Latest OCMD project: modded airbox lid
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MotoGP
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From: Montreal
as stated earlier, FP is obviously richer (mind you, it is made to work with the stock, ie longer and stiffer, slide spring, so the needle will sit lower for any given throttle position). FWIW, in discussing jet kits with Roger D, he informed me that despite numerous attempts he was never able to get rid of a lingering mid-range rich condition with the FP needles (hence his preference for the DJ needles)......
Last edited by mikstr; Mar 21, 2015 at 09:01 AM.
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SuperSport
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From: Auckland, new Zealand
Bottom one is DJ (6 clip options), top is FP (5 positions) (have both of them on hand......)
as stated earlier, FP is obviously richer (mind you, it is made to work with the stock, ie longer and stiffer, slide spring, so the needle will sit lower for any given throttle position). FWIW, in discussing jet kits with Roger D, he informed me that despite numerous attempts he was never able to get rid of a lingering mid-range rich condition with the FP needles (hence his preference for the DJ needles)......
as stated earlier, FP is obviously richer (mind you, it is made to work with the stock, ie longer and stiffer, slide spring, so the needle will sit lower for any given throttle position). FWIW, in discussing jet kits with Roger D, he informed me that despite numerous attempts he was never able to get rid of a lingering mid-range rich condition with the FP needles (hence his preference for the DJ needles)......
Once I get time I will try more shim on my needles but with being stock I think Im limited.
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
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Posts: 2,312
From: Brookfield, WI
Now you guys got me curious. I'm going to swap needles. Won't be able to ride untill Wednesday though, since we are supposed to get 1-3" of the white stuff tonight and below freezing weather the next few days.
I'll take a picture of the three needles, stock, FP & DJ next to each other.
I can't wait to see what the A/F looks like when Spoot hits up the dyno with his FIL mod.
I'll take a picture of the three needles, stock, FP & DJ next to each other.
I can't wait to see what the A/F looks like when Spoot hits up the dyno with his FIL mod.
Last edited by CruxGNZ; Mar 22, 2015 at 01:25 PM.
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Now you guys got me curious. I'm going to swap needles. Won't be able to ride untill Wednesday though, since we are supposed to get 1-3" of the white stuff tonight and below freezing weather the next few days.
I'll take a picture of the three needles, stock, FP & DJ next to each other.
I'll take a picture of the three needles, stock, FP & DJ next to each other.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,994
From: Bisbee, AZ
Been running the bike all this week. Screw the salt & sand on the roads. Washing the bike only takes an hour anyways. It's worth it! I've been changing jets along the way. I installed a Flow Commander and WOW does this make tuning a crap ton easier! Man, is this a fantastic product. For those of you on the fence, BUY IT. I would almost go as far as saying you should buy this to tune in your FIL mod. It's $160, but totally worth it.
Right now, my settings are:
Front
Main 205
Pilot 48
Fuel screw 2 turns out
Rear
Main 210
Pilot 48
Fuel screw 2.25 turns out
Flow Commander 1.5 turns out.
The power keeps getting better up top. Fuel economy is getting better as well. It seems like it would get worse using more fuel, but I am getting more and more miles out of a tank of fuel. I keep having to recalibrate my Veypor gauge.
Trying to tune in the low end is the issue for me. It is really crisp, but I feel it can be better. I might go down to 45 pilots if these 48's don't work out.
Spoot, if you are reading this, your FIL mod lid will be finished next week. I have Monday-Wednesday off of work, so it will be done and painted then man.
Right now, my settings are:
Front
Main 205
Pilot 48
Fuel screw 2 turns out
Rear
Main 210
Pilot 48
Fuel screw 2.25 turns out
Flow Commander 1.5 turns out.
The power keeps getting better up top. Fuel economy is getting better as well. It seems like it would get worse using more fuel, but I am getting more and more miles out of a tank of fuel. I keep having to recalibrate my Veypor gauge.
Trying to tune in the low end is the issue for me. It is really crisp, but I feel it can be better. I might go down to 45 pilots if these 48's don't work out.
Spoot, if you are reading this, your FIL mod lid will be finished next week. I have Monday-Wednesday off of work, so it will be done and painted then man.
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,312
From: Brookfield, WI
I did ride again after that and am currently at 1 turn out and it keeps getting better.
I switched to 45 pilots and want to take the bike out again and turn the FC in another half turn to see what happens, but we just got ~1" of snow and about 2" of sand/salt dumped on the roads
And of course, the weather is supposed to be in the 50's on Wednesday. Depending on the road conditions, I might take it out on Wednesday.
Last edited by CruxGNZ; Mar 23, 2015 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Schpelling
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With the Flo-Commander, I started at three turns out. The instructions said to turn it in one full turn and see if the bike got better or worse and it better. I did try turn it out (making it leaner) four turns, and it got slightly worse. So, throughout that ride, I ended up at 1.5 turns out.
I did ride again after that and am currently at 1 turn out and it keeps getting better.
I switched to 45 pilots and want to take the bike out again and turn the FC in another half turn to see what happens, but we just got ~1" of snow and about 2" of sand/salt dumped on the roads And of course, the weather is supposed to be in the 50's on Wednesday. Depending on the road conditions, I might take it out on Wednesday.
I did ride again after that and am currently at 1 turn out and it keeps getting better.
I switched to 45 pilots and want to take the bike out again and turn the FC in another half turn to see what happens, but we just got ~1" of snow and about 2" of sand/salt dumped on the roads
And of course, the weather is supposed to be in the 50's on Wednesday. Depending on the road conditions, I might take it out on Wednesday.
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,312
From: Brookfield, WI
As I said, here is the three needles next to each other. Sorry for the condition of the stock needle (yes, the body of the needle is bent). This was the best of the two needles from my "spare parts" carbs. At least you can see the taper and design of each needle.
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,312
From: Brookfield, WI
I put in 42 pilots today and the bike just did not like them. Way to lean. For my setup, 45's are the best. It honestly felt like the 45's were spot on, but I just wanted to keep going untill I found I was too lean. Now I know what is too rich and what is too lean. 45's are the sweet spot for my FIL mod. So, switching back to the 45 pilots. I will post up my exact carb settings when I get the 45's dialed back in.
Last edited by CruxGNZ; Apr 12, 2015 at 04:32 PM.
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Thanks man. That answers a lot of questions for me. And why I have trouble getting the mid right.
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
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Posts: 2,312
From: Brookfield, WI
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Though it does sound like you guys actually might need the unobtainium HRC "rich" needles which give a fatter mid-range and were for the ram air set up.
Carry On
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From: Auckland, new Zealand
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Joined: Apr 2014
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From: Auckland, new Zealand
Ive been chasing a problem with my jetting. When holding the throttle at say half at anywhere between 5k and 8k she seems to lean out and get a flat spot which comes right with more throttle. Lean the main out and it gets worse. Starting to wonder if I need to go back to 50 idles to support the needle in this condition.
Ive not been working on it much recently or riding it as I got a daily runabout bike. Starting back on it now as Im missing it.
Another thing is i made a mistake on my main jet sizing. I was under the impression the Kehin sizing's were metric bore sizes, they are not. Oops. So my mains are huge....
Ive not been working on it much recently or riding it as I got a daily runabout bike. Starting back on it now as Im missing it.
Another thing is i made a mistake on my main jet sizing. I was under the impression the Kehin sizing's were metric bore sizes, they are not. Oops. So my mains are huge....
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Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,312
From: Brookfield, WI
Need some help tuning. I have an issue that I cannot get rid of. While shifting during 50%-75% throttle, I get a hesitation or a bog. Like, not enough fuel. Shifting at low RPM's or at redline, I have no issues. Just mid throttle problems. How do I fix this?
Settings are as follows:
Mains- 205F & 210R
DJ needle set on highest position (6?) also have DJ springs
Pilots 45
Fuel screws (turns out) 2F & 2.25R
I have fantastic and unbelievable top end. I am just struggling with tuning the mid range RPM's during 50%-75% throttle. Do I change to the Factory Pro needle? Would this help?
One thing I noticed today, was when I was getting off the highway and down shifting, I couldn't rev the engine when going from 6th gear to 5th gear. It was just flat and unresponsive. There was a pop from the exhaust and then I was able to match the revs on down to first gear. So, something is amiss here.
Any ideas guys? Another thing to note, is there is a lot of popping from the exhaust, so I am assuming I am lean. Maybe I should swap to 48 pilots. Regarding the popping from the exhaust, there are no leaks in the exhaust and no leaks on the intake.
Remember, this problem is only during shifting. Let off throttle...shift...back on throttle and I get a hesitation.
Settings are as follows:
Mains- 205F & 210R
DJ needle set on highest position (6?) also have DJ springs
Pilots 45
Fuel screws (turns out) 2F & 2.25R
I have fantastic and unbelievable top end. I am just struggling with tuning the mid range RPM's during 50%-75% throttle. Do I change to the Factory Pro needle? Would this help?
One thing I noticed today, was when I was getting off the highway and down shifting, I couldn't rev the engine when going from 6th gear to 5th gear. It was just flat and unresponsive. There was a pop from the exhaust and then I was able to match the revs on down to first gear. So, something is amiss here.
Any ideas guys? Another thing to note, is there is a lot of popping from the exhaust, so I am assuming I am lean. Maybe I should swap to 48 pilots. Regarding the popping from the exhaust, there are no leaks in the exhaust and no leaks on the intake.
Remember, this problem is only during shifting. Let off throttle...shift...back on throttle and I get a hesitation.
Last edited by CruxGNZ; May 14, 2015 at 11:02 AM.
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SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
Need some help tuning. I have an issue that I cannot get rid of. While shifting during 50%-75% throttle, I get a hesitation or a bog. Like, not enough fuel. Shifting at low RPM's or at redline, I have no issues. Just mid throttle problems. How do I fix this?
Settings are as follows:
Mains- 205F & 210R
DJ needle set on highest position (6?) also have DJ springs
Pilots 45
Fuel screws (turns out) 2F & 2.25R
I have fantastic and unbelievable top end. I am just struggling with tuning the mid range RPM's during 50%-75% throttle. Do I change to the Factory Pro needle? Would this help?
One thing I noticed today, was when I was getting off the highway and down shifting, I couldn't rev the engine when going from 6th gear to 5th gear. It was just flat and unresponsive. There was a pop from the exhaust and then I was able to match the revs on down to first gear. So, something is amiss here.
Any ideas guys? Another thing to note, is there is a lot of popping from the exhaust, so I am assuming I am lean. Maybe I should swap to 48 pilots. Regarding the popping from the exhaust, there are no leaks in the exhaust and no leaks on the intake.
Remember, this problem is only during shifting. Let off throttle...shift...back on throttle and I get a hesitation.
Settings are as follows:
Mains- 205F & 210R
DJ needle set on highest position (6?) also have DJ springs
Pilots 45
Fuel screws (turns out) 2F & 2.25R
I have fantastic and unbelievable top end. I am just struggling with tuning the mid range RPM's during 50%-75% throttle. Do I change to the Factory Pro needle? Would this help?
One thing I noticed today, was when I was getting off the highway and down shifting, I couldn't rev the engine when going from 6th gear to 5th gear. It was just flat and unresponsive. There was a pop from the exhaust and then I was able to match the revs on down to first gear. So, something is amiss here.
Any ideas guys? Another thing to note, is there is a lot of popping from the exhaust, so I am assuming I am lean. Maybe I should swap to 48 pilots. Regarding the popping from the exhaust, there are no leaks in the exhaust and no leaks on the intake.
Remember, this problem is only during shifting. Let off throttle...shift...back on throttle and I get a hesitation.
My thoughts are Im going to try 52 pilots. My thinking is the big pilots support the needles at that holding the throttle period. Im finding mid turn on the track Im getting the problem. That is not happy fun times. My top end is fantastic.
Hope to get some time to do it this weekend after I refit the insulation under the house that the dog ripped down. Sigh.
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,312
From: Brookfield, WI
I will check my Veypor Gauge in a minute. It is getting better mpg's than when I had the stock setup. Will update when I look.
EDIT: I am currently getting 39 miles per gallon. However, this will change as I am still dialing in this FIL mod.
Spokes, I had pilots from 50 all the way down to 42 and now started coming back up. Im at 45 right now and was thinking of trying 48 again. Coming full circle.
I was thinking, maybe the problem is the slides. Maybe they're opening to soon or not soon enough. Not sure yet. I have Dr. Honda stacks and only one hole in the slides.
Besides this litte issue we seem to be having, I really like the FIL mod. I like getting the RPM's up to 3,500 and cracking open the throttle as fast as I can, and the engine reacts instantly and depending on the gear you are in, you will wheelie or just shoot forward like being shot from a cannon. I LOVE the sound it makes too
EDIT: I am currently getting 39 miles per gallon. However, this will change as I am still dialing in this FIL mod.
Spokes, I had pilots from 50 all the way down to 42 and now started coming back up. Im at 45 right now and was thinking of trying 48 again. Coming full circle.
I was thinking, maybe the problem is the slides. Maybe they're opening to soon or not soon enough. Not sure yet. I have Dr. Honda stacks and only one hole in the slides.
Besides this litte issue we seem to be having, I really like the FIL mod. I like getting the RPM's up to 3,500 and cracking open the throttle as fast as I can, and the engine reacts instantly and depending on the gear you are in, you will wheelie or just shoot forward like being shot from a cannon. I LOVE the sound it makes too
Last edited by CruxGNZ; May 14, 2015 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Smiles per gallon
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
Need some help tuning. I have an issue that I cannot get rid of. While shifting during 50%-75% throttle, I get a hesitation or a bog. Like, not enough fuel. Shifting at low RPM's or at redline, I have no issues. Just mid throttle problems. How do I fix this?
Settings are as follows:
Mains- 205F & 210R
DJ needle set on highest position (6?) also have DJ springs
Pilots 45
Fuel screws (turns out) 2F & 2.25R
I have fantastic and unbelievable top end. I am just struggling with tuning the mid range RPM's during 50%-75% throttle. Do I change to the Factory Pro needle? Would this help?
One thing I noticed today, was when I was getting off the highway and down shifting, I couldn't rev the engine when going from 6th gear to 5th gear. It was just flat and unresponsive. There was a pop from the exhaust and then I was able to match the revs on down to first gear. So, something is amiss here.
Any ideas guys? Another thing to note, is there is a lot of popping from the exhaust, so I am assuming I am lean. Maybe I should swap to 48 pilots. Regarding the popping from the exhaust, there are no leaks in the exhaust and no leaks on the intake.
Remember, this problem is only during shifting. Let off throttle...shift...back on throttle and I get a hesitation.
Settings are as follows:
Mains- 205F & 210R
DJ needle set on highest position (6?) also have DJ springs
Pilots 45
Fuel screws (turns out) 2F & 2.25R
I have fantastic and unbelievable top end. I am just struggling with tuning the mid range RPM's during 50%-75% throttle. Do I change to the Factory Pro needle? Would this help?
One thing I noticed today, was when I was getting off the highway and down shifting, I couldn't rev the engine when going from 6th gear to 5th gear. It was just flat and unresponsive. There was a pop from the exhaust and then I was able to match the revs on down to first gear. So, something is amiss here.
Any ideas guys? Another thing to note, is there is a lot of popping from the exhaust, so I am assuming I am lean. Maybe I should swap to 48 pilots. Regarding the popping from the exhaust, there are no leaks in the exhaust and no leaks on the intake.
Remember, this problem is only during shifting. Let off throttle...shift...back on throttle and I get a hesitation.
One major point, I stuffed up the Kehin jets being metric holes. They are not. Woops. So a 2.1 drill gives you a 230 size Kehin jet.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyspAHrMbb8
love this video
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyspAHrMbb8
love this video
love this video
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Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
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Posts: 2,312
From: Brookfield, WI
Spokes, today I swapped out my "short" Dyno Jet springs and put my stock springs back in. This seems to have fixed the problem I was having. However, I only got to ride the bike for about 10 minutes after swapping to the stock springs. But, the issue really has seem to have disappeared. I also lowered my Factory Pro needles by one clip.
EDIT: I also think you are right about the larger pilot jet. It has been so long, but I too don't think I had this issue with a larger pilot jet.
I think we are finally figuring out the tuning of this FIL mod.
EDIT: I also think you are right about the larger pilot jet. It has been so long, but I too don't think I had this issue with a larger pilot jet.
I think we are finally figuring out the tuning of this FIL mod.
Last edited by CruxGNZ; May 15, 2015 at 06:23 PM.
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SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
Spokes, today I swapped out my "short" Dyno Jet springs and put my stock springs back in. This seems to have fixed the problem I was having. However, I only got to ride the bike for about 10 minutes after swapping to the stock springs. But, the issue really has seem to have disappeared. I also lowered my Factory Pro needles by one clip.
EDIT: I also think you are right about the larger pilot jet. It has been so long, but I too don't think I had this issue with a larger pilot jet.
I think we are finally figuring out the tuning of this FIL mod.
EDIT: I also think you are right about the larger pilot jet. It has been so long, but I too don't think I had this issue with a larger pilot jet.
I think we are finally figuring out the tuning of this FIL mod.
Are your mains drilled to 2.1mm?
