Steering head bearings (wow!)
10-28-2009, 02:43 PM
#31
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 505
I just received a set of tapered bearings from Galaxieman. I have a question about installing them into an otherwise stock steering stem. Do you guys just follow the procedure outlined in the manual?
I don't have the manual handy right now but I think it says that it should take about three pounds of force on the fork tube to turn the whole assembly. Does the different style of bearings effect this? Are any torque values changed?
I don't have the manual handy right now but I think it says that it should take about three pounds of force on the fork tube to turn the whole assembly. Does the different style of bearings effect this? Are any torque values changed?
10-28-2009, 05:22 PM
#32
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SuperSport
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Location: San Diego, CA
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I would expect the tapered rollers have more friction than *****. Or at least they'd take more preload to get the same pressure on the bearing surfaces. Good question.
I guess it depends on whether that 3 lbs is for setting bearing preload, or if it's just a good amount of friction for the bike's handling.
I guess it depends on whether that 3 lbs is for setting bearing preload, or if it's just a good amount of friction for the bike's handling.
10-28-2009, 05:40 PM
#33
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SuperBike
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Kendrick,
The intent of the manual is to raise the front end by the frame with straps or the like. You need to be able to move the front end back and forth freely to ensure the bearings are not too tight (or loose for that matter). Too loose will beat the new bearings to oblivion. Too tight will cause weaving and strange handling woes.
The intent of the manual is to raise the front end by the frame with straps or the like. You need to be able to move the front end back and forth freely to ensure the bearings are not too tight (or loose for that matter). Too loose will beat the new bearings to oblivion. Too tight will cause weaving and strange handling woes.
10-28-2009, 06:39 PM
#34
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MotoGP
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 4,138
I snug my neck bearings (allballz) every six months. I might get .004 out of them - makes a difference. I'm looking forward to adding Trucker's forkbrace and a new set of tires before Turkey Day.
10-28-2009, 08:58 PM
#35
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Location: Fulton, MO
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Bret,
Use a dab of automotive touch-up paint or Sharpie to mark the positions of the clip-ons. That will make things a whole lot easier to get back in place.
As for HSC, I put a fairly large bleed in your valves. I would not recommend going any larger. You can try a slightly lighter oil. I put in Silkolene RSF Pro 5wt with a viscosity of 26.7 cSt. The next lighter fluid I recommend would be Maxima Racing Shock Fluid 5wt with a viscosity of 21.0 cSt. You'll have to tweak your rebound about a 1/4 turn and you won't have quite as much LSC (anti-dive) if you do this.
Remember, there's some tradeoff with suspension. Without spending LOTS of money it'll be difficult to have both comfort and control.
Check your shock settings. A hard hit in the rear can sometimes feel like the front is firmer than it really is.
Use a dab of automotive touch-up paint or Sharpie to mark the positions of the clip-ons. That will make things a whole lot easier to get back in place.
As for HSC, I put a fairly large bleed in your valves. I would not recommend going any larger. You can try a slightly lighter oil. I put in Silkolene RSF Pro 5wt with a viscosity of 26.7 cSt. The next lighter fluid I recommend would be Maxima Racing Shock Fluid 5wt with a viscosity of 21.0 cSt. You'll have to tweak your rebound about a 1/4 turn and you won't have quite as much LSC (anti-dive) if you do this.
Remember, there's some tradeoff with suspension. Without spending LOTS of money it'll be difficult to have both comfort and control.
Check your shock settings. A hard hit in the rear can sometimes feel like the front is firmer than it really is.
10-28-2009, 09:53 PM
#36
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
Bret,
Use a dab of automotive touch-up paint or Sharpie to mark the positions of the clip-ons. That will make things a whole lot easier to get back in place.
As for HSC, I put a fairly large bleed in your valves. I would not recommend going any larger. You can try a slightly lighter oil. I put in Silkolene RSF Pro 5wt with a viscosity of 26.7 cSt. The next lighter fluid I recommend would be Maxima Racing Shock Fluid 5wt with a viscosity of 21.0 cSt. You'll have to tweak your rebound about a 1/4 turn and you won't have quite as much LSC (anti-dive) if you do this.
Remember, there's some tradeoff with suspension. Without spending LOTS of money it'll be difficult to have both comfort and control.
Check your shock settings. A hard hit in the rear can sometimes feel like the front is firmer than it really is.
Use a dab of automotive touch-up paint or Sharpie to mark the positions of the clip-ons. That will make things a whole lot easier to get back in place.
As for HSC, I put a fairly large bleed in your valves. I would not recommend going any larger. You can try a slightly lighter oil. I put in Silkolene RSF Pro 5wt with a viscosity of 26.7 cSt. The next lighter fluid I recommend would be Maxima Racing Shock Fluid 5wt with a viscosity of 21.0 cSt. You'll have to tweak your rebound about a 1/4 turn and you won't have quite as much LSC (anti-dive) if you do this.
Remember, there's some tradeoff with suspension. Without spending LOTS of money it'll be difficult to have both comfort and control.
Check your shock settings. A hard hit in the rear can sometimes feel like the front is firmer than it really is.
I actually used a center punch on the 4-way clip-ons that lines up with one side of the bolt-gap in the top clamp for alignment (as well as Sharpie dots for the 3 other adjustments); its just a PITA because I have to loosen the top & triple clamp bolts and slide the tubes down in order to get the clip-ons off because the hoses do not have enough slack to get the clip-ons off otherwise; and then there is the issue of how to support the clip-ons when they are off with the fairing still on. All the while with the bike up on a lift to keep the forks up to adjust the bearings. I can use my PitBull front stand until I'm ready to adjust so the bikes is only on the lift a minimal amount of time but still a PITA. Do you think being a bit too snug will damage the bearings any? I checked with a digital "fish scale" the effort to pull the forks off center per the manual and am at least double the 3~4# spec (though last time I checked the clip-ons, cables & hoses etc were installed which causes “drag” plus with the fairing on it was hard to get a straight pull. And I HATE pulling the fairing).
I'm not really complaining (more reporting) about the HSC, though I may try lighter oil when its time to do my semi-annual flush. I'll have to think about the dive trade-off but I'm a smooth braker and dive is not than big an issue. My shock I do not believe is the issue, as the front rear balance seems good and I don't have any kick-up in the rear over sharp-edged bumps (the same bumps the front is harsh on). I have my Penske 2-way set on 3 comp & about 17 rebound with sag at about 1.25"+.
I was more interested in your thoughts about whether the weave I get (and headshake when I wiggle the bars) is really caused by too tight bearings. I changed to fresh Dunlop RoadSmarts the same time I put on the revalved tubes and maybe my tire pressures (36/42) needs to be played with on this rubber. Also, I have my Penske's ride height up about +1/2" over OE and the fork tubes up +7mm in the clamps. Maybe this combo is too steep and again, the new tires may be a third factor. I think I liked my Conti Sport Attack front & Road Attack rear fitment better but it may be too soon to make a final judgement.
10-29-2009, 03:43 PM
#37
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Absolutely! I can almost guarantee the weave is caused by the bearings being too tight. There *is* a way to do this without removing the clip-ons, though it's a little ghetto...I mean "shade tree". Uhem....
Technically, you don't need to raise the front to do this, except if you're going to do the measurement part. Remove the clip-ons. If you use two towels, one on each side fairing to lay the clip-ons, so you won't scratch anything. Next loosen and remove the upper triple center nut. Now loosen the upper triple clamp bolts and remove the upper triple. The lower triple will hold the forks just fine. Now, you can either go all the way and bend the lock tabs on the washer, OR you can just get a hammer and screwdriver and tap the lower castellated nut in the counterclockwise direction about 1/8 turn. When you put everything back together it's VERY IMPORTANT that you install and tighten that large nut on the triple BEFORE you tighten the triple clamps to the forks. If you did this previously then this may be the cause of your problem, the bearings seeming too tight. This causes the lower bearing to be too tight and the upper to be too loose. Follow?
Technically, you don't need to raise the front to do this, except if you're going to do the measurement part. Remove the clip-ons. If you use two towels, one on each side fairing to lay the clip-ons, so you won't scratch anything. Next loosen and remove the upper triple center nut. Now loosen the upper triple clamp bolts and remove the upper triple. The lower triple will hold the forks just fine. Now, you can either go all the way and bend the lock tabs on the washer, OR you can just get a hammer and screwdriver and tap the lower castellated nut in the counterclockwise direction about 1/8 turn. When you put everything back together it's VERY IMPORTANT that you install and tighten that large nut on the triple BEFORE you tighten the triple clamps to the forks. If you did this previously then this may be the cause of your problem, the bearings seeming too tight. This causes the lower bearing to be too tight and the upper to be too loose. Follow?
10-29-2009, 04:07 PM
#38
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,116
Absolutely! I can almost guarantee the weave is caused by the bearings being too tight. There *is* a way to do this without removing the clip-ons, though it's a little ghetto...I mean "shade tree". Uhem....
Technically, you don't need to raise the front to do this, except if you're going to do the measurement part. Remove the clip-ons. If you use two towels, one on each side fairing to lay the clip-ons, so you won't scratch anything. Next loosen and remove the upper triple center nut. Now loosen the upper triple clamp bolts and remove the upper triple. The lower triple will hold the forks just fine. Now, you can either go all the way and bend the lock tabs on the washer, OR you can just get a hammer and screwdriver and tap the lower castellated nut in the counterclockwise direction about 1/8 turn. When you put everything back together it's VERY IMPORTANT that you install and tighten that large nut on the triple BEFORE you tighten the triple clamps to the forks. If you did this previously then this may be the cause of your problem, the bearings seeming too tight. This causes the lower bearing to be too tight and the upper to be too loose. Follow?
Technically, you don't need to raise the front to do this, except if you're going to do the measurement part. Remove the clip-ons. If you use two towels, one on each side fairing to lay the clip-ons, so you won't scratch anything. Next loosen and remove the upper triple center nut. Now loosen the upper triple clamp bolts and remove the upper triple. The lower triple will hold the forks just fine. Now, you can either go all the way and bend the lock tabs on the washer, OR you can just get a hammer and screwdriver and tap the lower castellated nut in the counterclockwise direction about 1/8 turn. When you put everything back together it's VERY IMPORTANT that you install and tighten that large nut on the triple BEFORE you tighten the triple clamps to the forks. If you did this previously then this may be the cause of your problem, the bearings seeming too tight. This causes the lower bearing to be too tight and the upper to be too loose. Follow?
I understand what your saying. The shade tree approach is to loosen the clip-ons and raise them enough so that after you loosen just the top clamp bolts and remove the top nut you can raise the top clamp as much as needed to whack on the adjuster nut (whether you lift the lock taps is doubtful) with a punch to loosen it a bit. But as I said, I have to drop the tubes in the top & triple clamps to raise the clip-ons enough to remove them due to insufficient brake hose length. I actually made a bracket that holds the clip-ons when they are off close to the fairing. I still use rubber membrane and towels just in case (brake/clutch fluid is not paint friendly).
I also have the castle nut special socket tool. I definitely had both the top clamp and triple clamp bolts loose when I tensioned the top nut, as well as the fork brace bolts and axle nut and clamp bolts. I did use your method of "shocking" the forks and wheel into alignment by having the clamp bolts, axle nut and axle clamps loose, and then spinning the wheel and suddenly grabbing the front brake. When you use the term "triple clamp", I presume you mean the top clamp. In the case of the VTR, the top clamp is really a double-clamp because there is no bolt that tightens the hole the stem paces through. Some people refer to the lower clamp/stem assembly as a triple-tree; i.e., triple clamp on top and triple-tree below the steering head.
05-29-2012, 11:58 AM
#40
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 576
There isn't so much a "torque" spec for the bearings themselves. You want to take out all of the play and have the slightest bit of tension on the bearings but no real pressure on them. They are a tapered roller bearing so it's more of a feel type thing. The bolt for the upper tripple clamp you just want good and tight. It will have a torque spec but I don't know it off the top of my head. Could find all the info you need on this in the manual link that you can find with a search on this site.
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