Manual Chain Tensioner Issues
Thread Starter
Josh
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 278
From: Spokane, WA
Manual Chain Tensioner Issues
I am very confused, but no one has responded to either of my updates on the manual chain tensioner problems i am facing. I really wanted to get this back together this weekend. Here is my post.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=13146
Here is what i wrote.
Ok,
I have worked on this for the last 3 months. Here are recent pix of the job. I am able to get the timing mark on the crank, but the cams are not perfectly lined up. It seems that they are about 2 degrees off. Please let me know what you think, so i can fix it right now and finish this.
This shows it with the cams lined up, but the timing mark on the crank is about 2mm away.
This shows what the cams look like when the cranks timing mark is set. They are not correct. I am seriously confused.
Then later i added :
Ok, I just started taking the tensioners after talking to cilby. Here is what is going on. I have just begun to remove the tensioner and the cams are starting to slack. So i have not completed it and i have not heard a click, so i know i can just screw them back in and no harm will be done. Here are the pix.
Lobes are offset and off the valves.
Perfectly lined up!
THey are slacking
I am really concerned and confused why it isnt working as planned. Please give me any advice you have.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=13146
Here is what i wrote.
Ok,
I have worked on this for the last 3 months. Here are recent pix of the job. I am able to get the timing mark on the crank, but the cams are not perfectly lined up. It seems that they are about 2 degrees off. Please let me know what you think, so i can fix it right now and finish this.
This shows it with the cams lined up, but the timing mark on the crank is about 2mm away.
This shows what the cams look like when the cranks timing mark is set. They are not correct. I am seriously confused.
Then later i added :
Ok, I just started taking the tensioners after talking to cilby. Here is what is going on. I have just begun to remove the tensioner and the cams are starting to slack. So i have not completed it and i have not heard a click, so i know i can just screw them back in and no harm will be done. Here are the pix.
Lobes are offset and off the valves.
Perfectly lined up!
THey are slacking
I am really concerned and confused why it isnt working as planned. Please give me any advice you have.
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
Well by your pics it is kind of hard to see how you are lining things up. I use paint (as that's all I have to work with you're pic on this comp) to show where the cam timing marks should be when you have flywheel "RT" mark lined up with the index mark.
is this how you are trying to line them up?
is this how you are trying to line them up?
Thread Starter
Josh
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 278
From: Spokane, WA
Well by your pics it is kind of hard to see how you are lining things up. I use paint (as that's all I have to work with you're pic on this comp) to show where the cam timing marks should be when you have flywheel "RT" mark lined up with the index mark.
Attachment 1869
is this how you are trying to line them up?
Attachment 1869
is this how you are trying to line them up?
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
Well, That is the problem, they don't line up and cant line up. I talked with bill about this for about a half an hour. The timing marks on the cams don't match the one on the crank. When it is lined up as you just showed in your picture, the RT mark on the crank is no where to be screen. It is almost at the FT mark, but not quite. Then if i line up the crank timing mark, you get what you see above. The timing marks on the cams are no where near where they are suppose to be, they are about 180 degrees from where they need to be.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,806
From: Atlanta, GA
It's been so long since I did this I hate to give advice, but I agree that it seems like it's out of phase. But rest assured, the marks WILL line up. There's no way the marks won't line up if everything is timed correctly.
Thread Starter
Josh
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 278
From: Spokane, WA
This was a heavily modified engine before i got it, so we were guessing that the cams were swapped for performance, but the timing marks were not swapped. Something like that. I have spent months turning the damn wheel, never to find the correct setup. When i line up the cams, the timing mark is near FT not RT.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 312
I hope this helps you: the RT mark (rear cylinder timing) must be lined up in the crank view hole with the case timing mark. The RE (rear exhaust cam) and the RI (Rear intake cam) must be flush with the cylinder head and facing outward. If the RT mark is lined up but the RE and RI marks are facing inward, rotate the crank 360 degrees and realign the RT mark, the RE and RI marks should now be facing outward flush with the cylinder head. If the RE and RI marks are facing outward but not lined up flush with the cylinder head deck when viewed straight on from the side you must remove the cams and rotate them achieve alignment. For the front cylinder the FT (front cylinder timing) must be lined up in the crank view hole with the case timing mark and the FI (front intake) and FE (front exhaust) must be flush with the cylinder head and facing outward. If the marks are not lining up then remove the cams and rotate them to achieve alignment. BTW your pictures do not allow me to tell where the cam timing marks are.
Last edited by Jim TT; Jan 6, 2008 at 12:22 PM.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 312
I looked at your pics some more, your RE sprocket which should be on you exhaust cam is on your intake cam and vise versa, it looks like you are timed correctly but you will never get things to line up unless you install the sprockets properly and that is exactly what I would do. JIM
Last edited by Jim TT; Jan 6, 2008 at 12:22 PM.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,548
From: MN
that is what we ended up thinking after our phone call. I don't know if whoever built the engine just put the sprocket bolts on 180 degrees off, or I do recall on these a cheap hopup to adjust the cam timing was swapping the IN vs. EX cams and perhaps the PO did that and just kept the sprockets on. Josh says it runs fine and he hasn't changed a think about them. regardless he's at TDC on one of the strokes and can swap the tensioners and it should run the same. But for future it would be simpler to figure out what and why. The cams are stamped in/EX but you have to remove the cam holder I think.
I look at your pics some more, your RE sprocket which should be on you exhaust cam is on your intake cam and vise versa, it looks like you are timed correctly but you will never get things to line up unless you install the sprockets properly and that is exactly what I would do. JIM
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 312
As to what Cliby said: I did not even think about the cams being reversed. If it was my engine I would first determine what the starting situation is: are the cams reversed or just the sprockets and proceed from there. I have not studied the intake and exhaust timing of the stock Superhawk to have any opinion as to a swaps advisability though I am skeptical that it is if fact a sound move. I would recommend putting the components back in their stock configurations and approaching the tuning exercise (or just leave it all stock) with slotted cam sprockets and a degree wheel.There is a lot of information on cam timing and lobe center numbers you could refer to for a base line set up; a dyno can help you choose the best setup. JIM
Last edited by Jim TT; Jan 6, 2008 at 02:37 PM.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,806
From: Atlanta, GA
Swapping intake and exhaust or using exhaust for intake is a common low budget performance trick. It can work well.
The sprockets are all marked the same, so it doesn't matter at all on which cam they're installed, but they can be put on 180 degrees off. I agree with Jim that viperkiller should carefully study the manual and the factory settings. There is no way that the marks can possibly not line up if everything is put together and timed correctly.
The sprockets are all marked the same, so it doesn't matter at all on which cam they're installed, but they can be put on 180 degrees off. I agree with Jim that viperkiller should carefully study the manual and the factory settings. There is no way that the marks can possibly not line up if everything is put together and timed correctly.
Last edited by killer5280; Jan 6, 2008 at 02:03 PM.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
I remember doing the timing on your bike. The hardest part was interpreting the manual. I would guess you are either one tooth off, haven't got all the slack out of the chain, or are 180 off.
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