mikstr

You make a very good point, lol

So, where were we? Should I try a K&N filter? Who makes the best jet kits?....

jbaxx

Threadjack from hell...

Hawkrider

Okay then, if nobody has any other comments on Superhawk vs. GSX-R750 then I'm going to close this thread. Wow, why do most of our threads head down this path?

mikstr

Does the Gixxer use the same type of oil as the VTR?

mikstr

On a more serious note, I would love to ride a new GSX-R (or ZX, or R1/R6, or CBR, or Daytona 675,...) unfortunately, the opportunity has not arisen.

jbaxx

I rode a friend's GSXR-750 ('05) and it seemed like a nice bike, but for street riding it just didn"t have much oomph under 8-10k. In contrast my 954 (full Micron Exhaust) would have you in jail by then. I'm sure it's a fabulous bike to take to the track where you can rev the nuts off the thing, but for a street bike I prefer something with a nice fat torque curve. A Superhawk, perhaps...

mikstr

The 954 would strike me as bieng a good compromise, sportier than the VTR more not as rev-dependent as the smaller I-4's. HOw was it for mid-range (roll-ons, ...)?

jbaxx

Mid-range performance for the 954 is really good. 60-80 is about 2.5 secs. 80-100 is about the same. For canyon riding, I can just leave it in one gear - no shifting needed. Just a smooth steady flow of power at all times. Keep in mind mine has a full exhaust & pc w/ a good map. The thing makes power EVERYWHERE. I can run it down to idle in 6th gear (18 mph) and it will still pull. Just another overlooked & underappreciated Honda.

There is no comparison in mid-range performance between the 954 and the Gix 750. The Honda is far superior. It out torques the SH too!

J.J.

No, it doesnt.

From Motorcylist:

CBR954RR ('02) 132.1 @ 11,250 68.4 @ 8750

VTR1000F ('97) 104.0 @ 8500 68.5 @ 6750

mikstr

Look again! The roll-on times for the 954 are much quicker than the VTR. Much as I like my VTR, people have to realize that the new big bore I-4's are torquey everywhere and can annihilate the VTR at virtually any speed. While nominal torque at highway speeds may be slightly lowser in the case of the 954, the bike is also 50 lbs lighter.

superbling

Well all three of you are right.

Jbaxx just used the wrong word in his statement (torque instead power or grunt, etc). JJ has the numbers to prove his point (however small it is, it still is! LOL). And mikstr has pointed out how power, weight, and gearing are the real indicators.

The butt dyno is a funny instrument. Try a ride on an FJR1300. 100 ft/lbs torque yet weighs a ton but if you want to talk serious real world thrust, this bike has it in spades. It will always be a stinky IL4 tho'.

Torque numbers aside, I prefer the V's torque characteristics over an inline. Whack a strong IL4 open, it tries to pull the grips out of your hands. Try the same thing with a good torquey V and it feels like the force of the rear tire is being pushed through the small of your back. If that makes sense.....

mikstr

There is definitely a difference in the way they accelerate. Big twins are extremely deceiving in the way they gather speed, causing one to think not much is happening. An I-4 is hard to beat for the kick in the pants though. Either way, it is nice to have access to all these wonderful bikes. I only wish I could afford a few more....

J.J.

Oh I have no doubt that the 954 would pretty much stomp all over the SH on the road.

I was just arguing that the SH, in actual measured torque, has (a whole .1) more.... for what thats worth. (Nothing?)

Hawkrider

My VTR only weighs 430# wet, of course this is with mods...mods which together with the cost of the bike is probably still costs less than a 954.

mikstr

Claimed dry weights (by Honda) were 423 for the VTR, and 370 for the 954 (if I remember correctly). Of course, you can get both down in weight, how light you wan tto go is strictly a matter of $$$$$$$

Hawkrider

Wet weight according to Motorcyclist Online is 439 and 477#, 954 and VTR respectively. It's the wet weight that matters because that's the way I ride the bike.

mikstr

Good point, but the CBR has a larger tank too. Either way, it is a moot point for the VTR is heavier, by how much depends on how much fuel,... The point I was getting at is that many people seem to think that because an engine is an I-4 that it is necessarily a rev-happy top-end only engine and that is NOT true. The engine architecture has little, if any, to do with an engine's power output. It does, however, affect how that power is put to the ground (and the big and close power pulses of a v-tiwn give it an advantage on corner exits for example). However, as Yamaha has clearly demonstrated with their "big bang" I-4 M1 engine, playing with the crank can eliminate this advantage.

J.J.

Yeah, I usually like to have fluids in my bike, too.

mikstr

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but if both bikes had the same amount of fuel in them, say 2 gallons, the disparity would be right in line with 423 vs 370. Any takers?

jbaxx

Not to beat a dead horse here, because I really don't care, but I just looked it up on Motorcyclistonline. The CBR954RR (stock) has the same 60-80 roll on as a Hayabusa; 2.7secs. Yes, that's right, same as a Hayabusa. The Hawk runs it @ 5 sec. But don't get me wrong, I LOVE my 'Hawk. I prefer it to the 954 as a street bike. Dyno numbers just don't tell the whole story.
FWIW, the current Gix 750 runs a respectable 3.37 60-80 roll on.

GeMs

I swear I read somewhere on this forum the the Superhawk had one of the best 50-80 roll on times around. Even though its almost 10 years old..

GeMs

Well to back up my post here is some numbers I found.. Bottom of the page. And its a 98'

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_...rs/index4.html

J.J.

Hmmmmm... thats GOTTA be a typo. According to those numbers, the SH has better 60-80 roll-on performance than 1000RR, 929, 954, and even RC51. ??? Is that possible???

mikstr

The numbers vary a lot. Personally, I think the 5 seconds quoted by Motorcyclist does not do the bike justice, and the 2.78 is too optimistic. I would tend to beleive that the 3.5 seconds recorded by Cycle World back in 1998 would be more in line with reality.
In terms of beating the I-4's I don't think so but it could very well be quicker in a roll-on than the RC (VTR is a touch lighter and in the meat of its power whereas the RC is a bit more top-end biased)

Hawkrider

Look, we're comparing apples to oranges here since the power output of both bikes is WAY different. If you want a fast bike that'll do 180, rip the rear tire to shreds, and wheelie on command then buy one. I did - my 1000RR. It's putting like 160 to the rear wheel. But for every day riding you just can't beat the S'Hawk. Jack of all trades, master at none - that's what the S'Hawk is. Depending on how you mod it it can have many uses. Throw some Helis, a Corbin, and some soft bags on it and tour around the country. Suspension mods, high mounts, and Sharkskinz and you have a good track weapon.

Of course you could probably do the same thing with the 954 too.

Hawkrider

It IS a typo. There's no way the S'Hawk is anywhere close to the 1000RR or the RC51. I've own(ed) both. As far as quality of power delivery, I'd say the RC51 is the best, other than the tall gearing in 1st. If there were any way to put an RC51 motor in a Superhawk I'd do it....or make an RC51 a better street bike.

mikstr

No arguments here. I have Helis, a Sargent seat and rode to Calgary and back (10,000 kms or 6200 miles) in two weeks. I also enjoy ripping down backroads with it. It truly is a very versatile machine and that is the main reason I bought it (did a lot of reading prior to getting the cheque book out beleive me). That being said, there are a lot of other good bikes out there too (FZ1, Bandits, Tuono,.....), it is all about finding something you like and, should you be so inclined, modding it to bring it closer to what you desire or need. Despite my love affaire with my VTR, I would love to have a new GSX-R 1000, ZX-10, an RC, .... of course, a Sprint RS, a Superduke,... or an Aprilia SXV550,....would also be nice. I must confess that the ZX-9 and 954 have always intrigued me though....