saige

lol anything with a alcohol content is good

aja

I have a Black Butte Porter myself, its hard to hold a wrench when a bottle is in the way!

twist

let me see if I get this straight. With the front cylinder at TDC, and verified by cam position with valve cover off, the cam chain can still jump 1 or 2 teeth?
Shouldn't it have enough tension on it at TDC to keep it from moving as long as the mechanic stays steady and isn't too rough with pulling the CCT and replacing it?
It seems that zip tying the front cams would be difficult given the minimal amount of room and with having the valve cover only lifted high enough to verify cam timing marks.

Tebs

Hi Twist,

The front cam cover was NOT off per the instructions on the link. After firing up the bike (ran like crap) I then removed the front cam cover. Since "assuming" front TDC timing was accurate front, based on pulling the rear cam cover off only, then rotating the crank 450 degress (1 1/4 turns counter clockwise) to find TDC for the FRONT - that is where it jumped 2 teeth, and it was unknown until I started the bike and later confirmed by removing the front cam cover.

One thing I think we can all find in common regarding this new thread is, sometimes the timing for BOTH pistons is correct and sometimes not correct even though the rear is dead nuts on. I think what we can take from this is, plan on pulling both cam covers, and while your there, do scheduled maintanence like new plugs, PAIR removal .......and a trubo!

JK about the turbo -but you get the idea. Some guys get everything right the first time, unfortunately I was not one of them. Hopefully I didnt cause too much damage but I'll know this time tomorrow.

Cheers!

aja

TPS is a good thing to do while you have it torn down that far.

For the PAIR mod, I found it easier and more effective to flatten the stopper instead of reversing it. The hoses can stay hooked up if you don't care about the weight.

Tebs

Thanks VTRsurfer, Just finished the Formula 1 race and headed to the garage shortly. Hopefully I can get her fired up by this evening.

Tebs

Okay just moved the cam one notch (marked it with white out both on the cam gear and chain) and reassembled, tightened manual CCT and cycled the crank several revolutions.

Found rear TDC, everything lined up no problem, then rotated crank counter clockwise 1 1/4 turns and find I am now off the same distance I was before only in the opposite direction.

I put a straight edge on it and the intake valve center line looks crooked (off center) compared to both the exhaust valve and the top of the cylinder casing (see pic). I dont get it??

Or am I just not seeing straight and according to this pic it is straight??

aja

The marks will not be 100% straight. The cam lobes will tell you if they are in time, can you take a picture of those for us?

E.Marquez

Kind of..
If the chains are not WORN the marks will be correct. But once the chains wear, you will find the marks no longer are perfectly aligned.

But the point is correct, the cam lobs and general marks on sprockets will tell the truth.

Tebs

Yup...

Tebs

Buttoned everything off, double checked connections, added oil and coolant.....she purrs just like I remember ! NO stumble with throttle just raw V twin exhast note. AWESOME !

I cant say THANK YOU enough for all your help getting me through this week / project. Wow glad to put this one behind me!

Thanks !!!!

TJ91

Congrats man! Glad you got it all sorted out. Now for some videos

Tebs

Looks like its gonna rain so I just cracked one ! The Rolex race from Leguna is on Speed some I'm going to turn it on and clean this garage up!

Wicky

Well done - now check the valve clearances ;-)

saige

congrats,good to see its all working good now.

E.Marquez

Happy to read you got it figured out..

twist

nothing is quite as satisfying as solving a problem like this and gaining the insight and experience to do it again or know better, depending on who you are. You now know the insides of your bike well, it's a bonding experience! It now belongs to you forever!

Tebs

I couldnt agree more Twist. The bike is nearly done, hot pizza in my belly and the Steelers are winning - life is good!

99superhawk_Dom

I would make sure the hose you are connecting to the petcock is A) the correct hose, and B) has vacuum. Every time that i have taken my tank off gas has came out of the lines going to the carbs. Also i know this sounds stupid but is there gas in the tank?

Tebs

Fuel, vacuum and eveything connected correctly - timing was off and has since been corrected. All is well!

sdhawkrider

Man, thanks for the write up and all the pics of your trials and tribulations. I am installing the front head this weekend and was unsure of which way the cam lobes need to face when I set the timing. Thank you to everyone else who helped too!

Tebs

Follow up-

I'm about 80 miles on the bike after CCT replacement and I keep hearing a little vibration noise coming from (what I believe) to be the front cylinder. At first I thought it to be a small exhaust leak but have ruled that out. Its coming from the front cylinder so my question is this.

I believe it to be the front CCT but I'm not sure if it is too tight or too loose that is causing the noise. I have larger hands and, per APE instructions "finger tight then back 1/4 turn" was impossible since I couldnt really get my "fingers in there" to tighten the front CCT.

So I tightened the CCT the best I could (didnt feel that tight at all given the limited finger space) then went another quarter turn with a box wrench, and locked the lock nut down. Its not the fairing or anything else that I removed making the noise (I've pulled over several times during my ride to check things out) but sounds like its coming from the front timing chain.

The engine power is fine, acceleration is fine, and its not paranoia, I HEAR something and just thought I'd ask you guys if I may have over / under tightened the manual CCT? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Wicky

I fear you may have overtightened it

Tebs

How much is too much and how little is too little? Should I back it out a little? If so how much? Quarter turn at a time?

Hawkrider

I adjusted mine while my bike was warm and running. Initial setting on installation was finger tight. IIRC, when I did it I started running it in just a bit more but not so tight that you can hear a change in idle speed. That would be too tight. Not too loose that you'd hear chain slapping. I initial thought when I read your post is that yours are too loose.

Tebs

FYI - I dont notice much noise at idle - just a hint of a "tap tap tap" - until the 3000-3500 rpm mark but after that point it I can hear it from the 3000-35000 rpm's through the rev range but I didnt run it past 8000-8250 rpm since I could sense there was possibly an issue. Kind of sounds like there is an mechanical "echo" to be honest.

I appreciate it - I was very concerned it was too loose and was kind of slapping the tensioner, however from the 2 replys I've received I think the front is in fact a little tight. I'll back it off a tad and get back to the post tomorrow afternoon. Thanks again for your replys.

Tebs

Follow up -Sorry for the delay -I have an update to share.

I just finished tearing everything down to get to the front manual CCT. Before I did anything else I miked and measured the distance from the top lock nut to the bottom fixed jam nut and it measured .756. I then compared that to the rear CCT of .836. I believed the noise was coming from the front, so I backed the front CCT out 1/4 turn and that got me to .813, then I backed it out one more 1/4 turn and that got me to .826 +/-. Pretty damn close to the exact rear measurement.

Not sure if the front and the rear are supposed to be the same, but given the baseline measurement and then the total half turn back out, I reassembled everything.

She fired right up on the first try and the faint "tap tap tap" is non existant (at idle). Going to suit up and head out for a ride on this gorgeous fall day to test her through the rev range... fingers crossed.