CCTs-How to change OEM to Manual Ape CCTs
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2
From: Muskogee, Ok
Just finished putting in the APE ccts... yes front is a pain but my Dad and i just decided after looking at it to go ahead and pull valve covers.
It went so much easier to be able to see the RI RE or FI FE marks.
had to pull oil cooler and left side radiator to make it easier while doing the timeing.. dont have to but its so much easier that way , and not near as hard as it sounds.
great write up!!! gave me the motivation to go ahead and do it myself..
Thanks!
It went so much easier to be able to see the RI RE or FI FE marks.
had to pull oil cooler and left side radiator to make it easier while doing the timeing.. dont have to but its so much easier that way , and not near as hard as it sounds.
great write up!!! gave me the motivation to go ahead and do it myself..
Thanks!
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 421
From: Woodland Hills, CA
Thank You Lazn
I too made the switch to APEs earlier this week...
I just want to post a quick thank you to Lazn for his CCT installation write-up! (for those searching the file is linked from his signature)
That file, combined with the shop manual and a bit of light reading through this thread made my CCT installation a breeze!
- Mike
p.s. A quick note for the other newbs out there. When closing things up... be sure to properly tighten/torque your valve cover(s)... unless (as I did) you intend to lube the outside of your engine!
I just want to post a quick thank you to Lazn for his CCT installation write-up! (for those searching the file is linked from his signature)
That file, combined with the shop manual and a bit of light reading through this thread made my CCT installation a breeze!
- Mike
p.s. A quick note for the other newbs out there. When closing things up... be sure to properly tighten/torque your valve cover(s)... unless (as I did) you intend to lube the outside of your engine!
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 27
From: North East England
I too made the switch to APEs earlier this week...
I just want to post a quick thank you to Lazn for his CCT installation write-up! (for those searching the file is linked from his signature)
That file, combined with the shop manual and a bit of light reading through this thread made my CCT installation a breeze!
- Mike
p.s. A quick note for the other newbs out there. When closing things up... be sure to properly tighten/torque your valve cover(s)... unless (as I did) you intend to lube the outside of your engine!
I just want to post a quick thank you to Lazn for his CCT installation write-up! (for those searching the file is linked from his signature)
That file, combined with the shop manual and a bit of light reading through this thread made my CCT installation a breeze!
- Mike
p.s. A quick note for the other newbs out there. When closing things up... be sure to properly tighten/torque your valve cover(s)... unless (as I did) you intend to lube the outside of your engine!
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 667
From: NY State
I installed APEs in my 2005 about 2-months ago. This week, I installed them in my brother's 1999. Since then the APE instructions have changed. This is what is on the back of the package now:
Tensioner Instructions
To set the tensioner adjustment, remove the cam cover. Rotate the engine in the running direction. Push down on the chain between the cams and screw the tensioner in until there is between 1/4” and 3/8” deflection in the chain. Lock the jam nut on the tensioner.
CAUTION: If the tensioner is too tight, rapid wear can result. Too loose, and engine damage can occur.
Tensioner Instructions
To set the tensioner adjustment, remove the cam cover. Rotate the engine in the running direction. Push down on the chain between the cams and screw the tensioner in until there is between 1/4” and 3/8” deflection in the chain. Lock the jam nut on the tensioner.
CAUTION: If the tensioner is too tight, rapid wear can result. Too loose, and engine damage can occur.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
I installed APEs in my 2005 about 2-months ago. This week, I installed them in my brother's 1999. Since then the APE instructions have changed. This is what is on the back of the package now:
Tensioner Instructions
To set the tensioner adjustment, remove the cam cover. Rotate the engine in the running direction. Push down on the chain between the cams and screw the tensioner in until there is between 1/4 and 3/8 deflection in the chain. Lock the jam nut on the tensioner.
CAUTION: If the tensioner is too tight, rapid wear can result. Too loose, and engine damage can occur.
Tensioner Instructions
To set the tensioner adjustment, remove the cam cover. Rotate the engine in the running direction. Push down on the chain between the cams and screw the tensioner in until there is between 1/4 and 3/8 deflection in the chain. Lock the jam nut on the tensioner.
CAUTION: If the tensioner is too tight, rapid wear can result. Too loose, and engine damage can occur.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
thanks for the git back res. Mine should be okay then, cause I just took it in till it touched, then tightened the locknut. I don't have the apes, just a bolt inserted into the oem ccts. I am gonna check it soon to see if it changed since i installed the bolts a couple years ago. thanks again.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 320
I just installed some APE CCT's, and I had an easy time of it, except for one huge issue. While removing one of the cam cover bolts, the bolt broke in half down at the threaded end. So I have half of the thread portion of the bolt stuck down in the hole. I went ahead and installed the CCTs and that went smoothly. The new APE directions of 1/4 to 3/8 inch deflection in the chain is pretty loose. Nowhere near finger tight.
Anybody have any suggestions on how to remove the stuck part of the bolt? There is no part of the bolt protruding above the hole. I was going to buy an "easy out" kit or something like that , and hope it works. I just ordered 4 replacement cam cover bolts, and hopefully they will get here well before my track day on 8 July.
Anybody have any suggestions on how to remove the stuck part of the bolt? There is no part of the bolt protruding above the hole. I was going to buy an "easy out" kit or something like that , and hope it works. I just ordered 4 replacement cam cover bolts, and hopefully they will get here well before my track day on 8 July.
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
I installed APEs in my 2005 about 2-months ago. This week, I installed them in my brother's 1999. Since then the APE instructions have changed. This is what is on the back of the package now:
Tensioner Instructions
To set the tensioner adjustment, remove the cam cover. Rotate the engine in the running direction. Push down on the chain between the cams and screw the tensioner in until there is between 1/4 and 3/8 deflection in the chain. Lock the jam nut on the tensioner.
CAUTION: If the tensioner is too tight, rapid wear can result. Too loose, and engine damage can occur.
Tensioner Instructions
To set the tensioner adjustment, remove the cam cover. Rotate the engine in the running direction. Push down on the chain between the cams and screw the tensioner in until there is between 1/4 and 3/8 deflection in the chain. Lock the jam nut on the tensioner.
CAUTION: If the tensioner is too tight, rapid wear can result. Too loose, and engine damage can occur.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 320
I was able to get the broken bolt out by hammering a small sharp flathead screwdriver into the bolt. The bolt broke off in such a way that the screwdriver was able to catch on a piece of it, and it came out fairly easy (so easy that it makes me think the bolt was already cracked before today, because it wasn't really stuck). Now I'm just hoping that the replacement bolts are in stock. I don't want to miss my first track day because of a stupid bolt.
So in others experience, is finger tight about right? Or do you end up having to loosen it up from there? For the rear, I set mine to allow me to wiggle the chain just a little bit on the sprocket, which was about half a turn out from an (oily) finger tight. On the front, I just tried to match the tension I did on the rear. I haven't started her up yet to see what that setting sounds like.
So in others experience, is finger tight about right? Or do you end up having to loosen it up from there? For the rear, I set mine to allow me to wiggle the chain just a little bit on the sprocket, which was about half a turn out from an (oily) finger tight. On the front, I just tried to match the tension I did on the rear. I haven't started her up yet to see what that setting sounds like.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 667
From: NY State
...So in others experience, is finger tight about right? Or do you end up having to loosen it up from there? For the rear, I set mine to allow me to wiggle the chain just a little bit on the sprocket, which was about half a turn out from an (oily) finger tight. On the front, I just tried to match the tension I did on the rear. I haven't started her up yet to see what that setting sounds like.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
Unfortunately once it has made the noise it usually is too late.. The pistons have hit the valves and major work is needed to repair.
Josh
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 278
From: Spokane, WA
Yeah, i was ridding up a hill when mine went, i was about 20 miles away from home. It sucked! Took 6 months to get her running again. it was winter, couldn't ride much anyways.
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 17
From: NYC
Did you ride 20 miles? I shut mine down, it was still running at least no seizure. We will see.
Josh
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 278
From: Spokane, WA
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
been there crashed that
Squid
Squid
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 61
From: North west NJ
timing jump
Hey guys, great thread!!
so here is my question
I am about to open up the lids on someone else's cct swap gone bad.
is there an easy way to tell if its an intake jump or exhaust jump?
I picked up the bike, took her out for a 30 mile romp and had backfire intermittent.
is there any good drawings that illustrate the gear positions
it runs strong, pulls hard just has a pop under no load at any rpm
I will be adding the front APE cct while she is open, so I know its the rear one that is out, just how do I get it back??
Thanks a ton guys!!
so here is my question
I am about to open up the lids on someone else's cct swap gone bad.
is there an easy way to tell if its an intake jump or exhaust jump?
I picked up the bike, took her out for a 30 mile romp and had backfire intermittent.
is there any good drawings that illustrate the gear positions
it runs strong, pulls hard just has a pop under no load at any rpm
I will be adding the front APE cct while she is open, so I know its the rear one that is out, just how do I get it back??
Thanks a ton guys!!
the boss
SuperBike
SuperBike
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,182
From: largo,fl
on the first page of this thread,you will find all info you need,it will give you good instructions,copy and paste this in the search 
2005 owner manual download down load manual and go to page 166,use this as a reference to your timing marks.
on first page it will tell you to put bike in 6th gear.take off small screw with a allen wrench on the left engine cover and look for the markings you need,RT and FT is the marks you will be using to time the cams.
TIP loosen the spark plugs and let them sit loose in the pockets or take out plugs and put the plug boots back in the opening,this will help spinning of the motor and if you happen to drop a screw,it wont go in the spark plug hole.
read read and read before doing everything,take time and make sure you double check everything before putting everything back together.
when you take the head covers off,take it off slowly,there is a rubber gasket on a metal tube.it can drop in motor.be sure to put back in place when putting covers back on.
again,read read and read.make sure you understand all instructions on first page of this thread and down load manual.take your time,and this could be done in a couple of hours.
2005 owner manual download down load manual and go to page 166,use this as a reference to your timing marks.on first page it will tell you to put bike in 6th gear.take off small screw with a allen wrench on the left engine cover and look for the markings you need,RT and FT is the marks you will be using to time the cams.
TIP loosen the spark plugs and let them sit loose in the pockets or take out plugs and put the plug boots back in the opening,this will help spinning of the motor and if you happen to drop a screw,it wont go in the spark plug hole.
read read and read before doing everything,take time and make sure you double check everything before putting everything back together.
when you take the head covers off,take it off slowly,there is a rubber gasket on a metal tube.it can drop in motor.be sure to put back in place when putting covers back on.
again,read read and read.make sure you understand all instructions on first page of this thread and down load manual.take your time,and this could be done in a couple of hours.
Last edited by saige; Aug 24, 2010 at 10:58 PM. Reason: forgot to mention the left cover.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
Hey guys, great thread!!
so here is my question
I am about to open up the lids on someone else's cct swap gone bad.
is there an easy way to tell if its an intake jump or exhaust jump?
I picked up the bike, took her out for a 30 mile romp and had backfire intermittent.
is there any good drawings that illustrate the gear positions
it runs strong, pulls hard just has a pop under no load at any rpm
I will be adding the front APE cct while she is open, so I know its the rear one that is out, just how do I get it back??
Thanks a ton guys!!
so here is my question
I am about to open up the lids on someone else's cct swap gone bad.
is there an easy way to tell if its an intake jump or exhaust jump?
I picked up the bike, took her out for a 30 mile romp and had backfire intermittent.
is there any good drawings that illustrate the gear positions
it runs strong, pulls hard just has a pop under no load at any rpm
I will be adding the front APE cct while she is open, so I know its the rear one that is out, just how do I get it back??
Thanks a ton guys!!
i would say you're assuming that the CCTs are the culprit whereas it's more likely TPS, jetting, sync, air mix, slides. Check those things first since these usually cause popping/backfire symptoms. Adjust CCT if you suspect it's needed but to tear into the engine for the symptoms you describe is probably just chasing your tail.
been there crashed that
Squid
Squid
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 61
From: North west NJ
great help
Hey guys,
thanks to all for the response,
Nath981,
you make a very good point, however after reading the post from the former owner.
just makes me want to double check the timing,
now on the the other suggestions, I do now believe it could be an issue with jetting/dirty carbs etc!!
I did about 40 miles tonight on way home from work and really payed attention to the motor.
at 4k and above there was no miss/kick /pop, then at 3200 she started to misbehave and kick as ifto be starved for fuel on one cyl. at 4k up she pulls hard!!
Going to dig into carbs first clean and once over, former owner did do the jetting.
then will go onto tps, (prob do 500 ohms mod if needed) and so on.
sorry to hijack the thread
thanks again guys!!
time to turn the wrenches
thanks to all for the response,
Nath981,
you make a very good point, however after reading the post from the former owner.
Yes it can happen. It happened to me just 2 weeks ago. ordered 2 ape cct. just yesterday went to install the rear. chain skipped teeth, timing was all out of wack. retimed it was an all day affair the manual is not that great I thought. It took three brains to figure out, as none of us ever had to retime a superhawk before we finally figured it out as per the book said. Put it all together and realized I didnt get off so easily bad exhaust valve tapping. Lots of sputtering and backfiring definetly not running smooth. Any one know where to get some good Quality valves or what make is reputable.
now on the the other suggestions, I do now believe it could be an issue with jetting/dirty carbs etc!!
I did about 40 miles tonight on way home from work and really payed attention to the motor.
at 4k and above there was no miss/kick /pop, then at 3200 she started to misbehave and kick as ifto be starved for fuel on one cyl. at 4k up she pulls hard!!
Going to dig into carbs first clean and once over, former owner did do the jetting.
then will go onto tps, (prob do 500 ohms mod if needed) and so on.
sorry to hijack the thread
thanks again guys!!
time to turn the wrenches
Former Superchicken Owner
SuperBike
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,607
From: Ft. Worth, TX
