any consensus re 2 into 1 exhaust setups?
11-02-2012, 09:05 AM
#61
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: boston
Posts: 1,252
As for the higher rpm punch what are you running for gearing?
Have you thought about regearing to compensate for the different torque curve characteristic? I'm sure its not much and I believe in gearing for your riding style and riding situations rather then all around unless you need all around... just something to think about
Have you thought about regearing to compensate for the different torque curve characteristic? I'm sure its not much and I believe in gearing for your riding style and riding situations rather then all around unless you need all around... just something to think about
11-02-2012, 05:42 PM
#62
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
As for the higher rpm punch what are you running for gearing?
Have you thought about regearing to compensate for the different torque curve characteristic? I'm sure its not much and I believe in gearing for your riding style and riding situations rather then all around unless you need all around... just something to think about
Have you thought about regearing to compensate for the different torque curve characteristic? I'm sure its not much and I believe in gearing for your riding style and riding situations rather then all around unless you need all around... just something to think about
The short ride i referenced in the last post was to see how it ran with Hawk's carb set up and it seems to run good as best i could tell under the adverse circumstances. I just put new tires on tonight, even though they may have had another 10 miles on em haha, so this weekend i should be able to do a couple hundred miles and run it up through the gears.
I know that the 2 into 1 caused the diff in engine performance and i'm hoping that I get it back or better with the different carb set up. We'll see shortly.
11-02-2012, 10:41 PM
#63
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: boston
Posts: 1,252
Well good luck ill be keeping an eye out because I just got a brand new Shorty can off a Guy on another forum for 65 shipped and I'm considering going this route to save weight on the rebuild but I can always get a second can to match for 130 so either way it'll be on the cheap end
11-03-2012, 07:21 AM
#64
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
Well good luck ill be keeping an eye out because I just got a brand new Shorty can off a Guy on another forum for 65 shipped and I'm considering going this route to save weight on the rebuild but I can always get a second can to match for 130 so either way it'll be on the cheap end
The Devil muffler given to me is large( I'm trying to determine what IL4 it's off of-think cbr 600 or 1000) and is deep and throaty w/o being overly loud.
11-03-2012, 03:03 PM
#65
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: boston
Posts: 1,252
I'm not concerned with loudness or sound quality... my main concern is performance and weight
I plan on a naked rebuild with a lot of carbon fibre and stiffer better suspension and a stage 1 engine
I plan on a naked rebuild with a lot of carbon fibre and stiffer better suspension and a stage 1 engine
11-03-2012, 04:27 PM
#67
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
can't wait to see that custom header. I wish i would have learned to weld when i was younger and had a little more moola. But wishins for fairies huh.
11-03-2012, 04:34 PM
#68
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: boston
Posts: 1,252
I have no moola and my father in law is a welder by trade and his company just got new welders too...
He will be teaching me here and there but ill leave the header up to him to weld so I don't **** it up...
He will be teaching me here and there but ill leave the header up to him to weld so I don't **** it up...
11-03-2012, 06:07 PM
#69
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
welding can stretch your creativity to unknown bounds.You can create whatever you can imagine if you get good enough.
11-03-2012, 06:55 PM
#70
Junior Member
Squid
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7
11-03-2012, 06:56 PM
#71
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: boston
Posts: 1,252
Oh I know... I wish he had an opening(see my rant about work) but I can arc weld heavy steel good enough to get a decent bead its not pretty though and only really useful for making jigs or trailers...
I'm looking to get a AC/DC tig welder to do aluminum but those are pricey...
I'm looking to get a AC/DC tig welder to do aluminum but those are pricey...
11-13-2012, 04:02 PM
#72
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
a little feed back on my recent 2 into 1 mod.
sounds good but totally different than any 2 pipes I've heard. The best I can describe it is rapid pulse, throaty, kind like a pissed-off, 4 stroke chainsaw.
Did my friend Hawks carb mods exactly because it didn't run good at above 7000 in 5th and 6th, i.e., acceleration slowed toward the top of the rpm range in the higher gears.
Below that runs good or maybe better than previous, so I decided to try some 93 octane to see what happened. On the third tank now and this improved performance significantly in the upper ranges...Go figure. Doesn't bother me cause it's only a little over a buck per fillup. The color of the pipe seems perfect, not black, not grey, just right.
Gonna get bigger pilots and mains to see if that improves it with regular gas for my own curiosity.
I love the reduced weight on the rear(main reason for doing this) because of the improved lean-in and cornering, and it's esp noticable in quick transitions.
Definitely happy with this mod.
sounds good but totally different than any 2 pipes I've heard. The best I can describe it is rapid pulse, throaty, kind like a pissed-off, 4 stroke chainsaw.
Did my friend Hawks carb mods exactly because it didn't run good at above 7000 in 5th and 6th, i.e., acceleration slowed toward the top of the rpm range in the higher gears.
Below that runs good or maybe better than previous, so I decided to try some 93 octane to see what happened. On the third tank now and this improved performance significantly in the upper ranges...Go figure. Doesn't bother me cause it's only a little over a buck per fillup. The color of the pipe seems perfect, not black, not grey, just right.
Gonna get bigger pilots and mains to see if that improves it with regular gas for my own curiosity.
I love the reduced weight on the rear(main reason for doing this) because of the improved lean-in and cornering, and it's esp noticable in quick transitions.
Definitely happy with this mod.
11-18-2012, 06:10 PM
#73
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
Just did a couple hundred miles today(45deg chilly) and I can say unequivocally that this mod is awesome, if for nothing else but for shedding the overweight OEM sleds. If you can't tell the difference in decel, accel, lean, bump absorption, etc., I feel sorry for you. Getting rid of all that weight and replacing it with a featherlite carbon fiber, or even 2, is definitely one of the most significant improvements I've made. Transitions like a 600 now. There are naturally some other contributors for sure, but the weight reduction is significant none the less. I wish i would have weighed all that **** against the new set up when i had it all off, but like they say, or maybe just me haha, wishings for fairies.
I need to thank my friend Derek again who gave me this Devil pipe and I wish(dam fairies again ha) I would have installed it when he first offered it to me a year ago. Had this opportunity never presented itself, I know i wouldn't have even considered it and that, i know now, would have been a big mistake in terms of the vast improvement in handling alone.
Like I mentioned previously relative to engine performance, with hawk's carb set up, it runs a little stronger at the bottom and a little weaker at the high end of 5th and 6th, but 93 octane has mitigated this condition to an acceptable level. Runs better everywhere compared to 87 octane including acceptable in 5th and sixth. The pipe color is perfect too. If it never gets any better, it still runs plenty strong for me.
I ordered 50 pilots and 185 and 188 mains from Jets R Us to see what that will do with 87 octane, so I'll report on that later good or bad.
Some pics below, oh, and that helmet is an Icon Airmada, another worthwhile upgrade if anyone's looking for better aerodynamics for less of a neck workout.
I need to thank my friend Derek again who gave me this Devil pipe and I wish(dam fairies again ha) I would have installed it when he first offered it to me a year ago. Had this opportunity never presented itself, I know i wouldn't have even considered it and that, i know now, would have been a big mistake in terms of the vast improvement in handling alone.
Like I mentioned previously relative to engine performance, with hawk's carb set up, it runs a little stronger at the bottom and a little weaker at the high end of 5th and 6th, but 93 octane has mitigated this condition to an acceptable level. Runs better everywhere compared to 87 octane including acceptable in 5th and sixth. The pipe color is perfect too. If it never gets any better, it still runs plenty strong for me.
I ordered 50 pilots and 185 and 188 mains from Jets R Us to see what that will do with 87 octane, so I'll report on that later good or bad.
Some pics below, oh, and that helmet is an Icon Airmada, another worthwhile upgrade if anyone's looking for better aerodynamics for less of a neck workout.
11-18-2012, 07:02 PM
#74
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South of Live Free or Die & North of Family Guy
Posts: 1,456
Just did a couple hundred miles today(45deg chilly) and I can say unequivocally that this mod is awesome, if for nothing else but for shedding the overweight OEM sleds. If you can't tell the difference in decel, accel, lean, bump absorption, etc., I feel sorry for you. Getting rid of all that weight and replacing it with a featherlite carbon fiber, or even 2, is definitely one of the most significant improvements I've made. Transitions like a 600 now. There are naturally some other contributors for sure, but the weight reduction is significant none the less. I wish i would have weighed all that **** against the new set up when i had it all off, but like they say, or maybe just me haha, wishings for fairies.
I need to thank my friend Derek again who gave me this Devil pipe and I wish(dam fairies again ha) I would have installed it when he first offered it to me a year ago. Had this opportunity never presented itself, I know i wouldn't have even considered it and that, i know now, would have been a big mistake in terms of the vast improvement in handling alone.
Like I mentioned previously relative to engine performance, with hawk's carb set up, it runs a little stronger at the bottom and a little weaker at the high end of 5th and 6th, but 93 octane has mitigated this condition to an acceptable level. Runs better everywhere compared to 87 octane including acceptable in 5th and sixth. The pipe color is perfect too. If it never gets any better, it still runs plenty strong for me.
I ordered 50 pilots and 185 and 188 mains from Jets R Us to see what that will do with 87 octane, so I'll report on that later good or bad.
Some pics below, oh, and that helmet is an Icon Airmada, another worthwhile upgrade if anyone's looking for better aerodynamics for less of a neck workout.
I need to thank my friend Derek again who gave me this Devil pipe and I wish(dam fairies again ha) I would have installed it when he first offered it to me a year ago. Had this opportunity never presented itself, I know i wouldn't have even considered it and that, i know now, would have been a big mistake in terms of the vast improvement in handling alone.
Like I mentioned previously relative to engine performance, with hawk's carb set up, it runs a little stronger at the bottom and a little weaker at the high end of 5th and 6th, but 93 octane has mitigated this condition to an acceptable level. Runs better everywhere compared to 87 octane including acceptable in 5th and sixth. The pipe color is perfect too. If it never gets any better, it still runs plenty strong for me.
I ordered 50 pilots and 185 and 188 mains from Jets R Us to see what that will do with 87 octane, so I'll report on that later good or bad.
Some pics below, oh, and that helmet is an Icon Airmada, another worthwhile upgrade if anyone's looking for better aerodynamics for less of a neck workout.
looks sharp, but you got to do something about these rear blinkers bro'....
11-18-2012, 08:33 PM
#75
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
Probably have to go integrated but don't know about PA inspection in terms of distance side to side.
I think the looks of the pipe came out alright, but the real benefits relative to reduced weight are more than satisfactory to this rider.
11-30-2012, 05:54 PM
#76
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
12-09-2012, 08:28 PM
#77
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
Inclement weather has prevented further tweaking the 2 into 1 relative to carb jetting and setting; so far, however, it runs good enough for me and shedding all that rear end weight has altered the front/rear bias and improved the handling significantly and this makes me a happy camper.
for anyone who has or is running or contemplating a 2 into 1 exhaust, the thread below may be of interest in that it could help to explain some of the issues that affect performance relative to various exhaust configurations and, although primarily concerned with Harleys, may have implications for any of us.
RB Racing LSR 2-1 Exhaust Technology
for anyone who has or is running or contemplating a 2 into 1 exhaust, the thread below may be of interest in that it could help to explain some of the issues that affect performance relative to various exhaust configurations and, although primarily concerned with Harleys, may have implications for any of us.
RB Racing LSR 2-1 Exhaust Technology
12-09-2012, 09:42 PM
#79
Banned
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
for anyone who has or is running or contemplating a 2 into 1 exhaust, the thread below may be of interest in that it could help to explain some of the issues that affect performance relative to various exhaust configurations and, although primarily concerned with Harleys, may have implications for any of us.
RB Racing LSR 2-1 Exhaust Technology
RB Racing LSR 2-1 Exhaust Technology
The SH's 90 degree layout and 270-450 firing order has different exhaust requirements.
12-10-2012, 05:15 AM
#80
road racer v2 power
Superstock
Superstock
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: coventry england
Posts: 265
?action=view¤=2B2C8F89-0B38-4D31-B1FE-F0B36CB2343E-6040-000009C260.jpg&evt=user_media_share
Just fitted a Leo vince carbon oval can to mine
Just fitted a Leo vince carbon oval can to mine
12-10-2012, 05:23 AM
#81
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
if you think that all the principles discussed in this link are specific to a 45 deg engine configuration only, you are reading something diff than me. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I am slower than you because i admittedly can't get from 60 to 80mph in 1.5 sec, or conversely, maybe it's difficult for you to see when traveling twice the speed of sound.
12-10-2012, 05:56 PM
#82
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
that's ok. we aim to please. yeah about a mm and no melting, but i may try somethin else. That carbon is a great compared to the heat of those stainless torches which left their mark on me a couple times.
12-11-2012, 07:16 AM
#86
Senior Member
SuperBike
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South of Live Free or Die & North of Family Guy
Posts: 1,456
Lloyd, the bike looks sharp and very clean as mentioned, a show bike!
12-11-2012, 08:24 AM
#88
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: altoona, pa
Posts: 2,934
12-11-2012, 10:00 AM
#89
Banned
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
OMG! what a surprise that you would find a problem with something i post. utterly shocking!!!
if you think that all the principles discussed in this link are specific to a 45 deg engine configuration only, you are reading something diff than me. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I am slower than you because i admittedly can't get from 60 to 80mph in 1.5 sec, or conversely, maybe it's difficult for you to see when traveling twice the speed of sound.
if you think that all the principles discussed in this link are specific to a 45 deg engine configuration only, you are reading something diff than me. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I am slower than you because i admittedly can't get from 60 to 80mph in 1.5 sec, or conversely, maybe it's difficult for you to see when traveling twice the speed of sound.
Now if you would like to put on your big boy pants, we could actually have a productive discussion but I somehow doubt that will happen.
While some of the info from your link is true for the SH, a lot of it isn't.
Just to touch quickly on a few points, first the site is promoting a 2-1 or primaries into a collector. Might work well on a drag bike but when was the last time you saw that set up in a road race or street set up?
They also state that a stepped header is basically a waste of time, yet the header that has been shown to make the best bolt on power gains on a SH is..... wait for it...... a stepped header. Can you tell me why that is true if the tuning procedures are the same for both types of engines.
Also you have gone from stock mufflers to a single exhaust set up. So can you say the engine is making the same power or is your seat of the pants dyno being tricked by the weight loss?
Using the formula of every 7 pounds removed is equal to gaining 1 hp you should have picked up the equivalent of around 5hp(using approx 14lbs per side and then eliminating one side completely.)
Now the whole chopping of one side of the stock exhaust will give you a system that works as well as the stock set up discussion. Sorry I don't see it for a number of reasons.
First would be why do they come with dual exhaust to begin with? This would apply to just about ever 1000cc or larger 90 degree v-twin that revs past 8K RPM (Think Ducati, Suzuki, Honda).
All these bikes are built to a price point, so why add bits that are not needed? If a single sided system worked as well or better, why not set the bike up that way and save more than just a little $$ over the production run?
Then lets look at the stock header. Yes it has "merge collectors" like your link and also has multiple bends in the rear primary to "trick" the system into thinking the primaries are approx. the same length.
We then come to the part that most folks get wrong. when the pipe splits back into 2 the normal comment is "look at that restriction" Honda left in the pipe. What is really going on is that "restriction" is tricking the exhaust into thinking it is single sided at low RPM (that is why the right pipe stays cool at idle) and a then as the RPMs (and exhaust pressure) rise it then flows as a dual exhaust system.
So what I see on most single sided set ups is that the left pipe is removed.
Now IMHO that is the side that should be seeing the exhaust pressure at low RPM. Routing the gases to the right side has now shortened the exhaust system. Without re-timing the cams you will loose power (the same way adding high mounts loose 1-2hp by making the exhaust system longer). Then at high RPMs you will have an increase in back pressure, which, by your link, is not good for power.
While the mod can work for some folks, IMHO it is not the "Hot Set Up" and has limited applications.
To reply to your last little rant, I'll ask you this. Just how much does my bike weigh? What electronics package am I running? How are my carbs set? How about the exhaust, stock or just looks stock? What engine work has been done?
If you can answer these questions, then you can comment on what performance numbers my bike can generate, other wise you're just flapping your gums....
12-11-2012, 10:03 AM
#90
Banned
MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
As far as a production 2-1, I have never seen one.
