Technical Discussion Topics related to Technical Issues

Clutch Help

Old 06-19-2015, 02:02 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Denver Hawk is on a distinguished road
Clutch Help

Hello Everyone, I am a long time reader of this forum but have never posted before now. I am having a problem that I can't quite figure out so I am turning to you fine folks for ideas. I have a 99 Hawk with 55k miles on it. I just installed a new Barnett clutch and springs. I got everything put back together and had no resistance at the clutch lever. After bleeding at both the slave bleed valve and the banjo bolt on the MC. I have firm resistance in the clutch lever and no problems shifting into gear. My issue is that the bike will go down the road fine at small throttle openings but as soon as I try to accelerate the clutch starts slipping. I've bled the clutch system several additional times and I am still having the same problem.

Have I failed to get all of the air out of the system or is there something else that could be causing this?
Denver Hawk is offline  
Old 06-19-2015, 02:49 PM
  #2  
Banned
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
8541Hawk will become famous soon enough
What kind of oil are you running as those clutch plates don't like synthetic oils.

Did you soak the plates in oil before you installed them.

If not those two, then check for air in the clutch system.
8541Hawk is offline  
Old 06-19-2015, 03:17 PM
  #3  
Retired- but not tired!
SuperBike
 
CrankenFine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,430
CrankenFine is on a distinguished road
If you removed your clutch lever from the master cylinder at any point in the process then make sure the pin from the master cylinder piston is fully seated in the round brass pivot in the lever. (don't ask me how I know this...)
CrankenFine is offline  
Old 06-19-2015, 10:08 PM
  #4  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Denver Hawk is on a distinguished road
I did soak the clutch plates in oil and just did an oil change after the clutch replacement with Mobil 1 4T 10W-40. I'll try changing over to conventional oil and see if that helps.

I haven't removed the clutch lever but I will remember that tip if I ever do.
Denver Hawk is offline  
Old 06-20-2015, 07:22 AM
  #5  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,468
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Denver Hawk View Post
Mobil 1 4T 10W-40. I'll try changing over to conventional oil and see if that helps.
Shouldn't need to. I've used that oil forever, it's moto specific and designed to work in wet clutches.

Did you replace just the fibers or the metals too? If your stack is too thin (worn metal plates) it could cause the slippage you are experiencing.

Last edited by Wolverine; 06-20-2015 at 07:29 AM.
Wolverine is offline  
Old 06-20-2015, 08:08 AM
  #6  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Denver Hawk is on a distinguished road
I installed a complete clutch kit that included fiber discs, metal discs, and springs. The only thing it didn't include was a new clutch plate spring and spring seat. Those are the two very thin metal rings that sit behind the clutch plates.
Denver Hawk is offline  
Old 06-20-2015, 08:30 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
scottiemann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: boston
Posts: 1,252
scottiemann is on a distinguished road
Im assuming you reinstalled those, or bought new OEM ones...
scottiemann is offline  
Old 06-20-2015, 09:43 AM
  #8  
Banned
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
8541Hawk will become famous soon enough
Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
Shouldn't need to. I've used that oil forever, it's moto specific and designed to work in wet clutches.
Have you ever seen a Barrnett or EBC replacement clutch plates?

EBC states that their clutches will not work with syn oil.

While Barrnett claims there stuff will work they also say don't switch from std to syn oil after you have some wear.

So while the oil could be ok again I will stick with what I have seen which is some aftermarket clutch plate don't like syn oil, no matter what the bottles says and it could be causing an issue.

I'll just stick with the stock plates, that is if they ever need changing.....still have the original plates in mine
8541Hawk is offline  
Old 06-20-2015, 10:28 AM
  #9  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,468
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
Have you ever seen a Barrnett or EBC replacement clutch plates?
Why, yes I have. Replaced OE w/ them before and didn't have any issues to speak of, always used full syn too.


Taken directly from the Barnett website: barnettclutches.com/service_center
All Barnett wet clutches are designed to be run with synthetic or petroleum based oils. * Remember, the single best insurance you can have for your clutch and bike is to keep clean, good quality oil in it!
*There are several petroleum/synthetic blended oils that give excellent service in many motorcycle models
That being said, I personally wouldn't dump fresh M1 in this instance. YMMV

Last edited by Wolverine; 06-20-2015 at 10:30 AM.
Wolverine is offline  
Old 06-26-2015, 08:08 PM
  #10  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Denver Hawk is on a distinguished road
Thanks for all the input so far. I changed the oil to conventional Valvoline 10-40 motorcycle specific oil with no impact. I re-bled the clutch system a couple dozen times using every trick I could find by searching this forum again with no change. The clutch still slips with any decent size throttle opening. I was doing 30 MPH at 7K RPM in second gear.

Any other thoughts on what I may have done wrong when I installed the clutch? I am close to admitting defeat and taking it to a professional to clean up my mess.

Thanks
Denver Hawk is offline  
Old 06-26-2015, 08:32 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
SuperSport
 
thetophatflash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nooksack WA
Posts: 831
thetophatflash
I would take off the clutch cover and look for something obstructing full engagement of the plates. Debris or breakage, a piece of a shop towel? Time to go back in Doctor.
thetophatflash is offline  
Old 06-27-2015, 07:30 AM
  #12  
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
SuperBike
 
CruxGNZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brookfield, WI
Posts: 2,312
CruxGNZ is on a distinguished road
I agree with thetophatflash. You have done everything you can without pulling the engine cover off.

Look at chapter 9-12 in the manual. Make sure your clutch assembly looks like the picture below.

Name:  8ADFAD7A-FF4F-436C-9037-2020170D717E.png
Views: 17
Size:  298.6 KB
CruxGNZ is offline  
Old 06-27-2015, 12:43 PM
  #13  
Member
Squid
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: estonia,Tallinn
Posts: 42
franz125 is on a distinguished road
The only thing it didn't include was a new clutch plate spring and spring seat. Those are the two very thin metal rings that sit behind the clutch plates.
That is the probleem Put them back like Picture shows-judder spring and spring seat.
franz125 is offline  
Old 06-28-2015, 01:24 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
kenmoore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New South Wales Australia
Posts: 1,524
kenmoore is on a distinguished road
I had a similar problem when I removed the clutch whilst doing a whole lot to my engine .

Turns out I had reassembled the clutch plates wrong.

Download a manual if you don't have one and follow the instructions precisely.

Good luck!

Painful I know from first hand experience.
kenmoore is offline  
Old 07-03-2015, 01:08 PM
  #15  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Denver Hawk is on a distinguished road
Thank you everybody for the help so far.

It appears that I messed up and had the last two friction plates lined up in the shallow notch at the end of the clutch center instead of just one plate. After re-assembling the clutch discs and plates it appears things are working properly. I will post a final resolution tomorrow after I have a chance to give it a more extended test ride.

Last edited by Denver Hawk; 07-03-2015 at 07:12 PM.
Denver Hawk is offline  
Old 07-03-2015, 07:13 PM
  #16  
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
SuperBike
 
CruxGNZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brookfield, WI
Posts: 2,312
CruxGNZ is on a distinguished road
I installed mine according to the picture and have had zero problems.
CruxGNZ is offline  
Old 07-04-2015, 04:19 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
SuperSport
 
thetophatflash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nooksack WA
Posts: 831
thetophatflash
After working in tool and equipment repair for almost 25 years, I learned that if it didn't work as expected after the proper procedure and parts , I was probably responsible. The ability to question all facets of a repair, including your hands-on contribution can be invaluable in the post repair world of "why don't it work, I fixed it?"
thetophatflash is offline  
Old 07-10-2015, 12:35 AM
  #18  
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
 
Tweety's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Tweety is on a distinguished road
Well... It pains me to admit it... But like thetophatflash said... 9 times out of 10 when things didn't work as expected when I'm wrenching, suppressed and highly classified evidence points to a single culprit... And it ain't the nut holding things in place that gets the blame, but the one holding the tools...
Tweety is offline  
Old 07-11-2015, 11:45 AM
  #19  
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6
Denver Hawk is on a distinguished road
I can now verify that the problem with my clutch install was all my fault. Everything is working perfectly now that I have installed the plates in the correct spot.
Denver Hawk is offline  
Old 06-01-2016, 06:34 PM
  #20  
Junior Member
Squid
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1
Jayde DuFresne is on a distinguished road
Hello, may I ask a question somewhat related? I'm new to the forum. My clutch was acting funny, so I pulled the slave cover off and replaced the paper gasket. We bled it, and it is not engaging whatsoever. I cannot start it without jumping it, and I cannot shift it without it slamming into first. Any help would be greatly appreciated :-)
Jayde DuFresne is offline  
Old 06-01-2016, 07:00 PM
  #21  
That one guy
Back Marker
 
Meier Link's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Broken Arrow
Posts: 225
Meier Link is on a distinguished road
Bleed the system again.

My experience is if you are only using the stock bleed port at the slave then it can and will be a pain in the ***. I recommend either adding a secondary bleed at the master or use a vacuum bleeder at the slave to ensure a proper bleed.

The arc coming off the master makes it hard to bleed the system properly if you are using the bottle method.
Meier Link is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rafbo
Technical Discussion
1
07-16-2011 10:24 AM
patience
Motorcycle News
7
04-13-2010 10:31 AM
acarp
Classifieds
0
09-20-2009 11:14 PM
mattvdsande
General Discussion
8
03-16-2009 11:12 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Clutch Help


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.