smog removal help?
09-03-2007, 08:04 AM
#1
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smog removal help?
Hi all feel like a dumbass for asking this question...but done a few searches..can still not 100%...ok I removed seat,tank,removed pair valves..installed block off plates removed smog canister..amd one plastic thingy!...but still kinda confused?...I do not have a workshop manual so not sure the correct name but still seem to have two other thingys?...are pcv asv?...do I remove them?...what are the actual carb vents?....anyone have the odd picture of what they actually removed?...thanks...guys
09-03-2007, 09:26 AM
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Click this link and go to post #8 to look at the diagram. If you are removing the PAIR vacuum valve assembly under the airbox, you will need to plug the hole under the airbox using a 5/8" rubber cap and clamp and the hose going from the valve assembly to the front carb. Cut the hose close to the carb. approx. 2" and stick a screw in it. Then put a 1/4" rubber cap on it and clamp it.
Re-assemble everything and go ride. The rubber caps can be purchased at any auto parts store, they usually come in a pack with various sizes. Same with the clamps.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=12407
Re-assemble everything and go ride. The rubber caps can be purchased at any auto parts store, they usually come in a pack with various sizes. Same with the clamps.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=12407
09-03-2007, 09:44 AM
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ok
ok ..that sounds like what I have done......plugged one hole in bottom of airbox....and plugged one vent line?...that was left open from pcv?.....I used block off plates (tpo) for valve's that was fitted on the valve covers..
But I have one other question...once you remove the smog cannister...you are left with two open pipes?...do this stay vented to atmosphere?...or does one get blocked?...
Thanks...bike started up and runs ok..but not riden her yet..
But I have one other question...once you remove the smog cannister...you are left with two open pipes?...do this stay vented to atmosphere?...or does one get blocked?...
Thanks...bike started up and runs ok..but not riden her yet..
09-04-2007, 09:56 AM
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ca smog stuff
Ok guys....so has any one with a California bike removed all the smog crap!.....So far I can not find a full write up on how to do this?....
It's just that the superhawk (ca model) seems to have so much pipework & extra's hoses to meet ca emmisions?....
1/ smog canister
2/pair valve
3/some kinda of smog valve behind right hand radiator?
4/another valve below carbs?
So far I have removed the pair valve assembly..ie:the valve attached to the valve covers..one black plastic valve that the hoses ran into from each valve cover.....blocked one hole in bottom of airbox....blocked one vent hose (suction)..to carbs was attach to black plastic thingy....also removed smog canister and left two hoses that went to it vented (open).....
So far the bike runs great no different than before really...which I take as a good thing....maybe the only difference is a drop of 500-1000 rpm @ idle and maybe just ever so slighty a better tick over @ idle...
My main concerns or not to mess up the fueling on my superhawk as I know how finicky superhawk carbs can be...My understanding is that all the smog crap is basically a passive system and if removed should have no bad affects to the fueling.
I would really like to remove all the smog hoses...because it makes it such a pain to work on the bike.....also it seems that the carbs have coolant hoses running thru them to stop carb icing...seeing as I live in sunny california and don't ever intend riding in snow or ice..is it possible to just disconnect these also?...
Any help would be great thanks guys....
Next up is ordering some brake lines...and fixing the front forks...but I will save those question for another day...
It's just that the superhawk (ca model) seems to have so much pipework & extra's hoses to meet ca emmisions?....
1/ smog canister
2/pair valve
3/some kinda of smog valve behind right hand radiator?
4/another valve below carbs?
So far I have removed the pair valve assembly..ie:the valve attached to the valve covers..one black plastic valve that the hoses ran into from each valve cover.....blocked one hole in bottom of airbox....blocked one vent hose (suction)..to carbs was attach to black plastic thingy....also removed smog canister and left two hoses that went to it vented (open).....
So far the bike runs great no different than before really...which I take as a good thing....maybe the only difference is a drop of 500-1000 rpm @ idle and maybe just ever so slighty a better tick over @ idle...
My main concerns or not to mess up the fueling on my superhawk as I know how finicky superhawk carbs can be...My understanding is that all the smog crap is basically a passive system and if removed should have no bad affects to the fueling.
I would really like to remove all the smog hoses...because it makes it such a pain to work on the bike.....also it seems that the carbs have coolant hoses running thru them to stop carb icing...seeing as I live in sunny california and don't ever intend riding in snow or ice..is it possible to just disconnect these also?...
Any help would be great thanks guys....
Next up is ordering some brake lines...and fixing the front forks...but I will save those question for another day...
09-05-2007, 11:04 AM
#8
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pic's
Ok here is a picture of what I have removed so far......the pair system is only a part of all the smog crap on my bike?.....I also removed the smog canister...if you look to the right of the smog canister there are two pipes that had rubber hoses attached to them...they have nothing to do with the pair system?....one pipe runs up to another kinda of valve system that is located behind the right hand radiator?.....
Has any one dealt with this before?...thanks
Has any one dealt with this before?...thanks
09-05-2007, 04:13 PM
#9
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thank you greg!
Ok just looked in the knowledge base?...and guess what?...someone has kindly downloaded the honda service manual!...thank you very much...still a little confused by all the crap on my bike...should be able to figure what can be junked?......also..anyone know if you have to have the crankcase vents go in tot airbox?....
09-05-2007, 08:35 PM
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Not a damned thing performance-wise! The PAIR air is injected into the exhaust port of the head. Combustion has already taken place to make power inside the motor, thus power does not change. The combustion in the pipes from unburnt fuel no longer occurs and the pipes will be cooler, maybe the engine running temp will be slightly lower since the exhaust port combustion is no longer a heat source...but that's not been proven.
09-05-2007, 09:09 PM
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Not a damned thing performance-wise! The PAIR air is injected into the exhaust port of the head. Combustion has already taken place to make power inside the motor, thus power does not change. The combustion in the pipes from unburnt fuel no longer occurs and the pipes will be cooler, maybe the engine running temp will be slightly lower since the exhaust port combustion is no longer a heat source...but that's not been proven.
I suppose I'll sound like the devils advociate, but if it doesn't do a damn thing, why bother messing with it? As long as it isn't giving you problems, leave the fawkin' thing alone. I learned that lesson the hard way on my jeep.
09-06-2007, 01:08 AM
#14
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I had it on for a while, then I removed the whole system. frees up space too.
09-06-2007, 05:03 AM
#15
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OK....so the PAIR takes up space and obviously weighs SOMETHING...reasons to toss it. But...it helps keep the head cool, a possible plus and definitely not a negative, and if you don't mind popping...better to keep it???
Is that about right?
(I'll probably toss it when I enter the black art/science of carb tuning...lots of edumacation left on that one).
Is that about right?
(I'll probably toss it when I enter the black art/science of carb tuning...lots of edumacation left on that one).
09-06-2007, 05:45 AM
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No, the pair system doesn't keep the head cool. The possibility is that it does the opposite by encouraging combustion in the exhaust pipe just outside the engine. I still have mine on, but my pipes are turning all sorts of different colors, all the way back to the mounting brackets.
Check out the link in Greg's signature line, you'll find detailed instructions and schematics, along with lots of other invaluable advise.
Check out the link in Greg's signature line, you'll find detailed instructions and schematics, along with lots of other invaluable advise.
09-06-2007, 10:26 AM
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emissions?
Hi all ..thanks for all the responses.....
1st of let me state that california bikes are very different emission wise compared to 49 state models...(please look @ the service manual if you are interested)
Basically after doing a little research....this is the conclusion I have come to....pair valve system...while being a emission system on our bike is almost separate from the other two emisson control valves on california models.
Again basically from looking at the emission controls on CA bikes you have an emission free bike?....where as any or all emissions only come out of the tail pipe!......carb vents...gastank vent and crankcase pressure vents are all routed back to the airbox and back into the combustion process?...
Because of this on CA bikes you have so many god damn hoses to do all this,its an absolute mess under the gas tank once you remove the air box.
Also you have a smog canister again another separate emisson valve in a way...
Ok I can understand why people with 49 state bikes remove there pair valves to clean up there bike..but that is just the begining if you have a CA bike.
The main reason I would like to remove all the smog crap is to clean up my bike alittle....make maintence easy....be able to fill my gas tank up to the brim without it crapping out on me 2 mins later because the friggin vent to the smog canister or evaporative control valve is full of gas!...Just a side note if I fill my bike up to the brim I can quite easily go 150-155 miles before I have to fill up again with 4 gallons of gas?
Also you have a coolant hose running to the carbs..which I imagine could be easliy removed...maybe this is to prevent carb icing?...or to heat up carbs to aid in emissions?.....
I can understand why someone with a 49 state model may not understand what the hell I'm going on about!....just consider yourself lucky.....And yes all these systems maybe? passive and have no effect on power...but they sure as hell over complicate things and also allow for any number of problems if one of those valves was to fail!...
And for any green warriors out there (not sure there are too many this board)..worried that the emissions from my now CA illegal superhawk will be releasing in to air!.....
Let me share with you how you start a old truimph bonnie or any other older model bike...first off tickle the carbs?...what you say make them laugh!...no depress a small plunger in the float bowl that basically floods the carbs pouring gas out everywhere...then once your bike is started and running ...watch in amazement as little puff's of smoke can been seeing coming out of the crankcase beather tube?...also smell the gas vapors pouring out of the gas tank vent!....and the carbs vents?..."O" the shock and horror of it all.....also be amazed that there are no coolant pipes running thru the carbs?...O yea forget it's air cooled....anyway sorry for the rant.
Just the reason I came back to a superhawk is becuase to me...this bike reminds me of bikes of old.....nice v-twin motor with long legs....hell it's even got a choke lever!.....
I just don't want a load of modern smog crap on my bike....
Why can't I have a gas tank vent that vents to the air?....ok I let the crankcase pressure flow back into the airbox.....even the carbs vent too....but I do not need to have my carbs heated by coolant?...god knows our superhawks run hot enough as it is.....is'nt the whole idea to keep your bike cool..and the carbs too...anyway enough of my rant......if anyone has removed all the smog crap please let me know..thank you
1st of let me state that california bikes are very different emission wise compared to 49 state models...(please look @ the service manual if you are interested)
Basically after doing a little research....this is the conclusion I have come to....pair valve system...while being a emission system on our bike is almost separate from the other two emisson control valves on california models.
Again basically from looking at the emission controls on CA bikes you have an emission free bike?....where as any or all emissions only come out of the tail pipe!......carb vents...gastank vent and crankcase pressure vents are all routed back to the airbox and back into the combustion process?...
Because of this on CA bikes you have so many god damn hoses to do all this,its an absolute mess under the gas tank once you remove the air box.
Also you have a smog canister again another separate emisson valve in a way...
Ok I can understand why people with 49 state bikes remove there pair valves to clean up there bike..but that is just the begining if you have a CA bike.
The main reason I would like to remove all the smog crap is to clean up my bike alittle....make maintence easy....be able to fill my gas tank up to the brim without it crapping out on me 2 mins later because the friggin vent to the smog canister or evaporative control valve is full of gas!...Just a side note if I fill my bike up to the brim I can quite easily go 150-155 miles before I have to fill up again with 4 gallons of gas?
Also you have a coolant hose running to the carbs..which I imagine could be easliy removed...maybe this is to prevent carb icing?...or to heat up carbs to aid in emissions?.....
I can understand why someone with a 49 state model may not understand what the hell I'm going on about!....just consider yourself lucky.....And yes all these systems maybe? passive and have no effect on power...but they sure as hell over complicate things and also allow for any number of problems if one of those valves was to fail!...
And for any green warriors out there (not sure there are too many this board)..worried that the emissions from my now CA illegal superhawk will be releasing in to air!.....
Let me share with you how you start a old truimph bonnie or any other older model bike...first off tickle the carbs?...what you say make them laugh!...no depress a small plunger in the float bowl that basically floods the carbs pouring gas out everywhere...then once your bike is started and running ...watch in amazement as little puff's of smoke can been seeing coming out of the crankcase beather tube?...also smell the gas vapors pouring out of the gas tank vent!....and the carbs vents?..."O" the shock and horror of it all.....also be amazed that there are no coolant pipes running thru the carbs?...O yea forget it's air cooled....anyway sorry for the rant.
Just the reason I came back to a superhawk is becuase to me...this bike reminds me of bikes of old.....nice v-twin motor with long legs....hell it's even got a choke lever!.....
I just don't want a load of modern smog crap on my bike....
Why can't I have a gas tank vent that vents to the air?....ok I let the crankcase pressure flow back into the airbox.....even the carbs vent too....but I do not need to have my carbs heated by coolant?...god knows our superhawks run hot enough as it is.....is'nt the whole idea to keep your bike cool..and the carbs too...anyway enough of my rant......if anyone has removed all the smog crap please let me know..thank you
Last edited by speedkelly@aol.com; 09-06-2007 at 12:19 PM.
09-06-2007, 12:57 PM
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Wow! Here, you forgot something. Let me help you out:
On a serious note, leave the carb heating hoses alone. They do not affect performance and I've proven this on a dyno years ago. I agree, all the other crap can go away.
On a serious note, leave the carb heating hoses alone. They do not affect performance and I've proven this on a dyno years ago. I agree, all the other crap can go away.
09-06-2007, 01:13 PM
#20
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Hmmm
Hmmm was it really that bad!
Anyway greg thanks for the service manual sticky...helped out alot...I think I can fix what I need.....just figured someone on here may have already done this....
So I hope everyone is looking forward to my next projects?
Anyway greg thanks for the service manual sticky...helped out alot...I think I can fix what I need.....just figured someone on here may have already done this....
So I hope everyone is looking forward to my next projects?
09-10-2007, 09:51 AM
#21
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emissions removed
Ok all I finally got round to removing all the emissions this weekend.....Bike runs great so...all the smog crap must be passive....hardest part is removing the evap valve behind the right radiator..
If anyone plans on doing this a service manual would help out alot....just to make sure you don't block of any of the wrong ports?....Also I would recommend putting some red tape (pick your own color)..on the vacum line for the fuel petcock...as it seems a few people have mixed it up with the gas tank vent line...
What do you gain from removing all the smog crap on your bike?....well power wise nothing....MPG...nothing also I would imagine.......what I gained was that my bike will no longer do the clunk and die whilst idling @ the lights.....seems to have cleand up very slighty my fueling @ low rpms?...
Removal of the ugly smog canister that sits @ the front of your bike...and removal of a whole mess of hoses and valves under the airbox...should make maintence better....also I can now fill my gas tank up without inducing vapor lock....
Ok...I will put this issue to sleep now....thanks for all the help everyone...p.s greg I left the coolant hoses to carbs alone,did not seem to both me that much once I had removed so much of all the other crap...I have a lot more room around my carbs now to make any adjustments.
Ding Ding next round?....Brake lines?..should be straight forward.
Front forks?..should be interesting?...I will as always let you guys know?
If anyone plans on doing this a service manual would help out alot....just to make sure you don't block of any of the wrong ports?....Also I would recommend putting some red tape (pick your own color)..on the vacum line for the fuel petcock...as it seems a few people have mixed it up with the gas tank vent line...
What do you gain from removing all the smog crap on your bike?....well power wise nothing....MPG...nothing also I would imagine.......what I gained was that my bike will no longer do the clunk and die whilst idling @ the lights.....seems to have cleand up very slighty my fueling @ low rpms?...
Removal of the ugly smog canister that sits @ the front of your bike...and removal of a whole mess of hoses and valves under the airbox...should make maintence better....also I can now fill my gas tank up without inducing vapor lock....
Ok...I will put this issue to sleep now....thanks for all the help everyone...p.s greg I left the coolant hoses to carbs alone,did not seem to both me that much once I had removed so much of all the other crap...I have a lot more room around my carbs now to make any adjustments.
Ding Ding next round?....Brake lines?..should be straight forward.
Front forks?..should be interesting?...I will as always let you guys know?
08-10-2022, 04:39 PM
#23
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Posts: 16
This was a great read. I have a CA superhaw and I am new to this.
I am going through carb anxiety now and am going to remove all of the CA emission items tonight. I have not been able to turn my bike on since I bought it four months ago. This information was extremely helpful. I will be posting more because I'm sure I will be running into issues. Thanks again.
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