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New bike 1998 VTR100 lean or rich?

Old 04-26-2013, 05:46 PM
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New bike 1998 VTR100 lean or rich?

I just picked up a vtr1000. I am trying to figure out the issue with this bike.

Here's some symptoms I'm experiencing.

When you first start it up it will accelerate like a raped ape pulling the front wheel up no problem. Then after you ride it for a while it starts to bog.

So when I first got it I rode it to bring it home and it started bogging out on me. Full throttle and no power. Down shifted, slightly better, but still full throttle no power. Then it got worst, half throttle no power, then quarter throttle no power, then it died. This all happened within about 2 minutes. I guessed it needed gas because my gas light was on. Started the bike back up and tried to get to the gas station. It managed to get there fine, except it ran rough. After I got gas, I had the same issues. Ended up getting my friend to come get me and my bike.

Then I got it home, went for a test ride to see if it would work again. Again full throttle initially and no bog. Accelerates rapidly. Then the problem gets worst again.


Heres some symptoms.

1. The bike initially idles at about 2100 rpm's. It will eventually fall to about 1500 rpm's.
2. When letting the clutch out in first you really gotta give it a decent amount of gas or it will bog out and stall. It's very rough getting it into first until your moving at about 10 mph (Is this normal? First 2 cylinder bike)
3. When I started it a moment ago it back fired and a flame came out one of the exhausts.
4. There is black soot all over the inside of the exhaust tips.
5. The bike does not like cruising at a steady speed. Very irregular, hessitant etc. Accelerating is much smoother, but you can still feel it. Almost like its missing.
6. Back fires accelerating and decelerating.


All of the above shows signs of being rich right? However, the exhausts look like they are very lean coming from the cylinder heads. White-ish look almost.


Now if it's running rich, this leads me to my next question.

What should the A/F screws be set to? Also I'm assuming the idle needs to be adjusted down. I think the guy previous to me had it high because he probably had a rough time getting the bike into first gear without a high idle because of the rich condition.

Anything I should look for when cleaning / syncing / adjusting A/F on the carbs?

Last edited by Chrisguilday; 04-26-2013 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:49 PM
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Sounds like PVLIR. Possibly a vacuum leak. No doubt needs the carbs cleaned.
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:51 PM
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Comfirmed carbs need to be cleaned. Guy said it was sitting for months before he started it. Vacuum leak? I seriously hope not. Had nightmares with my yzf600r that had a vacuum leak.


What's pvlir?
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:56 PM
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Nevermind I looked it up. Gas hose is hooked up correctly to the petcock.
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
Nevermind I looked it up. Gas hose is hooked up correctly to the petcock.
It's not the gas line you need to worry about, it is the vacuum line.

First thing to do is to take the carbs apart and clean them.
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:21 PM
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:22 PM
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Yeah I did buy that one for $1800
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:49 PM
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i would def do the following

1) take all coolant out, oil, and clutch fluid
2) take carbs off, spend the 14$ while you are at it on #48 jets, rejet the carbs as hawks write up suggests
3)bleed clutch with new fluid per service manual
4)check carbs slides, float, etc are in good shape ans make sure you KNOW what you are looking at as to tell if it is bad or not, their is a downloadable PDF on site
5) put new oil. coolant, put all back together, with synced carbs(lots of write-ups, I am still learning correctly) take your time, look up manual, know what u are looking at.. with 30k miles, i have the same amount on my bike... I am about to do a massive overhaul as I have a problem I have to figure out, so I Will have TONS of pictures, and stuff to help people like you and future owners help out with, to pay back the members for all the help and the long long ramblings and question and after questions I have asked, it is the least I can do to become a part of the community, I will glady do it step by step if it would help you, but if you follow those, also install new spark plugs, make sure you have the foam filter in the airbox, do the PAIR removal and also do the TPS mod to makes sure it is at 500+/-... you can do all that with the carbs off.... also on the exhaust part... i have learned that after 30k miles there are copper gaskets in the mufflers that go bad / get worn out and get sucked in.... i am about to replace those as well, before you sync your carbs i would recommend that cheap upgrade... now I am still new and still learning/ so I could be wrong on some things... but what I have said will not take you long/ lots of help here/ and you will make sure to do it right.. i've taken my carbs off 10 diff times... i am now putting it on stands for 2 weeks and doing a whole gasket/overhaul on everything I can think of that I can do myself as my bike has 35k miles and from europe, I am acting like it was never taken care of, and trying to get it as brand new as possible, so I can have a better peace of mind at 100mph on the freeway... any questions or help ask away on here, don't pm me... i would rather be wrong and be corrected than you not know im wrong in a pm . just trying to help, I have more patience to answer longer questions because I am new... alot of these guys have answered question 1-20 10,000 times over and over, so short and sweet answers it what you will get alot... I will try to help new guys out to pay it back,

-Shane
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:49 PM
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also when you take jets / pilots off.. make sure wholes are cleaned
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:15 PM
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There's a chance I just figured out what's wrong with the bike. Or, I broke part of the carburetor when I was pulling it off. One of the two.

Now if I'm not mistaken, the picture below is a picture of the choke mechanism right? It was just hanging there like that. There's one on the other carb that is not hanging. Does it screw into the carb or some thing? I can't seem to figure this out. Maybe it's broken.

If it was hanging there like that, would that cause my bike to be on half choke or some thing?


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Old 04-26-2013, 08:35 PM
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Well after further investigation I have found out that the part that screws into the carb broke off inside of the carb. I highly doubt I did this because I never messed with this piece. I am guessing this has to be why I am having so many issues. What can I do to fix this? Here's a pic. You can see the black piece still inside.


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Old 04-26-2013, 08:49 PM
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Common.
All it takes is a wrong tug, tight choke cable to break that plastic fitting.
a small pick or small flat blade screw driver sharpened a bit and you can back the broken part out of the Carb body.
Three choices
Order a new one, install.
Valve Starter, Set $23.67 each
Mfg. Part Number: 16046-MBB-640

Look up the guy selling brass replacements, buy and install.

Buy the Polaris ones, modify them, install
Go from there

Last edited by E.Marquez; 04-26-2013 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:55 PM
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Ya don't say eh? I just broke the second one putting it back in. So now I got two broken choke cable bit thingies. Lovely.


At least I know what's wrong with the bike.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
Ya don't say eh? I just broke the second one putting it back in. So now I got two broken choke cable bit thingies. Lovely.


At least I know what's wrong with the bike.
In my opinion, just order same one off eBay if u can get it under 20$, or post in classifieds for one...yes it happens, u only need to tighten it barely, it does not need to be "snugged" it's plastic, very fragile..if bike has 30k, I would still do the list I said..1-5..it's easy, it makes the bike run alot better...and u def wants all those old fluids out of there and new ones in, the tps is commonly set at 800-900 from factory, this was a mistake even in the manual it states 500 +- 10, it made a world of difference when I first got my hawk, me and you have about same mileage, at least it was something simple, maybe po did not notice this and you now do , maybe it was well taken care if if ur lucky, but as they stated may have be downed, but hawk in my opinion is a very strong bike
Cheers,
Shane
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Shane702 View Post
In my opinion, just order same one off eBay if u can get it under 20$,
Please post a link to an Ebay auction that has the OEM Honda starter valve set for under $20. Thats a great deal if you have a dealer selling that low thanks.

In any case.............
The better choice IMHO is to replace the OEM plastic part with a metal one.
This guy
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewto...it=brass+choke
Will sell you some for $18

Or buy um from a polaris dealer and modify them to fit.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...etainer-29791/

Replacing them with new plastic ones is silly.
Replacing them with USED plastic ones is worse than silly

Thanks

Last edited by E.Marquez; 04-26-2013 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:50 PM
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So if the screws are just dangling the carbs are fully choked right? So I'm hoping that I wasn't the one who broke the first one (I know I broke the second one) and that all that was wrong with the bike was it was getting one cylinder enrichened by the choke being broken.

So my symptoms make sense right? Bike would run good cold, but bad once it was running for a bit. That is typical if bikes are left running with the choke on. Correct?


I might (I know this is dumb) Temporarily super glue them together until I get the replacement cables. Then I will just break them again and throw the old ones out, and pull the old plastic bits out too.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:54 PM
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On full choke and a vacume leak.
Fix first, then continue diagnosis.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by E.Marquez View Post
On full choke and a vacume leak.
Fix first, then continue diagnosis.
I'm confused, what are you saying?

My bike is on full choke, and it has a vacuum leak?
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
I'm confused, what are you saying?

My bike is on full choke, and it has a vacuum leak?
Yes
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by E.Marquez View Post
Yes
Why do you think it has a vacuum leak?
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
......At least I know what's wrong with the bike.
You know of at least two things. I suspect there is more as does E.Marquez.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:04 PM
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Ok so I got both of the screws out. In the process of removing one of them, I damaged the valve set. Now I need to replace it. I am going to go ahead and just replace both. Where should I buy these?


Is this what I should get ? http://www.hondapartshouse.com/oempa...omponent-parts


Part 11. That includes the screw right?

Last edited by Chrisguilday; 04-27-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
Ok so I got both of the screws out. In the process of removing one of them, I damaged the valve set. Now I need to replace it. I am going to go ahead and just replace both. Where should I buy these?
If you need more than the screw in fitting, OEM is your choice.
I prefer my OEM parts from Ronayers.com
VALVE SET, STARTER - Search : 16046-MBB-640
the part number is
16046-MBB-640 for one set. $23.67
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:00 PM
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Thanks!! I feel like I'm getting to know this bike already. Taken the carbs off and on 4 times in the last 24 hours lol.

Really hope I wasn't the one who broke the choke screw and that really is the main problem.

It's normal for the bike not being able to start with the choke valves out right? Just making sure that's the reason it won't start right now.


By the way, what does the choke do on the vtr? Cut air? Allow more fuel? etc...

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Old 04-27-2013, 05:10 PM
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Yeah, that's pretty normal. Enough throttle and cranking and it *might* eventually start, but with sucking all that air through what used to be the choke circuit, I really doubt it.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:28 PM
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I absolutely can't wait for these valve things to arrive. Can't wait to ride this thing. Rode it a few miles with it running on half choke and it was still fast as hell and would pull the wheel up.

I have a question about the CCT's. How do I know if its going bad? This bike has 30k miles on it. Cosmetically rough so I'm not sure how much maintenance was done.

Also, the front break kind of grabs weird. Under medium / hard front break use it it will bite and then not bite. I'm thinking maybe there's a rough spot on the front rotor so when the breaks hit that point it bites harder / less hard or some thing. The guy said he replaced both brake rotors so I'm assuming the break pads are good too. Could there be air in the line? The rotors are relatively smooth I think. I didn't notice any rough spots but I am no expert. The rotors are not buttery smooth, but I think they are smoother then my old yzf600r's rotors and my yzf600r never did this weird breaking thing.

I will check the front rotor again for a rough spot. If it does have one, what can I do about it?
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
....I have a question about the CCT's. How do I know if its going bad? This bike has 30k miles on it. Cosmetically rough so I'm not sure how much maintenance was done.

Also, the front break kind of grabs weird. Under medium / hard front break use it it will bite and then not bite. I'm thinking maybe there's a rough spot on the front rotor so when the breaks hit that point it bites harder / less hard or some thing. The guy said he replaced both brake rotors so I'm assuming the break pads are good too. Could there be air in the line? The rotors are relatively smooth I think. I didn't notice any rough spots but I am no expert. The rotors are not buttery smooth, but I think they are smoother then my old yzf600r's rotors and my yzf600r never did this weird breaking thing.

I will check the front rotor again for a rough spot. If it does have one, what can I do about it?
You can not tell when the CCTs are going bad. Best to just change them to manuals or prepare for extensive engine work.

Rotors can warp like any other. You can try bleeding them as all of the fluids in your bike are probably due for a change.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:18 PM
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Rotors don't look warped or bent. No noticeably rough spots. I will bleed them when I can, hope it fixes it.

How hard is changing the CCT's? I honestly don't even know what they do. I am semi knowledgeable about motorcycle engines. Where are they located at?
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:37 PM
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Have a look in the Knowledge section.

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...pe-ccts-11275/

The cam chain tensioners are just that, they keep tension on your cam chains so that the cam gears do not not jump from their prescribed timing position. If they do, your engine will eat itself alive.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:43 AM
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Have you raised the front of the bike and spun the front wheel to look at the rotors? If not, then that is what you need to be doing. I don't remember the specification for front rotor runout, but it's not that much. If runout is good, get some 409 and a greenie and scrub both sides of each rotor. Wet sanding with 800 grit will do the same thing, but the greenie is cheaper.
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