avramd

Hey everyone,

Ok, I have diligently cleaned my carbs, replaced a cracked float and a jammed float valve. They were seriously fouled, btw,

But she still won't start. Now I've already researched the standard list of common screw-ups:

* I have attached the *correct* vacuum hose to my petcock
* my petcock is open (100% counterclockwise)
* yes the ignition kill switch is off
* yes the choke is on

The big difference now is that I have gotten it to fire a few times. Every once in a while I'll get 3-4 puffs, but not enough to keep it going.

I would *like* to check my plugs for wet/fouled - but I can't... I can't find a plug wrench that is both big enough and small enough. Sadly my bike's toolkit doesn't seem to have one. I got an 18mm socket from the h/w store (an actual plug wrench actually), and it just doesn't fit down there into the channel.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance ;-)

killer5280

I think Motion Pro makes a socket that will work for the Super Hawk. There is one in the OEM toolkit, but it sounds like yours is missing. Spark plugs would have been the first thing I changed and that's certainly the next logical step.

Mr Toad

It's tough to do basic tasks like a plug chop without the proper tools. I bought an OEM toolkit for a CBR for about $15 off of Ebay for the spark plug tool - it has to be thin wall, a socket is too large.

Once you determine you are getting spark, you can move on to other possibilities. Of yeah, get a Haynes manual off Ebay as well.

Good luck.

Just_Nick

My 18mm socket fits just fine, not an actual spark plug wrench. It just has to be long and thin.
Have you made sure than your vacuum line is not damaged? Have you made sure it is connected at the cylinder?
And are you positive, as in traced it to the cylinder, that you have hooked up the correct line to the petcock? You could have connected a vent hose.

skokievtr

U can disconnect each plug wire and fit another plug into it and ground it just to check ur getting spark until u get a plug socket

R U sure you have the carbs installed correctly, including the enricheners installed right and their cables & connector fitted properly? Also, the airbox & all hoses installed & tight? Have u opened the float bowl drain screws (put a length of 3/16" clear hose from the float bowl drain spigot to a bottle) to be sure gas is in the carbs? Is the petcock on? Carb breather hoses routed right? Tank breather hose routed correctly (can cause vacuum lock)? carb vacuum diaphragms (attached to slide with needles aligned) & cap installed properly? All jets & emulsion tube installed? Floats at proper level? Float valves installed right? Fuel screws set at about 2.25 turns out with spring & o-ring on screws? And there is more that could be wrong or not adjusted properly...

avramd

I did try an external spark plug on each wire and got spark on both.

The vacuum hose to the petcock is correct, it goes to the cylinder. I don't know for sure that the hose itself is good though. I'll try draining the
float bowls to make sure there is actually fuel in the.

Regarding the chokes, no, I am not sure that I have them installed correctly. The Haynes manual doesn't say anything special about putting them in. I basically just put the needle into the opening and then threaded the nut in. The metal elbow that goes into the collar can pull out a little ways, I just shoved it in as far as it would go and then slid the boot onto it. Truth is I don't really have much confidence that I put them in right.

Carb breather hose routing - there's not much to this is there? they just go along the side then through the brackets & sit next to each other, right?

Yes, petcock is on.

Vacuum diaphragms - I think they are on good. Tricky operation, and you can't really see whether you've done it right or not. The caps seemed to seat evenly all the way around before I put the screws in though.

avramd

I opened the float bowl drain valves, and got gas out of both of them. So that tells us that the vacuum hose to the petcock is good and hooked up correctly, right?

Btw, this bike has only 950 miles on it - the main theory as to why it wouldn't start is that it had been sitting for almost two years w/out being stabilized or drained.

Does it make sense that my plugs would be fouled?

I'm leaning more towards the idea that I didn't hook up the enrichers correctly after reinstalling the carb. Since we know the carbs are getting fuel, the only remaining reasons we wouldn't be getting fire is that the cylinders aren't getting fuel even though the carbs have it. So that just leaves the choke/enrichers and the pilot jet, right?

8541Hawk

Also if the bowls are empty it will take a while just cranking the engine to get enough fuel in the bowls to do anything.

Put a hose on the vacuum petcock and either use a might-vac or just suck on it to pull a vacuum. Hold it for 10 sec. or so and then try to start it again.

avramd

Ok, I think I just found something. Is there supposed to be a straight air path through the pilot jets, from the screwdriver slot? The ones I just cleaned did not have that - air could flow from the side-ports to the tip, but not from the screwdriver slot to anywhere.

Sorry if that seems obvious, this is my first time rebuilding a carb, and it looked to me like there was a port inside the pilot vent's channel that fed it air from the main jet, so I didn't think it also needed to get air from its own barrel.

avramd

Ok, major progress... and a setback.

I have a donor carburetor pair and I checked out the pilot jets from them. You could see a ***** of light through them down the barrel. After some cleaning and jet-spraying carb cleaner and air through them, you could clearly see a distinct disc of light through them. So far no amount of cleaning on my original pilots yielded that.

So, I swapped these in, and after a lot of fussing and struggling, I got it started! It won't idle while cold yet - I could simply need to adjust the idle position - but that could very well be because of the setback, which is...

When putting the carbs back on this time, I overtightened the front enricher nut, not realizing it was plastic, and snapped it's barrel off. So, when I was starting it, this enricher was not airtight.

I haven't even read up yet on how to replace this, but I have a feeling it is going to be the whole cable assembly. A quick look at it didn't seem as though this was something that is meant to be serviceable.

Anyway, YAY!!! It actually started and fired for a good 10 seconds at 1500 rpms (with a little throttle), and - most importantly - without the starter.

Off to research repairing or replacing choke parts *sigh*. Why to I get the feeling I'm goinng to be facing another backordered part followed by a used/ebay part search...

Thanks everyone for paying attention to a newbie and helping me think this through.

lazn

Glad you are making progress.. The carbs is one area that I have not delved into so I haven't had much useful to add. But I will add some encouragement!

Mr Toad

Glad you got it sorted - almost. You're not the first to break that fitting. It pays to do your research on this forum. 99% of the time someone has already gone through and fixed the issue you happen to be working on.

Hawkrider

Avram,

Your float and choke cables went out today express overnight. Email sent with request for payment.

avramd

Hey Everyone, Just wanted to thank you all for your help and thinking, and especially all the people out there who probably will never see this thread but who posted something or other related somewhere in their lives that helped me figure this thing out.

I now officially have a wonderfully running - magnificently even - 2003 Super Hawk with 967 miles on it.

Once I fixed the broken front cylinder choke nut and put it back together correctly (which was not the first or even second time mind you), and backed off the throttle idle level screw, it ran beautifully.

So, all together, this was the story: 1) Carbs were heavily varnished from over a year of sitting w/ the previous owner 2) Front float valve was actually seized - looked more like corrosion than varnishing, blue-ish green in color. This made me break the valve holder clips off the float when I tried to take the float out. 3) Pilot jets were so fouled from sitting that there was not a clear path through the barrel - basically were airtight on the float chamber side.

Before fixing 1 & 2, bike would not fire at all. After cleaning the carbs & jets, replacing the float & float vale, and grinding corrosion out of the float valve seat, it would occasionally fire 2-3 times in a 15-second starting interval, bt usually not. After replacing the pilot jets, it runs fine now.

Here's a little video of my friend gunning the engine the first time as part of the coolant refill procedure. You can hear the micron exhausts.

My hawk's first proper run

Now, I have to say, this bike is magnificent. It is too loud w/ the micron exhausts (ok, it sounds awesome - but I won't get away with that in my town, factory pipes are already on the way). My ride tonight was so much fun I kept riding until I was starving, and still didn't want to stop.

skokievtr

"grinding corrosion out of float valve seat" is a no-no in the long run & float valve "needle" maybe should also be replaced

Microns usually take a DB killer or baffle to quiet it down with minimal loss of flow...

VTRsurfer

Congratulations for sticking with it. R & R of the carbs is a pain in the butt in my opinion. I've learned from lots of experience and some mistakes to go reeeal easy on any plastic fittings.

avramd

First, I did replace both float valves.

Second, I knew it was questionable to take something hard and rough to the float valve seat, but it's not a replaceable part, so it was either that or whole new carburetor. Anyway, I didn't really grind it - I used a fine grinding bit by finger and gently slid it up & down in the channel until it was smooth.

I figured it's not a jet, it doesn't need to be micron-perfect, all that matters is that the valve doesn't jam and that fuel can flow into the bowl at approximately the intended rate. The whole concept of a float bowl & valve is to deliberately be pretty imprecise and flexible, right?

stebbdt