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Cam/Cam Chain/Tensioner woes...help!

Old 09-17-2006, 08:50 AM
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Cam/Cam Chain/Tensioner woes...help!

Need help, guys!

Here's where I am... went to replace the rear CCT first. I took off Rear Valve Cover & Timing Inspection Cap. However the frickin' Crankshaft Hole Cap on the Left Side Cover was way too tight & I ended up stripping the 10mm socket-head hole used to take it off.

Since it was fragged anyway, i tried to get it off by using WD40, a screw driver & hammer (like a drift punch). That didn't work.

Lost my focus & common sense & started messing w/ the rear CCT. Retracted the spring w/ small a screw driver. It snapped back into original position. Then I decided to try putting the Trans in 6th gear to turn the engine to RT. Got it to move a couple times, but it wasn't easy. Then it wouldn't move anymore.

Then I decided to take the Left Side Cover off to access the Crankshaft Bolt (wish I'd thought of this sooner.) The engine will not turn counter-clockwise like it should. It will move clockwise, but I don't know how far... manuals say turn it counter-clockwise so I afraid to see how far it will go clockwise.

I AM NOT A MECHANIC, obviously... but I can ride pretty good.

So tell me, it you can... where am I REALLY at? I don't want screw this up any more by barging ahead & forcing things. What can I do now to straighten this out since I can't turn my engine counter-clockwise to TDC????
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:59 AM
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Did you take the plugs out before rotating the motor? If not, you're fighting the compression of the motor. Removing them will eliminate the build up of the compression stroke and you should be able to rotate the motor without too much trouble, provided everything internally is OK.

J.
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:03 AM
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Thanks for getting back, SlowHawk.

Yeah, I took the plugs out, so we can eliminate that.
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:27 AM
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When you removed the cam chain tensioner you allowed the cam chain to jump atleast a few teeth and now your pistion is binding up on a valve. If it was running you would have flattened it but just turning it in sixth, it should be fine. YOu need to pull the valve cover and tensioner, set the cam timing and reinstall the tensioner.
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Old 09-17-2006, 10:03 AM
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OK, I have the valve cover off.

When i take the CCT off will that release the binding so i can turn the crankshaft to RT (Rear TDC)?

Also, can i just rotate the cams by hand, or do I need to remove the Camshaft Holders to take them off the Journals & move them

When it jumps teeth, is it on the Cam Gears or at the Crank Gear... or both? I'm worried that i won't be able to get the Cam Chain back on the Crank Gear if it comes off.
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:17 PM
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So Nick came over & we found out tonight that my cam chain had indeed skipped a few teeth. Took off the tensioner, lifted the chain up and turned the rear exhaust cam back where it was supposed to be.

Put a new gasket on the new tensioner & set my torque wrench for 17 lb-ft. Put a little bit of thread-lock on the bolts. Started carefully tightening each of the 2 socket head bolts a little at a time. It seemd to be taking a long time, but access was tight so i couldn't turn them very far. Kept expecting the wrench to click... the bolt really didn't seem to be getting tight.

Suddenly, "clink"... frickin' top bolt snapped off! What a sinking feeling! What have i done to deserve this! I'm thinking, "I'm screwed... I'll see you guys in the Spring."

Instead of crying or slashing my wrists (good thing Nick was there!), we decided it was no big deal cuz i was gonna win the lottery anyway, as payback. I'd already decided on an MV Agusta and an Aprilia Tuono!

We started trying to figure out who we knew who could deal with this problem (for less than a thousand bucks). Heck, i thought, maybe enough of the bolt "caught" to hold the tensioner on. Not!

Decided to take the tensioner off, so we removed the "good" bolt and got a look at the damage. Turned out that bolt was about to wring off, too.

Looked like about 1-2 mm sticking out from the cylinder head... probably not enough to grip, but nothing to lose, so give it a try. Rummaged thru all my pliers & decided to try the smallest semi-needle nose vice grips. Shocked to find they actually gripped something. Still, it was probably cross-threaded, so it wasn't going to turn.

Hmmm, strange... it seemd like it might have moved a little bit. Nah, can't be....try again...damn, this thing is moving! Turned it a little more & then tried my fingers &, whadayaknow, it came right out! And not cross-threaded.

Wow! Talk about lows & highs!

Going over to Fastenal today & get some stainless steel bolts to replace the OE stuff. Oh, and you can be sure I won't be using that torque wrench. Snug it up & go.
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Old 09-20-2006, 02:42 PM
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Glad to hear you got it out.... applying torque to anything aluminum is always a bit scary, most notably when the torque value and bolt is very small.

I had the same experience resently (stupidly) trying to apply torque to the adapter fitting I added for the carb sync in the front cyl head.... after about 1/2 turn mroe than I was expecting it to go I realized something must be wrong, I stopped and just left it... it doesn't leak, isn't loose, and I'm not about to pull it out to find out if I partially stripped the treads... Let's hope it's just fine forever!!!

J.
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Old 09-20-2006, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by L8RGYZ
Put a new gasket on the new tensioner & set my torque wrench for 17 lb-ft. Put a little bit of thread-lock on the bolts.
Glad you solved that little snafu - I'm curious what range your torque wrench has? Was it an inch-pound wrench? I think my inch pound wrench range ends at 240 in_Lb (20 ft-lbs) while my next larger wrench is 20-100 ft_lbs. It's always best to use a wrench between 1/4 and 3/4 of the full scale .... Needless to say, any bolts around 20 ft-lbs are a bit awkward since that falls out of the 'best usable range' of many wrenches....

One point I came across somewhere in a school of hard knox .... lubing the threads of a bolt (or applying thread lock) can result in over torqing a bolt. From somewhere in the past I remember that bolt torque specs are set based on overcoming the frictional forces of dry threads. When threads are oiled or treated with threadlock the torque values should be reduced .... (by 20-50%)... to achieve the same axial force. . . . . or else
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:32 AM
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Interesting stuff. I'll file that away.

Well, got the timing set, put on the CCTs, valve cover & alternator/side cover. Hooked the alternator connector back up. Still have to put on the airbox & tank.

So i thought I'd turn the key. Surprise, no electrical power...nothing. Wish I'd unhooked the battery now. Messing w/ the alternator I must have done something. Gotta check the main fuse tonite. Hope this is not too hard to track down.

My education continues...
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Old 09-26-2006, 07:13 AM
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Got all my bike problems resolved last Fri. & had a great 350mi. run to the mountains on Sat. w/ my friends. Battery just needed to be charged.

I was on pins & needles when i started it up. Afraid the timing was off & my valve train would get crunched.

Thanks to all, & especially 99Hawk, for helping me sort things out on the CCT... i probably would have been sitting home for a few weeks w/o your input.

One other thing that helped was getting on the cellphone w/ a pal while i was out in the garage looking at the topend. He refreshed my knowledge of how a 4 cycle engine valve train works. That thought process helped me understand how the crank, cam lobes, valves & piston were interacting on each stroke of the combustion cycle. Cool stuff!
Thanks again guys!
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