APE cct install
03-20-2011, 06:51 PM
#1
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Squid
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APE cct install question
I put in my APE cct's today after carefully reading the accumulated wisdom of this site, in particular, calitoz step by step instructions. Everything went smoothly, everything is back together with no extra parts, stripped bolts or such.
After install, it started and ran fine, no issues. I then went for a ride of about 8 miles. Now, on start-up, I can hear a quick noise that sounds like a table sliding on a floor. It doesn't even last a second, then it's gone. I can't hear any timing chain clatter and it runs normally.
I found the "adjustment" portion of the instructions a bit vague. I tightened the cct's to about finger tight +/- an eighth of a turn. My guess would be the noise I'm hearing is from over tightening the cct's, but that's just my guess.
Does anyone have any ideas for me?
After install, it started and ran fine, no issues. I then went for a ride of about 8 miles. Now, on start-up, I can hear a quick noise that sounds like a table sliding on a floor. It doesn't even last a second, then it's gone. I can't hear any timing chain clatter and it runs normally.
I found the "adjustment" portion of the instructions a bit vague. I tightened the cct's to about finger tight +/- an eighth of a turn. My guess would be the noise I'm hearing is from over tightening the cct's, but that's just my guess.
Does anyone have any ideas for me?
Last edited by SloBlue; 03-20-2011 at 07:24 PM.
03-21-2011, 06:58 AM
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03-21-2011, 03:40 PM
#8
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Looking at the instructions on APE, which I hadn't seen before now, they seem more worried about the tensioner being over-tight than over-loose. I backed out both tensioners exactly a quarter of an inch and tightened the rear. I'll have to wait till I have time to pull the tank and the air box before I can reach the front lock nut.
It seems to me that if APE recommends a quarter to three eighths inch chain play, finger tight on the chain and then back off 1/4 inch by measuring the tensioner bolt should be about right.
I wont get to it until Friday, so SOMEONE PLEASE STOP ME IF I'M ABOUT TO SCREW UP!
Thanks for the input everyone.
It seems to me that if APE recommends a quarter to three eighths inch chain play, finger tight on the chain and then back off 1/4 inch by measuring the tensioner bolt should be about right.
I wont get to it until Friday, so SOMEONE PLEASE STOP ME IF I'M ABOUT TO SCREW UP!
Thanks for the input everyone.
03-21-2011, 04:43 PM
#10
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Squid
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Odds are, you'll be too tight at first (better than too loose). My finger tight was waaaaayy too tight. I must have gorilla grip! Don't forget to adjust the idle speed and maybe sync the carbs. Mine was out, but that might have been for other reasons.
03-21-2011, 05:08 PM
#11
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It scares me when people say finger "tight". It shouldn't be tight. Just screw it in until you feel a little tension, then back it up 1/4 turn (not 1/4 inch).
My dog just **** on my foot as I was typing this. WTF?
My dog just **** on my foot as I was typing this. WTF?
Last edited by evines; 03-21-2011 at 05:09 PM. Reason: dog shit
03-21-2011, 05:31 PM
#12
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03-21-2011, 05:38 PM
#13
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That's my issue, APE says when it begins to push on chain, stop and back off 1/4 turn. That seemed way too loose to me. I had the valve cover off and was watching the chain while I adjusted the rear the first time.
03-21-2011, 05:57 PM
#14
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It only needs to be tight enough to prevent jumping a tooth. Hindsight... would have been a good idea to see how far the Honda CCT was pushing the chain before it was removed (I thought of it too late too). On another note, you can adjust the front CCT without removing the air box, etc. You'll need the engine warmed up and running to get the final adjustment anyway.
03-22-2011, 08:32 AM
#15
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+1.
The chain will be loose if done correctly. You should be able to pull the chain down half-way between the cam sprockets about 1/4 inch if the CCT is installed correctly. You might even hear the chain rattling some when it's cold (as the chain vibrates against the CCT), but the rattle should go away once it's warmed up. If you ALWAYS hear rattling, then that's too loose.
APE says when it begins to push on chain, stop and back off 1/4 turn. That seemed way too loose to me. I had the valve cover off and was watching the chain while I adjusted the rear the first time.
03-22-2011, 03:07 PM
#16
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The chain will be loose if done correctly. You should be able to pull the chain down half-way between the cam sprockets about 1/4 inch if the CCT is installed correctly. You might even hear the chain rattling some when it's cold (as the chain vibrates against the CCT), but the rattle should go away once it's warmed up. If you ALWAYS hear rattling, then that's too loose.
I think you know your stuff. I called APE today and your information is accurate. Thank you very much.
While I had my valve cover off and the rear cylinder at TDC, I stuck a feeler gauge under my cam lobes and checked the clearance. Honda recommends valve clearances be checked at 12,000 and I'm not quite there yet. But my valves were a about .003 too tight. Honda recommends not more than +/- .001, so, I'm going to take it to the only mechanic that I will let near my SH, Bart at Faster Motorsports in Denver. He really knows Super Hawks and I very highly recommend him. I'm just going to let him set the cct's as part of the valve adjustment. That way, I'll sleep better knowing it's right.
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03-28-2011, 05:50 PM
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09-08-2013, 02:09 AM
#19
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What if..
Whats the result if they are too tight? Can it cause any damage? I bon mean like torqued down Nm tight just not backed off that 1/4 turn.
I just installed mine and everything went fine but im not hearing anything on crank, no rattle no nothing. It turns over fine and runs smooth as.
Engine was semi warm when i installed as I ran the bike to a friends place to do the install job so was up to operating temp before I started.
I just installed mine and everything went fine but im not hearing anything on crank, no rattle no nothing. It turns over fine and runs smooth as.
Engine was semi warm when i installed as I ran the bike to a friends place to do the install job so was up to operating temp before I started.
Last edited by Blackbetty; 09-08-2013 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Cos everyone loves pics....
09-08-2013, 02:30 AM
#20
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If they are too tight then there'll be a squeal, if too loose there'll be a rattle.
Done about right it'll slightly rattle from cold but noise will go once warmed up.
Are you saying you tightened them up without backing them out 1/4 - 1/8?
Potentially damage will result to cams if done too tight. Did you remember to use thread lock to stop any oil leaks from the tensioner bolt and to doubly ensure the lock nut can't undo?
Done about right it'll slightly rattle from cold but noise will go once warmed up.
Are you saying you tightened them up without backing them out 1/4 - 1/8?
Potentially damage will result to cams if done too tight. Did you remember to use thread lock to stop any oil leaks from the tensioner bolt and to doubly ensure the lock nut can't undo?
09-08-2013, 03:42 AM
#21
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New Si unit: FNm (Finger Newton meters) Measure or torque
If they are too tight then there'll be a squeal, if too loose there'll be a rattle.
Done about right it'll slightly rattle from cold but noise will go once warmed up.
Are you saying you tightened them up without backing them out 1/4 - 1/8?
Potentially damage will result to cams if done too tight. Did you remember to use thread lock to stop any oil leaks from the tensioner bolt and to doubly ensure the lock nut can't undo?
Done about right it'll slightly rattle from cold but noise will go once warmed up.
Are you saying you tightened them up without backing them out 1/4 - 1/8?
Potentially damage will result to cams if done too tight. Did you remember to use thread lock to stop any oil leaks from the tensioner bolt and to doubly ensure the lock nut can't undo?
Yep, Install was done with lock-tight on everything.
I backed them out the 1/4 turn from my finger tight and locked everything up solid.. Was just waiting to hear some kind of mechanical change in note when started. Instead, nothing.. well actually a reduction in general engine noise but no squeal or rattle on initial crank. Just sat there idling like the beautiful beast she is..
I'll prob have to wait till everything is dead cold and listen then.
I just think its somewhat subjective for an engineering solution to specify 'finger tight' for anything.. I realise the actual pressure these are designed to provide is 'light' (another subjective quantity). There's just something about a torque wrench that gives assurances in these instances.
I must admit I did put a spanner on the nut after achieving 'finger tight' just to see how that 'felt' at then end of a mechanical advantage tool before backing out the 1/4.
09-08-2013, 06:19 AM
#22
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I just think its somewhat subjective for an engineering solution to specify 'finger tight' for anything.. I realise the actual pressure these are designed to provide is 'light' (another subjective quantity). There's just something about a torque wrench that gives assurances in these instances..
FWIW mine have never rattled, and I'm on the loose end of that specification. They may be slightly tighter than a track mechanic would end up at, but I'm fairly confident they aren't causing damage.
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