When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Had my last ride on my Superhawk on Tuesday. Had slowly over time done the things I wanted to it, performance was exactly where I need it and I was enjoying life.
Unfortunately the last mod which I hadn't gotten around to, has been the death knell. MCCT's, I never go to do them as I didn't feel I had the capability to do them myself, and thus I hadn't gotten around to getting my mechanic to do the switch.
Well Tuesday, went for a nice long ride, some great classic switch back sections over 200klm's. On my way home, and not more than 400 metres from home, whilst de-acceleration to turn right into my street a dreaded sound.
The sound was more like my number plate had fallen off and was dragging along the ground. I managed to stop and kill the bike, then walked a slow walk home the rest of the way.
I'm assuming my auto cam tensioner has failed. I've been trying to get someone to have a look for me and confirm the damage (or NOT) but have resigned myself to the fact I need to look for another bike.
It will most likely be another hawk, I have to say I have enjoyed it immensely, its been so much fun that I've been riding it everyday and everywhere.
For the record, it only had 30,000 miles. Only real issue I had was dirty fuel once. I loved my "yellow terror" and it will be sorely missed. :-(
I had one fail, heard a horrible clatter noise from the engine, and quickly shut it down like you did. Unfortunately for me I was over 4hrs away from home. Maybe I just got lucky, but after I installed a pair of mcct’s I got years of life and dozens of high revving trackdays out of it. Zero damage. Don’t give up hope just yet.
If you did bend valves, there are both front and rear heads on eBay right now relatively cheap. One seller doesn't say they're good or from a running bike, but maybe they don't know or maybe they're hiding something. Other seller seems to indicate no damage. Don't know if they ship to Oz. Even if you bent valves, piston damage seems to be rare with such a failure, so a head swap should fix you up.
When your "number plate fell off", did you lose power or did the exhaust note change like you lost a cylinder? If not, maybe you got lucky. In which case I wouldn't crank it again until you check timing and fix the CCT.
Last edited by VTR1000F; 12-11-2020 at 08:44 PM.
Reason: Effect changes.
Sad to hear for sure.
Hopefully the damage if any is minimal and with only 30,000 miles it's ashamed it didn't go longer before failure.
My 'Hawk had 43,000 miles when I bought it, took it for its maiden voyage 😍, and after reading about all the problems with the mcct's I resolved myself to tear it down and fix the problem before IT happened. 😬😫
Been without the beast for 4 months as I rebuild and mod it so I can have a reliable ride. 🤞😁
Having a spare bike isn't a bad thing at all as parts are readily available and eventually you could have the broke bike back up and running again.
Best of luck with your decision. 🙏🏽👍
Is it mileage, oil changes or lack thereof, spirited riding with extended high rpms, really crappy design, or.... that causes the ccts to fail? I can't seem to find a specific reason.
I changed mine to manual at 5k, just due dilegence I guess.
"These were changed for oem honda auto tensioners only 4 months ago prior to ownership 800 miles ago ."
"oil changes"
Likely related to oil as front ones give out more often than rear. Front ones run drier than rear. Could well be a correlation but one that even quality or frequency of oil changes can't completely prevent.
"spirited riding with extended high rpms"
Difficult to say - race ones used normal CCTs but they were changed frequently.
"really crappy design"
Much the same design as used on many IL4 Hondas - however when they fail on an IL4 the multi cylinder configuration doesn't quite allow the cam chain to hop skip and jump off cam sprockets and gives a warning rattle, while with the V-twin setup the chances are it will leading to more damage being caused.
Like you've done fitting manual tensioners takes the problematic little spring out of the equation...
Don't panic, set the timing and install some cct's and check compression. 90% chance of being just fine. The V has about a mile of piston to valve clearance and I know for certain that you might walk away unscathed. After much discussion with a spring manufacturer near me I've learned that there are two likely causes of the spring failure. 1. the heat treat process after winding or...the tension was either never set correctly or never adjusted post installation. It is important to not that on some Hondas it call for a re-tension of the tensioner periodically and in the cases where it does, they are identical to ours. I know of at least one video of how to set the tension on a tensioner as preventative maintenance. Also, I have two extra new springs that have been cryogenically treated and coated with a thermal coating that I am will to sell to any interested person. FYI...
Please expand on your comment, "The V has about a mile of piston to valve clearance..." If this were the case, you would never have valve damage when timing goes out. My reading indicates that it's fairly common if you jump, I think, more than one tooth.
In the hopes that the OP hasn't experienced engine damage, I wouldn't crank the motor other than by hand until timing is verified as it could jump more.
Your reading and understanding are correct but incomplete as a whole package. The piston to valve clearance on the V is well over .150" on both the intake and exhaust side. I'd have to refer to my notes to get exact numbers but it's well beyond what is considered safe especially when the mild cam timing events are factored in. It's still an interference motor but the situation is about a 50/50 that it will work out ok... but leaning more toward the "Ok" side of things, it depends on when in the cycle it happened and how hard he was riding, but as he said...on deceleration followed by immediate shut down. All he has to do is put in a replacement cct and set the timing then check compression. No biggy. In fact, I might have a spare cct I'd send him for the cost of shipping just to get to that point. How do I know these things...I've done it...twice....and lived to tell the tale with no damage whatsoever. In fact the only time I did damage a piston it was on a cylinder that had never been out of time and was running fine...alas I digress...another story.
It seems to me the determining factor is how far the motor gets out of time. The other things you mention may contribute to how much timing slips given the chance, but other than that, have no bearing on whether you suffer damage or not.
Perhaps we're saying the same thing in different ways.
Kind of...the lift on the V is a touch over .400" on the exhaust depending on lash and wear, therefore the most it can descend into the chamber is .400" or so. I checked back through my notes and the actual spec for PTV on my stock motoron the exhaust side was actually more like .340". The PTV I quoted previously is my current spec. Either way, if the PTV clearance is .340" and the max lift is .400", there is a .060" window of potential failure depending on where in the cycle the chain came off. So yes, how much out of time is certainly a factor, but what is totally possible is that the cam chain broke or came off the gears altogether. That would be better in my opinion because the cams would allow the valves to close and stay that way. I digress, point being he would have to be out several teeth, which is possible, and keep it running. He was on decel, I bet the chain went slack and rode up over the gear and wedged itself in the front of the head and rubbed for a few seconds with the valves shut and the cams immobile.
Guys, thanks for the responses. I still haven't got anywhere with either getting someone to look at it, or purchase another one.
ACE I do take heart with what you have said, and I REALLY hope you are correct. You've confirmed what happened to VTRDarren, so there is sort of hope.
The biggest issue is that this "numpty" has no idea on what he is doing. I really mean NO IDEA. I have time on my side, so will read through the tech details of what is required, and see if I can report on certain things along the way.
ACE, oh and seriously thank you for your generous offer of the CCT, but I will purchase some manual CCT's moving forward, as I do live in Australia and it could be more hassle than its worth.
Now, first question, what would be the very first thing this numpty should do? Remember, PLAIN simple English for this git who has no idea.
I'll put it out there, Ken Moore, if you wanted to earn some beer money and are up for a trip to Sydney, I'd be more than chuffed if you could have a look for me? I do realise its a stretch, but for me worth asking.
Begin as if you were doing a complete valve lash check and pretend that is all you are doing in order to keep yourself focused. When you get to the part where you remove the valve covers you should stop and take a few good photos. If there is no obvious problem then we need to proceed to the rest of the procedure. So...
1 Strip it down to get to the valve covers (Tank, seat, carbs,(search the guides in this forum).
2 Remove valve covers
3 Take photos and post
4 If it's complicated at that point PM me and I'll go over it on the phone or facetime etc.
5 Don't panic
Just a quick update. Work has been unrelenting already this year. Haven't had time to scratch myself let alone look at the VTR. :-(
Stumpy, mate I will definitely keep that in mind, however I am in Australia so shipping here ain't going to be cheap. I'll wait and see what we find.
I have a few things to get done over the next 2 weeks, THEN I'm going to spend the whole weekend looking at it. ACE I have been through the forum and copied/printed the details required to do what you have asked.
Be patient, hopefully I won't stuff anything up.
And what is it with COVID, the price of HAWKS here in Australia have basically doubled since I looked originally for mine. Madness. So replacing it seems too COSTLY!!
12-11-2020, 08:00 PM
