standard, but with the restrictors taken out of the carb inlet tracts. Suspension: static sag set to 20mm, damping set at about 2/3 of max, maybe a bit more. I weigh 95kg (200lb).
Riding:
We run for the slow novice, fast novice, and medium groups the "no passing on the inside" rules. Fast group is race rules ie pass wherever you like, but the safety of the passing manoeuvre is up to the overtaking rider.
Some general ideas:
1. Concentrate on smoothness. The speed will follow. You go slower by trying to go fast. If you have never been on the track before, try doing your first session without using the brakes at all. That way you can concentrate on smoothness and cornering lines.
2. Cornering lines are the start and end. Go into corners deep and wide. That way you get power back on as soon as possible, and also preserve maximum opportunity to get around other people. The biggest rate of crashes is people going in on approach too close to the inside of the corner and consequently running off track halfway through or on the way out.
3. You have never crashed until you're off the bike. The next biggest trend in crashes is guys running out of *****. You think you're going to run off the track: so, try turning it a bit harder, and be amazed that you make the corner. Another way of expressing this is: if you think you're going to crash, you will crash. (Applies in general terms as well as at specific places...).
4. Ride your own ride. Most other people (apart from the instructors ahem ahem) will know less than you do. So do not watch them. Besides, if someone you're watching runs off the track, you will, too, just because you are watching them.
5. Cornering exit speed gives you your straightline speed. That's why it is important to get power on early through corners.
VTR specifics:
1. It's a V twin. What do you want to buzz it for? It'll work equally well most places at 7K rpm as on the limiter. Wind it out in top, though; if you're doing the corners right, you'll find that you get about the same top speed as most of the new sports 600s (because the riders are bunnies. Then you can **** them off in the pits by allowing that, yes, you have a standard 1997 design twin...).
2. It has really good front brakes. Use them hard. If you're not on the gas, you're on the brakes. If you're on the brakes, you're on them hard. Easy (but remember the smoothness). Note: if you're using your front brakes good and hard, the rear brake will be pretty much irrelevant on the VTR, as (a) there will be little weight keeping the rear wheel on the ground, and (b) engine braking as you change down will be enough to supply rear wheel retarding anyway. As a point of interest, my VTR has done 4 track days and 11,600km, and has not quite worn out the standard front brake pads it came with new. I just seldom brake at all hard on the street.
3. The VTR will suck fuel like you would not believe. I usually go through 3 tankfuls a day at the track, riding the VTR every second session. Get someone to bring spare fuel for you if possible.
4. If you're not grinding the hero ***** on the footrests, or if you still have chicken strips on the sides of your tyres, don't worry about hanging off or even sticking your knee down far. It's just something else to think of, and the VTR likes running leaned over anyway. And the sparks flying off the hero ***** are cool in photos.
5. It's meant to be fun. If you're not having fun, slow down until you are.
And here are a few more ideas, all along the theme of being calm and relaxed:
1. Any bike being ridden hard on the track will move about a bit as the tyres squirm. Don't worry - and in particular, don't hold the bars in a tight deathgrip. The machine will sort itself out, specially a VTR, which is a very forgiving machine. (Lotsa folk mistake tyre squirming for frame twisting.)
2. Try to relax. If you end up fighting the machine, you will end up on your ear on the ground.
3. If you have a steering damper fitted, loosen it right off. On a VTR, the only thing a steering damper achieves, in my view, is to slow the bike's own reactions, making eg tank slappers worse. Basically if you have a stability problem that only a damper will sort, then the VTR is not set up right, or maybe has poorly repaired crash damage. (A little story about this, concerning the big modified TZ Yamaha I used to race for the guy who owned it: he wanted a steering damper on it really badly, so we fitted one. It made a bike that was difficult in corners because of the power delivery much, much worse, magnifying every weave. So I would loosen the damper right off on the warm-up lap, tightening it again before I came back into the pits and before the owner could check.)
4. If your VTR weaves along straights, it's probably tyre wear. A little bit of weaving under hard acceleration out of corners can be expected; NB this is not a tankslapper.
5. Concentrating on riding smoothly will help the relaxing, and the relaxing will help your concentration.
6. Sidelight on the concentration thing: one of the aspects I love about track riding is that I get to concentrate on that 100%, and so for those brief periods of time all my worries for the other parts of my life vanish.
7. Do not depend/rely on "reactions" and "fast reaction time". Think and plan. Then you will not do anything too suddenly, which (not being smooth) then upsets the stability of your machine.
8. There is no real need to get too analytical and formulaic about it. Good example: Peter Williams, Norton development and race rider of the 60's and 70's commented in his column in the May 2008 "Classic Bike" magazine that neither he nor any of the top riders he raced against ever used braking markers on the track. It may be that the "braking markers" thing is as much an invention of journalists as is the idea that any corner has only one perfect line. I've tried to use markers and always forgotten 'em, myself.
I am also well aware that many members of this forum are not at all happy with the standard VTR. My thoughts may not fit yours, and they're just my thoughts, so flame away if you like.
Background:
I instruct at Auckland M/C Club Advanced Training Days at Pukekohe - of which we're presently running about 5 or 6 a year. I've been instructing at this level for over 25 years; have won a couple of championships; still race in NZ and Australia when I can; and am a very, very long way from knowing it all.
At these training days, run for racers as well as road riders, I ride my own VTR and also my post classic race CB1100F.
VTR set-up:
Tyres (yeah, yeah, NZ spelling...) 32 psi front and 34 psi rear cold (ie about 5-6 less than I run them on on the street). Tyres are Pilot Powers. Machine is standard, but with the restrictors taken out of the carb inlet tracts. Suspension: static sag set to 20mm, damping set at about 2/3 of max, maybe a bit more. I weigh 95kg (200lb).
Riding:
We run for the slow novice, fast novice, and medium groups the "no passing on the inside" rules. Fast group is race rules ie pass wherever you like, but the safety of the passing manoeuvre is up to the overtaking rider.
Some general ideas:
1. Concentrate on smoothness. The speed will follow. You go slower by trying to go fast. If you have never been on the track before, try doing your first session without using the brakes at all. That way you can concentrate on smoothness and cornering lines.
2. Cornering lines are the start and end. Go into corners deep and wide. That way you get power back on as soon as possible, and also preserve maximum opportunity to get around other people. The biggest rate of crashes is people going in on approach too close to the inside of the corner and consequently running off track halfway through or on the way out.
3. You have never crashed until you're off the bike. The next biggest trend in crashes is guys running out of *****. You think you're going to run off the track: so, try turning it a bit harder, and be amazed that you make the corner. Another way of expressing this is: if you think you're going to crash, you will crash. (Applies in general terms as well as at specific places...).
4. Ride your own ride. Most other people (apart from the instructors ahem ahem) will know less than you do. So do not watch them. Besides, if someone you're watching runs off the track, you will, too, just because you are watching them.
5. Cornering exit speed gives you your straightline speed. That's why it is important to get power on early through corners.
VTR specifics:
1. It's a V twin. What do you want to buzz it for? It'll work equally well most places at 7K rpm as on the limiter. Wind it out in top, though; if you're doing the corners right, you'll find that you get about the same top speed as most of the new sports 600s (because the riders are bunnies. Then you can **** them off in the pits by allowing that, yes, you have a standard 1997 design twin...).
2. It has really good front brakes. Use them hard. If you're not on the gas, you're on the brakes. If you're on the brakes, you're on them hard. Easy (but remember the smoothness). Note: if you're using your front brakes good and hard, the rear brake will be pretty much irrelevant on the VTR, as (a) there will be little weight keeping the rear wheel on the ground, and (b) engine braking as you change down will be enough to supply rear wheel retarding anyway. As a point of interest, my VTR has done 4 track days and 11,600km, and has not quite worn out the standard front brake pads it came with new. I just seldom brake at all hard on the street.
3. The VTR will suck fuel like you would not believe. I usually go through 3 tankfuls a day at the track, riding the VTR every second session. Get someone to bring spare fuel for you if possible.
4. If you're not grinding the hero ***** on the footrests, or if you still have chicken strips on the sides of your tyres, don't worry about hanging off or even sticking your knee down far. It's just something else to think of, and the VTR likes running leaned over anyway. And the sparks flying off the hero ***** are cool in photos.
5. It's meant to be fun. If you're not having fun, slow down until you are.
And here are a few more ideas, all along the theme of being calm and relaxed:
1. Any bike being ridden hard on the track will move about a bit as the tyres squirm. Don't worry - and in particular, don't hold the bars in a tight deathgrip. The machine will sort itself out, specially a VTR, which is a very forgiving machine. (Lotsa folk mistake tyre squirming for frame twisting.)
2. Try to relax. If you end up fighting the machine, you will end up on your ear on the ground.
3. If you have a steering damper fitted, loosen it right off. On a VTR, the only thing a steering damper achieves, in my view, is to slow the bike's own reactions, making eg tank slappers worse. Basically if you have a stability problem that only a damper will sort, then the VTR is not set up right, or maybe has poorly repaired crash damage. (A little story about this, concerning the big modified TZ Yamaha I used to race for the guy who owned it: he wanted a steering damper on it really badly, so we fitted one. It made a bike that was difficult in corners because of the power delivery much, much worse, magnifying every weave. So I would loosen the damper right off on the warm-up lap, tightening it again before I came back into the pits and before the owner could check.)
4. If your VTR weaves along straights, it's probably tyre wear. A little bit of weaving under hard acceleration out of corners can be expected; NB this is not a tankslapper.
5. Concentrating on riding smoothly will help the relaxing, and the relaxing will help your concentration.
6. Sidelight on the concentration thing: one of the aspects I love about track riding is that I get to concentrate on that 100%, and so for those brief periods of time all my worries for the other parts of my life vanish.
7. Do not depend/rely on "reactions" and "fast reaction time". Think and plan. Then you will not do anything too suddenly, which (not being smooth) then upsets the stability of your machine.
8. There is no real need to get too analytical and formulaic about it. Good example: Peter Williams, Norton development and race rider of the 60's and 70's commented in his column in the May 2008 "Classic Bike" magazine that neither he nor any of the top riders he raced against ever used braking markers on the track. It may be that the "braking markers" thing is as much an invention of journalists as is the idea that any corner has only one perfect line. I've tried to use markers and always forgotten 'em, myself.
Last edited by PJay; 05-14-2008 at 10:42 PM. Reason: Clarity
05-15-2008, 04:00 AM
#2
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Warren, NH
Posts: 284
Thanks for the info. I am looking into doing a track day this year. I raced moto-x for years and really enjoy riding on tracks. Look foward to trying a paved track. I never would have guessed that the SH would use that much gas. I would have been pissed if ran out of gas after the first sension. I am assuming that you drop the tire pressure that much because of the extra heat build up will raise the pressure back up.
05-15-2008, 06:24 AM
#3
medium fast guy
Back Marker
Join Date: May 2008
Location: western MI, rust & pot hole capital of the world
Posts: 212
re: Track Days
I especially agree with three points; stay relaxed and loose on the bike, the bike is generally more capable than the rider, and don't fixate, look where you want to go and keep scanning as far ahead as possible.
Track days are a great opportunity to improve your skills, have fun, and get the speed on the street out of your system.
Track days are a great opportunity to improve your skills, have fun, and get the speed on the street out of your system.
05-15-2008, 08:35 AM
#4
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
Posts: 1,689
Excellent. thank you for taking the time to write it.
I especially agree with the statements about staying relaxed and not trying to go fast. Concentrate on being smooth and calm and the speed will come naturally.
I remember my first track day and could not believe how much faster the speeds were than anything I would ever consider on the street.
I especially agree with the statements about staying relaxed and not trying to go fast. Concentrate on being smooth and calm and the speed will come naturally.
I remember my first track day and could not believe how much faster the speeds were than anything I would ever consider on the street.
05-15-2008, 10:32 AM
#6
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,051
i will add this:
unless your a fast(ish) street rider... don't have high expectations from your first trackday. it's a ton of fun but there is a lot to learn, there is no need to think you'll have your knee on the deck your first time out ( the most common goal ).
read a book about track riding. don't overload yourself with racing lines, trail braking etc. etc. but you need to understand what brake & turn markers are.
a common complaint is about instruction. if it's a trackday & not a school there will be 'general group instruction' but speak up & ask for 1 on 1 help !
get as much as you can... it will make the biggest difference.
once you get the flow of the track, pick a section to improve on.
it is a race track but ride within your skills
then...... start saving for your next crackday.
tim
it's started:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=14715
unless your a fast(ish) street rider... don't have high expectations from your first trackday. it's a ton of fun but there is a lot to learn, there is no need to think you'll have your knee on the deck your first time out ( the most common goal ).
read a book about track riding. don't overload yourself with racing lines, trail braking etc. etc. but you need to understand what brake & turn markers are.
a common complaint is about instruction. if it's a trackday & not a school there will be 'general group instruction' but speak up & ask for 1 on 1 help !
get as much as you can... it will make the biggest difference.
once you get the flow of the track, pick a section to improve on.
it is a race track but ride within your skills
then...... start saving for your next crackday.
tim
it's started:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=14715
Last edited by trinc; 05-15-2008 at 10:34 AM.
05-15-2008, 03:11 PM
#7
Senior Member
Back Marker
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Russell, Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Posts: 229
OK, picking up on a couple of the points:
Tyre pressures - yes, 2 reasons for running lower than on the street. One is, indeed, that you will be riding harder all the time and the tyres will get and keep heat in, thus raising the pressure a few psi anyway. The other reason is that the lower initial pressures promote some flexing in the tyre carcass, which heats the tyre and makes the tread stickier. (Aside: tyre warmers - for most trackday riders, tyre warmers will not actually make the tyres all that much stickier for the whole of the session, but save plenty of the wear you get as they heat from cold only by riding on them. So, for most folk, tyre warmers save you money but do not necessarily make the machine work better on track after about the first lap or so.)
Next, yes, if you've not ridden at trackday before, be amazed at how much faster than you some people are. Then watch how smooth the truly fast ones are, even when their bikes are moving about a bit. See their lines, see their braking.
Next, however fast you are, there's always someone faster. In schools I have run, three of our instructors have raced at World Championship level, one having won the British 500 Grand Prix and one having been a world champion. Of our present instructors, several have been national champions in NZ and other countries, one of those having been a motorcycle tyre test rider for Pirelli. We occasionally have participants who are nearly as quick as these guys. (This is just our club, so the instructors all put in the effort as a gratis return to the sport. Some of the manufacturers provide machines for the guys to ride, which makes it easier, as in our schools we make a point of the instructors riding standard road bikes for at least half of the time.)
Next: one on one. What we try to do is observe one rider at a time by following them on track to get into their pace and habits. Then we might signal them to follow us, at their pace but on our lines. I tend to ride three sessions out of four, then spend the 4th going around the pits talking to the riders I have been observing. But, yes, ask, ask, ask.
And finally for this post: good points above about choosing sections of the track at a time to concentrate on. It helps you analyze what you're doing. But rhythm and flow are really important. The way you do each corner will affect the way you do the next ones. Ideally you want to get to the state where the whole circuit is one easy flow to ride, so you don't want experimenting in one section of the track to be a fully isolated thing.
Tyre pressures - yes, 2 reasons for running lower than on the street. One is, indeed, that you will be riding harder all the time and the tyres will get and keep heat in, thus raising the pressure a few psi anyway. The other reason is that the lower initial pressures promote some flexing in the tyre carcass, which heats the tyre and makes the tread stickier. (Aside: tyre warmers - for most trackday riders, tyre warmers will not actually make the tyres all that much stickier for the whole of the session, but save plenty of the wear you get as they heat from cold only by riding on them. So, for most folk, tyre warmers save you money but do not necessarily make the machine work better on track after about the first lap or so.)
Next, yes, if you've not ridden at trackday before, be amazed at how much faster than you some people are. Then watch how smooth the truly fast ones are, even when their bikes are moving about a bit. See their lines, see their braking.
Next, however fast you are, there's always someone faster. In schools I have run, three of our instructors have raced at World Championship level, one having won the British 500 Grand Prix and one having been a world champion. Of our present instructors, several have been national champions in NZ and other countries, one of those having been a motorcycle tyre test rider for Pirelli. We occasionally have participants who are nearly as quick as these guys. (This is just our club, so the instructors all put in the effort as a gratis return to the sport. Some of the manufacturers provide machines for the guys to ride, which makes it easier, as in our schools we make a point of the instructors riding standard road bikes for at least half of the time.)
Next: one on one. What we try to do is observe one rider at a time by following them on track to get into their pace and habits. Then we might signal them to follow us, at their pace but on our lines. I tend to ride three sessions out of four, then spend the 4th going around the pits talking to the riders I have been observing. But, yes, ask, ask, ask.
And finally for this post: good points above about choosing sections of the track at a time to concentrate on. It helps you analyze what you're doing. But rhythm and flow are really important. The way you do each corner will affect the way you do the next ones. Ideally you want to get to the state where the whole circuit is one easy flow to ride, so you don't want experimenting in one section of the track to be a fully isolated thing.
Last edited by PJay; 05-15-2008 at 03:22 PM. Reason: Clarity again
05-15-2008, 04:11 PM
#8
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
Posts: 3,844
Very nice, 
I would just like to add a couple of things to it if I may.
First about tire pressure, if you have a track vendor for tires ask them about pressure because not all tires work best at one set psi the power race pr's run 22 in the rear. But what you wrote is a good starting point for most, again perfect psi is also somewhat subjective to set up and rider.
Second and again I'm kind of nit picking here but everyone,(including myself), says practice being smooth work on smoothness and you'll automatically get better and it's true. My only problem is we never explain what it really means, to me it's all about controlled inputs and looking down the track. Smooth inputs from all aspects, throttle, brakes, steering and body try not to be jerky or moving around mid corner. Be set up in your body position,(whatever it may be), before you get to the corner and keep that position, some better riders will do subtle changes for more traction but most people will just upset the bike. Looking thorough the corner helps to keep you calm because it looks like you're going slower and things aren't coming up on you as fast and will keep you from target fixation.
No 2 and 4 are really good points, I have a funny story about my first track day. 1st session out, just learning the lines doing a follow the leader, there's one guy in front of me and the control rider. After 4 laps he waves us to go ahead and pass him, so the guy in front of me hits it and I follow at a good pace coming down the frontstraight. We go into turn one pretty good but a little fast for first timers and I'm focused on what he's doing,(blind leading the blind) he goes off half way through the corner and I went off coming out.
Point being if I was riding my own ride I wouldn't have been onthat line and knowing now what I didn't know then I could've made it.
I would just like to add a couple of things to it if I may. First about tire pressure, if you have a track vendor for tires ask them about pressure because not all tires work best at one set psi the power race pr's run 22 in the rear. But what you wrote is a good starting point for most, again perfect psi is also somewhat subjective to set up and rider.
Second and again I'm kind of nit picking here but everyone,(including myself), says practice being smooth work on smoothness and you'll automatically get better and it's true. My only problem is we never explain what it really means, to me it's all about controlled inputs and looking down the track. Smooth inputs from all aspects, throttle, brakes, steering and body try not to be jerky or moving around mid corner. Be set up in your body position,(whatever it may be), before you get to the corner and keep that position, some better riders will do subtle changes for more traction but most people will just upset the bike. Looking thorough the corner helps to keep you calm because it looks like you're going slower and things aren't coming up on you as fast and will keep you from target fixation.
No 2 and 4 are really good points, I have a funny story about my first track day. 1st session out, just learning the lines doing a follow the leader, there's one guy in front of me and the control rider. After 4 laps he waves us to go ahead and pass him, so the guy in front of me hits it and I follow at a good pace coming down the frontstraight. We go into turn one pretty good but a little fast for first timers and I'm focused on what he's doing,(blind leading the blind) he goes off half way through the corner and I went off coming out.
Point being if I was riding my own ride I wouldn't have been onthat line and knowing now what I didn't know then I could've made it.
Last edited by superhawk22; 05-15-2008 at 04:14 PM.
05-15-2008, 04:21 PM
#9
Senior Member
Back Marker
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Russell, Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Posts: 229
No, not nit picking at all. I tend to forget that, when I write, I am not doing the hand gestures and body movements I do when I am teling people in discussion about smoothness.
Yeah, no jerkiness, no sudden movements. A couple of examples: (a) it's a good idea to do clutchless gear changes up the gears, but use the clutch for downchanges - keeps maximum smoothness both ways; (b) if you're watching and planning, you won't need to change line in a hurry in a corner to avoid someone else who has got into strife (not always...
); (c) if you are shifting your weight from side to side of the machine, try a fast glide, as it were, not a jump.
[Later edit; just thought of this, arising from the post immediately above, though it is one of the more advanced ideas I was aiming to avoid in this thread] Weight on the outside footrest to keep the rear inward and the front steering out a bit, weight on the inside footrest to kick the rear to the outside of the turn a bit. It's a direct parallel with the MX and trials technique of keeping your weight on the downhill facing footrest to keep your bike gripping as you go along the side of a hill.
Yeah, no jerkiness, no sudden movements. A couple of examples: (a) it's a good idea to do clutchless gear changes up the gears, but use the clutch for downchanges - keeps maximum smoothness both ways; (b) if you're watching and planning, you won't need to change line in a hurry in a corner to avoid someone else who has got into strife (not always...
); (c) if you are shifting your weight from side to side of the machine, try a fast glide, as it were, not a jump.[Later edit; just thought of this, arising from the post immediately above, though it is one of the more advanced ideas I was aiming to avoid in this thread] Weight on the outside footrest to keep the rear inward and the front steering out a bit, weight on the inside footrest to kick the rear to the outside of the turn a bit. It's a direct parallel with the MX and trials technique of keeping your weight on the downhill facing footrest to keep your bike gripping as you go along the side of a hill.
Last edited by PJay; 05-15-2008 at 04:26 PM.
05-15-2008, 04:26 PM
#10
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
Posts: 3,844
Not to bash but those are the ones I usually see going down in the first few sessions! 
It's always the same thing, a budy of the guy will say "he's screamin fast on the street!" and a little while later as they look over the tangled mess I hear, "I don't know what happened". I was always back of the pack riding on the street and with those same riders I'm the fastest of our group and got my knee down before them. Just a thought
05-15-2008, 04:32 PM
#11
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
Posts: 3,844
No, not nit picking at all. I tend to forget that, when I write, I am not doing the hand gestures and body movements I do when I am teling people in discussion about smoothness. That's funny it most be a universal language 
Yeah, no jerkiness, no sudden movements. A couple of examples: (a) it's a good idea to do clutchless gear changes up the gears, but use the clutch for downchanges - keeps maximum smoothness both ways; (b) if you're watching and planning, you won't need to change line in a hurry in a corner to avoid someone else who has got into strife (not always...); (c) if you are shifting your weight from side to side of the machine, try a fast glide, as it were, not a jump.
[Later edit; just thought of this, arising from the post immediately above, though it is one of the more advanced ideas I was aiming to avoid in this thread] Weight on the outside footrest to keep the rear inward and the front steering out a bit, weight on the inside footrest to kick the rear to the outside of the turn a bit. It's a direct parallel with the MX and trials technique of keeping your weight on the downhill facing footrest to keep your bike gripping as you go along the side of a hill.
Yeah, no jerkiness, no sudden movements. A couple of examples: (a) it's a good idea to do clutchless gear changes up the gears, but use the clutch for downchanges - keeps maximum smoothness both ways; (b) if you're watching and planning, you won't need to change line in a hurry in a corner to avoid someone else who has got into strife (not always...
); (c) if you are shifting your weight from side to side of the machine, try a fast glide, as it were, not a jump.[Later edit; just thought of this, arising from the post immediately above, though it is one of the more advanced ideas I was aiming to avoid in this thread] Weight on the outside footrest to keep the rear inward and the front steering out a bit, weight on the inside footrest to kick the rear to the outside of the turn a bit. It's a direct parallel with the MX and trials technique of keeping your weight on the downhill facing footrest to keep your bike gripping as you go along the side of a hill.
05-15-2008, 04:33 PM
#12
Senior Member
Back Marker
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Russell, Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Posts: 229
Not to bash but those are the ones I usually see going down in the first few sessions! It's always the same thing, a budy of the guy will say "he's screamin fast on the street!" and a little while later as they look over the tangled mess I hear, "I don't know what happened". I was always back of the pack riding on the street and with those same riders I'm the fastest of our group and got my knee down before them. Just a thoughtThe motor stayed atttached to the frame of his bike, but that was about all.
05-15-2008, 06:01 PM
#14
Senior Member
Back Marker
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Russell, Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Posts: 229
On drag bikes I've ridden, we had ignition cutouts that let you hold the throttle wide full open when changing, but without that you'd have problems, I think, as you need to let some load off the gears to do a change.
(If your clutch is worn, disengaging it on hard upchanges will promote slipping as it engages again.)
BTW to anyone for whom it was not already clear: the chassis/suspension settings and tyre pressures I mentioned in the first post are my starting points. They do need to vary according to ambient temperature, bumpiness or smoothness of the track, type of seal surface etc. You can tell a lot by reading the way your tyres wear, just as you can tell a lot of what your engine is doing by reading the spark plugs.
Last edited by PJay; 05-15-2008 at 06:06 PM.
05-15-2008, 06:38 PM
#15
Senior Member
Back Marker
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 147
WARNING POSSIBLE thread JACK!
hey.... who wants to take me under their wing and allow me to tag along on a trackday somewhere. Im up for traveling 3-4 hours for a day at the track... so let me know. Ive been wanting to ride at a track for a long time. I figure riding at the track will make me a better all around rider and build some confidence.
hey.... who wants to take me under their wing and allow me to tag along on a trackday somewhere. Im up for traveling 3-4 hours for a day at the track... so let me know. Ive been wanting to ride at a track for a long time. I figure riding at the track will make me a better all around rider and build some confidence.
05-15-2008, 09:42 PM
#17
medium fast guy
Back Marker
Join Date: May 2008
Location: western MI, rust & pot hole capital of the world
Posts: 212
Optimal tire pressures can also vary by brand, Michelin's work best at lower pressures than Pirelli's. Talk to the tire tech at the track to get recommended psi for the tires you are running. I'm currently running Pirelli Super Corsa 3's and they need 32-34 psi, my buddies running Michelin's are in the mid 20's. You want to try and keep your hot tire pressure within 10% of cold tire pressure. Salt and pepper to taste.
05-15-2008, 09:51 PM
#18
medium fast guy
Back Marker
Join Date: May 2008
Location: western MI, rust & pot hole capital of the world
Posts: 212
Tire warmers serve another purpose in that by keeping the tires hot, you prevent heat cycling of the tire. This hot/cold cycling of tires rapidly breaks down the rubber, and significantly hardens it. The less cycling the more pliable the tire, the more pliable the tire the better the grip.
05-18-2008, 03:35 PM
#20
Senior Member
Back Marker
Back Marker
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Russell, Bay of Islands, New Zealand
Posts: 229
Trackday Self Preparation Tips
Some more simple ideas that work, this time for yourself:
1. If you're feeling like crap, it won't help. Don't get on the booze the night before.
2. Staying hydrated is good. It helps keep you alert. And also, because you're out in the wind and weather all day, that dehydrates you and gives you a crashing headache at the end of the day if you don't drink enough water.
3. But....piddle it all out. If you crash with a very full bladder, your bladder will burst and there are all sorts of horrendous complications from that, I have been told.
4. Just as with playing any other sport, nutrition is important. Bananas for carbohydrates, other fruit, and in summary eating enough food during the day. It is easy in the excitement to fail to eat. That will reduce your energy and attentiveness.
5. Try to do nothing at the last minute eg machine preparation, getting to the track. Mistakes happen when you are in a rush, and then you don't have time to fix them. You want to be alert and excited, yes, but within a calm frame of mind.
6. Lotsa people would be very wise to tape over their speedometers. I have seen folk **** yellow when they looked at their speedos, suddenly cease accelerating, and nearly cause crashes. Besides, the machine's own speedometer will not be tremendously accurate at top straightline speeds. And you have better things to do in corners than check your measured speed.
1. If you're feeling like crap, it won't help. Don't get on the booze the night before.
2. Staying hydrated is good. It helps keep you alert. And also, because you're out in the wind and weather all day, that dehydrates you and gives you a crashing headache at the end of the day if you don't drink enough water.
3. But....piddle it all out. If you crash with a very full bladder, your bladder will burst and there are all sorts of horrendous complications from that, I have been told.
4. Just as with playing any other sport, nutrition is important. Bananas for carbohydrates, other fruit, and in summary eating enough food during the day. It is easy in the excitement to fail to eat. That will reduce your energy and attentiveness.
5. Try to do nothing at the last minute eg machine preparation, getting to the track. Mistakes happen when you are in a rush, and then you don't have time to fix them. You want to be alert and excited, yes, but within a calm frame of mind.
6. Lotsa people would be very wise to tape over their speedometers. I have seen folk **** yellow when they looked at their speedos, suddenly cease accelerating, and nearly cause crashes. Besides, the machine's own speedometer will not be tremendously accurate at top straightline speeds. And you have better things to do in corners than check your measured speed.
05-18-2008, 06:17 PM
#21
medium fast guy
Back Marker
Join Date: May 2008
Location: western MI, rust & pot hole capital of the world
Posts: 212
Here's a second to taping over your speedo. Bad idea to take your eyes off the track ahead. I foolishly did this once to check my top speed on the Andretti straight at Mosport. Think about how many feet you can cover in 1-2 seconds at 150+, the thought scared me into never doing it again. Trap speed is really secondary to lap times (and having fun) anyway.
05-18-2008, 07:20 PM
#22
Administrator
World Champion
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fulton, MO
Posts: 105,287
The only thing I've ever looked at is my tach, and usually as a guide to see how I'm doing exiting tough corners. I shift by feel and sound. I've never taped off my speedo. Never really cared to look since I'm more interested at what's coming at me at 100+mph.
05-19-2008, 08:19 PM
#23
WERA #44
Superstock
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: About 57 miles south of VIR
Posts: 265
I got a Isle of Man TT on bike video years ago and watched and listened to it quite a bit. I learned shifting at race pace by listening to that video. Those guys are beyond talented and major crazy. I want to take my Hawk there.
05-21-2008, 07:26 AM
#24
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
Posts: 3,844
WARNING POSSIBLE thread JACK!
hey.... who wants to take me under their wing and allow me to tag along on a trackday somewhere. Im up for traveling 3-4 hours for a day at the track... so let me know. Ive been wanting to ride at a track for a long time. I figure riding at the track will make me a better all around rider and build some confidence.
hey.... who wants to take me under their wing and allow me to tag along on a trackday somewhere. Im up for traveling 3-4 hours for a day at the track... so let me know. Ive been wanting to ride at a track for a long time. I figure riding at the track will make me a better all around rider and build some confidence.
05-21-2008, 07:28 AM
#25
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville FLA.
Posts: 3,844
Here's a second to taping over your speedo. Bad idea to take your eyes off the track ahead. I foolishly did this once to check my top speed on the Andretti straight at Mosport. Think about how many feet you can cover in 1-2 seconds at 150+, the thought scared me into never doing it again. Trap speed is really secondary to lap times (and having fun) anyway.
I even put my lap timer on my tail so I'm not tempted to peek.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Pdaddy
General Discussion
12
06-01-2006 04:46 PM
