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Gas in Oil ( Crankcase)

Old 09-26-2012, 07:13 PM
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Gas in Oil ( Crankcase)

It had been a while since I had turned on the SH, about two weeks, so I know it had some bad gas in it. I tried turning it on and it ran ok, but I could tell there was water in it. I put 93 to mix it up a bit and went to work. On my way back I ran out of gas (that sucked). Had my wife bring me gas and it turned on and brought it home. I parked it and the next few days, I tried to start it. It turned but sounded like it was Hydrolocked. I put it in second gear and rocked it back and forth. I tried again and it started. I figured it still had bad gas, so I ran it around the neighborhood. I then turned it off and turned it back on to turn the fan on. Does this dumb gas in the carbs when I do this? I check the oil window and I could see that there was gas in there. I changed the oil, and when I drained the oil it was coming out fine, then it gushed out about a gallon of gas afterwards! WTF it freaked me out. I let it drain completely left the plug open and the filter off to air dry the gas in there. I then put some new oil and new filter. Tried cranking and a no go. I rocked it back and forth in 3 gear. Turn the engine to off position cranked it for 5 seconds, then opened the throttle for 10 seconds. I tried again with engine on and it turned on. I could smell the crappy gas. I let it idle for a while then went around the block a few times, then check the window and no gas in it. I am planning to change the oil and filter again with some better oil. What could have caused this? Has this happened to anyone? Bike had been running good. Its running good now...but.....it freaked me out!!
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:43 PM
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It was in the carport. It was hot, then it rained, then it was cold, then hot again. Gotta love the Texas weather......I was thinking stuck floats.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:44 PM
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It was sitting no more then two weeks
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:46 PM
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I am hoping that tomorrow morning there is no gas in the oil.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:36 PM
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As VTRsurfer said, your situation points to a stuck float, or debris holding open one or both of the float needle valves. But that's not all it points to. If your petcock were working properly, it would only leak part of what was in the bowls into the cylinders and past the rings. But since it had MUCH MORE than that in the crank case and had been sitting two or so weeks (not enough time for gas to go off btw) it points to the petcock also leaking (it's vacuum activated, and shouldn't allow any gas to flow if the engine isn't running, unless the diaphragm or seat has failed). You'll want to test that petcock well, in addition to going through those carbs, or you'll likely have the same issue again. And as for starting it when it doesn't want to turn over and may be hydrolocked...if it were me, I'd think long and hard about forcing the issue trying to get it to turn over. That's a pretty easy way to bend a rod.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:53 PM
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+1 on the petcock. I had my Hawk hydrolock every other morning, I thought it was a bad battery. I checked my oil level after a week of no riding and it was above the sight glass. Emptied the sump and had 1 quart extra fluid in there...GAS. Well I had just replaced both floats, needles, and cleaned the carbs so I looked at the petcock and it would not hold a vacume. So check the vac, pull the line vacume lint to the petcock off and see if fuel trickels out.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:14 AM
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Thanks guys, I am about to check the petcock and the carbs. I definitely do not want a bent rod or broken starter gears.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:24 AM
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Squid when it happened to you that often, how did you properly unlock it? I know replacing the contaminated oil, filter, plugs. Clean carbs check vacuum lines and petcock. I just want to make sure if it happens again, to do it right. I went through the instructions of a flooded engine after I replaced the oil and oil filter and allowed the gas to evaporate. Is there certain steps to take before trying to start it after it's been hydrolocked? Of course after the carbs and petcock have been checked and gone through.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:32 AM
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Is that petcock activated when the key is turned to the on position?
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:16 AM
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No, the petcock is activated by the vacuum created by the pistons moving. It should be noted too, that if the needles and seats of the float valves are sealing/seating properly, it really shouldn't let fuel by when the engine isn't running, regardless of whether the petcock is working or not. So, honda basically has built in two levels of protection from getting gas in to the crankcase. If you are ending up with a sump full of gas, there is problems with both parts (the carbs and the petcock).

As far as un-hydrolocking the engine, I would make sure there isn't a gallon+ of fuel in the sump (smacking the pistons into a pool of fluid is terrible) and pull the spark plugs out (disconnect the power to the coil too so you don't light off the whole thing like a roman candle ) so that you aren't compressing fluid in the combustion chambers (fluid doesn't really compress, hence how you woud bend/break things).
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:25 AM
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Roger that! about to check carbs, petcock, and plugs now....and oil window..
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wyldryce View Post
No, the petcock is activated by the vacuum created by the pistons moving. It should be noted too, that if the needles and seats of the float valves are sealing/seating properly, it really shouldn't let fuel by when the engine isn't running, regardless of whether the petcock is working or not. So, honda basically has built in two levels of protection from getting gas in to the crankcase. If you are ending up with a sump full of gas, there is problems with both parts (the carbs and the petcock).

As far as un-hydrolocking the engine, I would make sure there isn't a gallon+ of fuel in the sump (smacking the pistons into a pool of fluid is terrible) and pull the spark plugs out (disconnect the power to the coil too so you don't light off the whole thing like a roman candle ) so that you aren't compressing fluid in the combustion chambers (fluid doesn't really compress, hence how you woud bend/break things).
Yeah brain farted that one, thanks for catching me on that. I dont know what caused the fuel leak to stop after I replaced the diaphram in the petcock, never really gave it a second thought. The main reason I found out the my sump was full of gas was that it started to Bog out at operating temp on WOT like it was running rich... which is what I assume to be the mass amount of fumes flowing thru the breather tube back into the combustion chamber thru the airbox. Maybe I still have a float valve problem? I guess Ill find out when I get back home from letting her sit for 6 months? DAMN I thought I had it all figured out. lol * Not thread Jacking, just giving props and thinking out loud*
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:57 AM
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Hey Squid let us know what happens, I am working on that now...mine just didn't start. And when I looked at the window it was past the mark with gas
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:59 PM
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Ok so I checked the window, and it clear of gas, as I was putting the bike up I smelled gas towards the rear and saw gas dripping from the connector of the exhaust! I put it up and disconnected the exhaust to get the gas out. Is this from the floats getting stuck and gas going straight through? It was almost half a quart! Good thing it didn't blow up! After I got it running again, I am worried hope nothing is damaged. Anyone have experiences this?

Last edited by Manny; 09-27-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Squid View Post
...I dont know what caused the fuel leak to stop after I replaced the diaphram in the petcock...
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:44 PM
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So I checked the vacuum line from petcock, and it wasn't leaking although slow and I mean very slow slow drop at a time. Is that normal? I check the spark plugs and the front was fine, the back was a little wet, not much, but did smell a little like gas. So I am assuming the rear carb was the culprit. The oil window is still free from gas, and don't smell or see a leak. I,am going to put everything back together and try to run sea foam. Has this happen to anyone? I am new to this bike, so any help appreciated. If this doesn't work the I will have to remove the carbs. Is the petcock ok as described?
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Manny View Post
Ok so I checked the window, and it clear of gas, as I was putting the bike up I smelled gas towards the rear and saw gas dripping from the connector of the exhaust! I put it up and disconnected the exhaust to get the gas out. Is this from the floats getting stuck and gas going straight through? It was almost half a quart! Good thing it didn't blow up! After I got it running again, I am worried hope nothing is damaged. Anyone have experiences this?
I had the same thing happen to me. Thats how I figured out that there was an issue, minus the gas in the oil. my exhaust didnt leak / drip fuel, It stated up for a short bit (3 seconds) and spit fuel out the cannisters. All it is, is that fuel is leaking from one or both carbs, into the head and cylinder. If there is a piston at or near TDC with the exhaust valves not seated the fuel dumps right down into the exhaust, or it you dump the fuel into the exhaust when the piston moves up toward TDC on the Exhaust stroke. Scary s*&t. Also Manny, I wont be home till January so I hope you have it figured out before I do. Did you tap the float bowls while they were filling up to try and seat the float valves ? it shoud happen on its own since there is a not alot of room for the valve to move around in but worth a shot.
Also, If you dont use the bike every day, remove the air box and leave the fuel "ON" and look down the throats of the carb and see if you can atleast see where the leak is from. If you dont see one, start it up for a few seconds, kill it and look then. You will be able to tell what part in the carb is leaking. Its more take apart and put back together but its diagnostic work. Let me know what you find.

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Old 09-27-2012, 05:27 PM
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I have had some success by disassembling the petcock, cleaning everything, and coating with some light silicone spray. I also *slightly* stretched the spring in there to help it close. You might want to give this a shot before you go dropping cash on a rebuild kit or new petcock. As for the carbs, why is anything getting through there anyways? There is a fine mesh strainer on the petcock to prevent such a thing. Anyway, a good carb cleaning using some solvent and air should do the trick. Check the fuel lines for breakdown. It could be little rubber pieces holding the float valves open. These bikes ain't young anymore.
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:35 PM
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Well I found the rear carb to be the problem. I checked the spark plugs and the front was dry and smelled like it should and the rear was a little wet with gas. I cranked it with engine off and cleared the cylinder, then let it air dry for an our before putting the spark plug back. The plug looked good after I cleaned it. I turned it on, and seemed to burn something as it smoked a bit like bad gas with water. After leaving it on for a few.minutes I took it for a soon to the gasoline station and put almost a gallon of 93 and an ounce of seam foam. I ran it a few minutes and it seems to run good. I am still worried about the rings. Should I be? I just hope that tomorrow there is no gas in the oil window or the.cylinder. Should I put an ounce or two in the cylinders with marvelous oil? Let it sit for an hour then crank it to push it out to deal the rings?
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:37 PM
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Hawkrider, when I checked the petcock line, it was not leaking gas, but a slow and I mean slow slow drop at a time. Is that ok?
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:34 PM
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SO I checked the bike after work and no gas in crankcase, but I noticed gas dripping from the exhaust connector....gas must be dripping into the exhaust.... Would that be the petcock? I am going to have to clean the carbs and petcock...I wonder if the cylinder is filled with gas..
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:01 PM
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Manny, as far as the petcock sealing goes, honestly mine has been leaking by for years. Even after disassembly, cleaning, and lubrication as I posted earlier, the thing has still stuck open in the past. Now I'm not taking the tank off every other week so it's difficult to say how often it's sticking open. What I DO know is that my float valves are sealing fine because I have no issues whatsoever with gas in the oil or hydrolocking a cylinder. Is this the right answer? Well, technically no, but it works for me and I sleep fine at night. So the answer to your question is really what makes you comfortable. A really slow drip may be okay for you if you're confident the the carb's ability to keep it from getting any further.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkrider View Post
Manny, as far as the petcock sealing goes, honestly mine has been leaking by for years. Even after disassembly, cleaning, and lubrication as I posted earlier, the thing has still stuck open in the past. Now I'm not taking the tank off every other week so it's difficult to say how often it's sticking open. What I DO know is that my float valves are sealing fine because I have no issues whatsoever with gas in the oil or hydrolocking a cylinder. Is this the right answer? Well, technically no, but it works for me and I sleep fine at night. So the answer to your question is really what makes you comfortable. A really slow drip may be okay for you if you're confident the the carb's ability to keep it from getting any further.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:34 PM
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I am going to have to do what vtr surfer said , take plugs off check for gas in cylinder two, I am sure it's got gas, since exhaust is leaking gas. I checked today and there is no more gas leaking. I know the gas tank has more then what it's leaked. It all points to the floats. They must be dirty. I did put sea foam, so that will help from it getting worse. I am going to check the petcock valve again. Bike was running great, no problems, till I ran out of gas, put some gas in the bike, then didn't run it for two weeks, that's when the problem started....sucks...carbs, then petcock, hopefully that will be the cure. Has anyone put marvelous oil in the cylinder after they have been full of gas? Or does it matter? As long A the gas evaporates or is taken out?
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:40 PM
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I didn't know you ran out of gas when this whole saga started. That was kind of a key point. It's not supposed to happen, but somehow when you run out of gas all the **** in the bottom of the tank somehow ends up in the carbs. Doesn't make sense to me that it doesn't happen when the tank is full...but I digress.

As far as Marvel Mystery Oil goes (not marvelous haha), that's not really required, or recommended. The biggest concern here is that if your cylinder is full of gas, then some is GUARANTEED to have leaked down past the rings and mixed with your engine oil. It then requires changing or you risk engine damage from the thinned oil. There is a possibility of an explosion too but I've never heard of that happening.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:05 AM
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UPDATE

After looking for a petcock kit, I decided to just get a new one and replace it....solved the problem. Petcock had a small leak, but a small drip after a day was like half a quart. Hope it helps to anyone experiencing this.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:48 AM
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Nice. Glad you found the problem. Having a cylinder or two full of fuel sucks, or blows. Get out and ride it while you can! Thanks for noting your fix to help others like me.
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