valve train / cam chain noise
05-04-2006, 01:11 PM
#1
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Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson
Posts: 93
valve train / cam chain noise
My bike has 9k on it and is bone stock. I'm starting to occasionally get some sort of valve train / cam chain noise coming from the engine. It comes and goes. Any thoughts? Thanks!
05-04-2006, 01:30 PM
#2
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Squid
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 76
Re: valve train / cam chain noise
More then likely your CCT, or cam chain tensioner.. Stock are supposed to hold up till atleast 30,000 miles or so, but it is possible that it is starting to lose it's tension. I would read up on everything on here about either CCT's or Cam Chain Tensioners.. Educate yourself on them. Well worth it. I just changed mine, and I noticed that they would give me some grief if I rode nice and slow, just keeping up with traffic, but if I would ride a bit harder, they would seem to work better... Just read up on them! They might be the problem. Other then that, from what I know the VTR has an extremely tough top end. Mine has 50,000km on it, and has yet to require a valve adjustment. I think that says something, so I doubt it would be anything else.
05-04-2006, 03:37 PM
#3
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Superstock
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 402
Re: valve train / cam chain noise
My friend's SHawk also exhibits a noise like valve train knocking.
Using a long Philips screwdriver (medium tip) between my ear and various areas of the engine I was able to narrow the noise down to the rear CCT. there is a significant noise level difference between his front (same noise much quieter) and rear(loud OUCH knocking).
I compared the sound to CCTs on my SHawk and they do not have a knocking sound but a high pitch whirring sound.
I take that as good.
His next move will probably be to get the APE CCTs.
Dustin,
Did you replace with OEM or APE CCTs? What grief?
TheSpringman if you see this...
How heavy is the tension on the spring you have for replacement. Would special tools be needd to reassemble the stock CCT?
Using a long Philips screwdriver (medium tip) between my ear and various areas of the engine I was able to narrow the noise down to the rear CCT. there is a significant noise level difference between his front (same noise much quieter) and rear(loud OUCH knocking).
I compared the sound to CCTs on my SHawk and they do not have a knocking sound but a high pitch whirring sound.
I take that as good.
His next move will probably be to get the APE CCTs.
Dustin,
Did you replace with OEM or APE CCTs? What grief?
TheSpringman if you see this...
How heavy is the tension on the spring you have for replacement. Would special tools be needd to reassemble the stock CCT?
05-05-2006, 08:26 AM
#4
Member
Squid
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 76
Re: valve train / cam chain noise
Yes, I did use OEM CCT's. They have been changed a few times by Honda, and I would rather use OEM on something like that, then the APE. That is a manual adjuster, and one person on here says that you can get excessive wear on your cam drive using a manual. The new OEM's were quite different from the originals. The contacts are now rubber coated, as aposed to steel. I think this will 1, make them quieter, and 2 last longer. We shall see... I honestly still have to install both of them. I only installed the front one, and had a major problem when installing it. Cams jumped teeth.... Possible smashed valves.. This is why I said to read up as much as possible prior to doing anything with this!
05-06-2006, 08:51 PM
#7
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 402
Are they failing or do you have a lot of mileage on your SHawk?
Sorry to hear about the chain slipping...that sucks.
Did you remove the valve covers and use something like correction fluid to mark the relationship of the chain and gear to ensure nothing got moved during the install?
The main drawback I see with the manual adjusters is that you would need to check them periodically to ensure they are kept in proper tension. I can only understand seeing excessive wear if the CCTs were installed with too much tension. I've never heard any complaints from folks that had them properly installed.
Either way you go auto/manual your best defense is periodically check them.
I second you advice to read up and know what you are dealing with.
Prevention is much cheaper than an overhaul.
05-07-2006, 07:52 AM
#8
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Merritt,MI.
Posts: 474
Re: valve train / cam chain noise
I think dustinwild means honda supposedly remade the part several times to try to fix the problems with the cct's. but my local honda shop saw no new part #'s so there for he thought they were the same
05-15-2006, 06:29 AM
#9
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Squid
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 76
CCT Info
I am only going by what I have read on this site. I have read that the part numbers have changed from one poster, so I figured he knew what he was talking about. And yes, I discovered last weekend that my cams did skip a couple of teeth, causing smashed intake valves. No, I did not take my valve cover off to do the change on it, and I am upset that I didn't. I know that I didn't have anything to worry about when I did the change on my old CBR, but that is an I4 engine. I didn't want to have to take all that stuff off, just to change my CCT. Damn laziness bites me in the *** again!!!
As for the rubber ends, I don't understand why I am supposed to change out the caps. If Honda has specified a certain part for my bike, why should I be changing part of it off. Wouldn't honda just include the correct contact. I would understand if maybe I was taking that part off another bike, and if it wasn't actually made for my bike. But this is a Honda specified original part. Any info on this would be great, as I still have to replace the rear CCT, after I have finished rebuilding my front head, and reinstalling it.
As for the rubber ends, I don't understand why I am supposed to change out the caps. If Honda has specified a certain part for my bike, why should I be changing part of it off. Wouldn't honda just include the correct contact. I would understand if maybe I was taking that part off another bike, and if it wasn't actually made for my bike. But this is a Honda specified original part. Any info on this would be great, as I still have to replace the rear CCT, after I have finished rebuilding my front head, and reinstalling it.
05-15-2006, 06:56 AM
#10
Junior Member
Squid
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5
the steel end cap is a separate part so you dont get 1 when you order just the cct
see here its part number 6
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...98/E__0400.gif
see here its part number 6
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-...98/E__0400.gif
05-15-2006, 10:23 AM
#11
Member
Squid
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 76
Okay, I can see in the picture that the CCT doesn't have a pad on there, but the ones I got from Honda have a pad on them. It would make sense to use the original ones if they didn't come with anything, but the fact that they come with new rubber ones, shouldn't we use them? Has anyone used the rubber ones?
05-21-2006, 12:42 PM
#12
Member
Squid
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Morrison Colorado
Posts: 60
cct
I have the new ones and they are all rubber if you pull the steel end caps off the old ones will be rubber as well theses caps are reused or you have to order new ones you dont have to have them on and yes your bike will be one thousand times quieter but you will have rapid wear and will need to
replace soon after. trust me I did the same thing had to dissaseble and reistall with the steel caps off the old ones (again just pull them off the old tentioners and put them on the new ones THEY DO NOT COME WITH THEM!!)
replace soon after. trust me I did the same thing had to dissaseble and reistall with the steel caps off the old ones (again just pull them off the old tentioners and put them on the new ones THEY DO NOT COME WITH THEM!!)
05-22-2006, 12:05 AM
#13
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Superstock
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 402
My friend Mic decided to go with the OEM CCTs.
We pulled the valve covers off...no picnic...drain coolant, remove airbox, carbs, undercarb plastic plate, and lastly the valve covers.
Starting on the rear cyl.
First, we set the timing marks to RT (rear TDC), marked three chain sprocket orientations (3, 9, and 12 o'clock) with white out and noted that the rear cyl sprockets show the R-I and R-E marks line up in parallell to the valve cover mating surface (3 and 9 o'clock). The cam lobes were pointing in toward each other (not at each other).
The rear CCT was removed and compared with the new CCT.
No broken spring on the original but the spring tension is roughly half that of the new CCT (guessing by feel). Also the new CCT has an orange dot vice the pink dot on the original CCT. The metal caps that were also ordered were put over the rubber ends on the new CCT (I could have used the original metal caps but they did have some wear on them already). Once the rear was replaced we moved to the front cyl.
The front cyl for was set for FT (two rotations). Again the sprockets on the front cyl showed the R-I and R-E marks parallell to the valve cover mating surface. This time the cam lobes were pointing out away from each other. CCT replaced with the new one.
The cam chain used in our bikes appears to be very stiff so I can see how it would easily jump teeth if anything moved a little. With the valve covers off and white out marks this should not go unnoticed.
I wanted to check the "look through the bolt hole" idea someone mentioned in a post. From what I saw the cam lobes were pointing straight up (not toward the speedo) when the rear cyl. is at RT. Take the time to do the job right and pull the valve cover (s) off.
We pulled the valve covers off...no picnic...drain coolant, remove airbox, carbs, undercarb plastic plate, and lastly the valve covers.
Starting on the rear cyl.
First, we set the timing marks to RT (rear TDC), marked three chain sprocket orientations (3, 9, and 12 o'clock) with white out and noted that the rear cyl sprockets show the R-I and R-E marks line up in parallell to the valve cover mating surface (3 and 9 o'clock). The cam lobes were pointing in toward each other (not at each other).
The rear CCT was removed and compared with the new CCT.
No broken spring on the original but the spring tension is roughly half that of the new CCT (guessing by feel). Also the new CCT has an orange dot vice the pink dot on the original CCT. The metal caps that were also ordered were put over the rubber ends on the new CCT (I could have used the original metal caps but they did have some wear on them already). Once the rear was replaced we moved to the front cyl.
The front cyl for was set for FT (two rotations). Again the sprockets on the front cyl showed the R-I and R-E marks parallell to the valve cover mating surface. This time the cam lobes were pointing out away from each other. CCT replaced with the new one.
The cam chain used in our bikes appears to be very stiff so I can see how it would easily jump teeth if anything moved a little. With the valve covers off and white out marks this should not go unnoticed.
I wanted to check the "look through the bolt hole" idea someone mentioned in a post. From what I saw the cam lobes were pointing straight up (not toward the speedo) when the rear cyl. is at RT. Take the time to do the job right and pull the valve cover (s) off.
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