Electrical Advice-Connections
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Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 273
From: Pompano Beach, Fl.
Electrical Advice-Connections
I'm about to extend the bars on this Hawk about 8 inches and there are 17 wires to extend which means 34 joints to either solder or crimp. Now, crimping is easier and may be ok for the currents involved but solder is always better according to some techs. What would you do? The fairing must come off to be fixed, itself, which is another story and all wires clipped and pieced out while on the bike. Would crimp connections handle the loads ok? I'm concerned about the high/low beam switch wires more than anything else. I've got a set of DanMoto bars which look like they'll work without cutting the fairing, which ain't gonna happen no matter what. Your thoughts/experience please and thanks----Bud
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
The currents doesn't matter... Corrosion matters... A crimp will work load wise, but it's very, very bad idea to have 34 of them in that way... Ideally, you'd replace the wires, not lenghten them... Or at least open up the connector in one end and lenghten it there, making it only one splice per wire...
Solder it, and use shrinktube with pre-applied heatglue, not tape... If you don't use the pre-applied, at least use heatskrink, tape is for lazy and stupid people...
Otherwise you have 34 perfect places for corrosion and trouble to develop in 1-2 years time... And that is about the time it takes for you to "forget about them" ie, you know they are there, but won't check them until they really become a problem, leaving you stranded...
And like Wicky said, Eastern Beaver kits take the load off the substandard wiring, and uses wires that are really speced for the load instead...
Solder it, and use shrinktube with pre-applied heatglue, not tape... If you don't use the pre-applied, at least use heatskrink, tape is for lazy and stupid people...
Otherwise you have 34 perfect places for corrosion and trouble to develop in 1-2 years time... And that is about the time it takes for you to "forget about them" ie, you know they are there, but won't check them until they really become a problem, leaving you stranded...
And like Wicky said, Eastern Beaver kits take the load off the substandard wiring, and uses wires that are really speced for the load instead...
Last edited by Tweety; Feb 5, 2012 at 02:01 AM.
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Back Marker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 160
From: Farnorcal
well it sounds like your stuck between using crimp connectors and tape vs soldering. Either way will work but with all those connections its going to look pretty bulky, and it wont be protected the best. Bikes are exposed to elements so problems can had down the road.
From the pics, your bike looks pretty clean so I would say solder it too.
Its a little more work but youll be rewarded with a clean wiring that should be trouble/ worry free.
Buy a good solder gun. The right wire and solder. I usually dont rec. Harbor Freight or not sure if you even have one by you, but they sell the shrink wrap in a kit. It gives you like 5 different sizes in long lengths. The stuff works great. What I like to do is slip a smaller shrink tube cut to length on each wire before soldering. Then after soldering wire, slide the smaller tube over and heat up with either heat gun or little butane torch with the right tip on it.
Then when all the wires in each harness are done.... Slip a larger shrink tube over them all and shrink that down. Like I said the shrink tube I get is like 4feet long so I shrink the whole harness. That way it looks clean and stock.
Like I said a little more work but its rewarding.
From the pics, your bike looks pretty clean so I would say solder it too.
Its a little more work but youll be rewarded with a clean wiring that should be trouble/ worry free.
Buy a good solder gun. The right wire and solder. I usually dont rec. Harbor Freight or not sure if you even have one by you, but they sell the shrink wrap in a kit. It gives you like 5 different sizes in long lengths. The stuff works great. What I like to do is slip a smaller shrink tube cut to length on each wire before soldering. Then after soldering wire, slide the smaller tube over and heat up with either heat gun or little butane torch with the right tip on it.
Then when all the wires in each harness are done.... Slip a larger shrink tube over them all and shrink that down. Like I said the shrink tube I get is like 4feet long so I shrink the whole harness. That way it looks clean and stock.
Like I said a little more work but its rewarding.
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Back Marker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 231
From: Saint Paul, MN
Those look like the Apex clip-0n risers; are they? I have a set of their 3" risers and have been waiting for warmer weather to put them on. I was just planning on new stainless steel brake and cable lines. I take it you've measured and found the wiring to be too short? I didn't think that was going to be an issue.
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MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
Please don’t use HF shrink tube for a project like this, it’s crap stuff.
You want a quality adhesive lined shrink tube like 3M™ Heat Shrinkable Adhesive Lined Polyolefin Tubing http://www.3m.com/product/information/Heat-Shrink-Adhesive-Lined-Tubing.html
Properly crimped connectors covered in quality heat shrink tube is the gold standard for high performance needs, in high vibration no fail applications. Like Aerospace and Airplanes, military equipment, ect An A&P Mech cannot even use a solder repair, it must be crimped, and stress relieved, and protected.
In your application and without having the very expensive tool and crimps at hand, a quality soldered joint, using quality marine grade wire, and heat shrink adhesive lined tubing would be a better option.
WAYTEK is a great company to order on line from for all your electrical wiring needs. There are others, but this one has supplied me well for years.
Here is a nice article on solder less connections
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
You want a quality adhesive lined shrink tube like 3M™ Heat Shrinkable Adhesive Lined Polyolefin Tubing http://www.3m.com/product/information/Heat-Shrink-Adhesive-Lined-Tubing.html
Properly crimped connectors covered in quality heat shrink tube is the gold standard for high performance needs, in high vibration no fail applications. Like Aerospace and Airplanes, military equipment, ect An A&P Mech cannot even use a solder repair, it must be crimped, and stress relieved, and protected.
In your application and without having the very expensive tool and crimps at hand, a quality soldered joint, using quality marine grade wire, and heat shrink adhesive lined tubing would be a better option.
WAYTEK is a great company to order on line from for all your electrical wiring needs. There are others, but this one has supplied me well for years.
Here is a nice article on solder less connections
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf
Last edited by E.Marquez; Feb 5, 2012 at 09:49 AM.
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SuperSport
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 700
Some of you will most likely disagree, but I would not solder cut wires together.
I just installed in bar wiring to a Harley Dyna and used double ended female crimps. I cut and crimped each wire synagogues different spot so I didn't have a big bulge.
The reason I wouldn't use solder is that with the amount of vibration these vtwins cause, it can cause the solder to break if you didn't do a very good job.
Of course crimps connectors can corrode, but if you use the right shrink tube it shouldn't be a problem.
Either would be just fine, its up to you. Like tweety said it would be best to use new wire, but that can be a big job.
I just installed in bar wiring to a Harley Dyna and used double ended female crimps. I cut and crimped each wire synagogues different spot so I didn't have a big bulge.
The reason I wouldn't use solder is that with the amount of vibration these vtwins cause, it can cause the solder to break if you didn't do a very good job.
Of course crimps connectors can corrode, but if you use the right shrink tube it shouldn't be a problem.
Either would be just fine, its up to you. Like tweety said it would be best to use new wire, but that can be a big job.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 273
From: Pompano Beach, Fl.
The currents doesn't matter... Corrosion matters... A crimp will work load wise, but it's very, very bad idea to have 34 of them in that way... Ideally, you'd replace the wires, not lenghten them... Or at least open up the connector in one end and lenghten it there, making it only one splice per wire...
Solder it, and use shrinktube with pre-applied heatglue, not tape... If you don't use the pre-applied, at least use heatskrink, tape is for lazy and stupid people...
Otherwise you have 34 perfect places for corrosion and trouble to develop in 1-2 years time... And that is about the time it takes for you to "forget about them" ie, you know they are there, but won't check them until they really become a problem, leaving you stranded...
And like Wicky said, Eastern Beaver kits take the load off the substandard wiring, and uses wires that are really speced for the load instead...
Solder it, and use shrinktube with pre-applied heatglue, not tape... If you don't use the pre-applied, at least use heatskrink, tape is for lazy and stupid people...
Otherwise you have 34 perfect places for corrosion and trouble to develop in 1-2 years time... And that is about the time it takes for you to "forget about them" ie, you know they are there, but won't check them until they really become a problem, leaving you stranded...
And like Wicky said, Eastern Beaver kits take the load off the substandard wiring, and uses wires that are really speced for the load instead...
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SuperBike
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Essex, UK
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World Champion
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 105,287
From: Fulton, MO
Okay, I'll throw in one more recommendation: Make an extension harness. Check out a website like Electrical Connectors and buy the right connectors and plugs that you need and just make a 6" extension. That way you're not cutting into the stock wiring harness and can go back to stock if you ever want to.
MandownMertech
Superstock
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 289
From: Sacramento / NorcaL
you sure there's not enough slack that can be had to fit two 2 inch higher ish (total difference) bars?
I solder way too many things way more often than i'd prefer and I would never solder 34 connections or even 17 unless of course i absolutely HAD to....
I solder way too many things way more often than i'd prefer and I would never solder 34 connections or even 17 unless of course i absolutely HAD to....
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Some of you will most likely disagree, but I would not solder cut wires together.
I just installed in bar wiring to a Harley Dyna and used double ended female crimps. I cut and crimped each wire synagogues different spot so I didn't have a big bulge.
The reason I wouldn't use solder is that with the amount of vibration these vtwins cause, it can cause the solder to break if you didn't do a very good job.
Of course crimps connectors can corrode, but if you use the right shrink tube it shouldn't be a problem.
Either would be just fine, its up to you. Like tweety said it would be best to use new wire, but that can be a big job.
I just installed in bar wiring to a Harley Dyna and used double ended female crimps. I cut and crimped each wire synagogues different spot so I didn't have a big bulge.
The reason I wouldn't use solder is that with the amount of vibration these vtwins cause, it can cause the solder to break if you didn't do a very good job.
Of course crimps connectors can corrode, but if you use the right shrink tube it shouldn't be a problem.
Either would be just fine, its up to you. Like tweety said it would be best to use new wire, but that can be a big job.
So in essence, your bunch of crimps however spaced out is more likely to break from vibration, more likely to corrode, even with the correct shrinktube with pre-applied glue, simply because there is a hollow space... They are also more likely to break from bending of the vire harness than a solder... So in short the only positive to a crimp is the same as there is to tape... Quick, easy and dumb, since you need to re-fix the problem once more in a while......
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SuperSport
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 700
Actually I do most definetly disagree... If you do such a **** poor job soldering that it could possibly break from vibration, it's not going to conduct very well either, and you will know it since the switch will likely be inoperable at that point... Other than that, a solder joint is most definetly less susceptible to vibration than a crimp is...
So in essence, your bunch of crimps however spaced out is more likely to break from vibration, more likely to corrode, even with the correct shrinktube with pre-applied glue, simply because there is a hollow space... They are also more likely to break from bending of the vire harness than a solder... So in short the only positive to a crimp is the same as there is to tape... Quick, easy and dumb, since you need to re-fix the problem once more in a while......
So in essence, your bunch of crimps however spaced out is more likely to break from vibration, more likely to corrode, even with the correct shrinktube with pre-applied glue, simply because there is a hollow space... They are also more likely to break from bending of the vire harness than a solder... So in short the only positive to a crimp is the same as there is to tape... Quick, easy and dumb, since you need to re-fix the problem once more in a while......
If you have the means and experience and don't plan to go back to oem, by all means solder them. I'm not arguing that solder is inferior, quite the opposite. But only if done right.
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SuperBike
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,082
From: Menifee, CA
I've also never experienced the problem of corrosion to any major extent, or minor for that matter if you don't count battery cables! Unless I lived in a high salt air area it wouldn't be a major source of concern for me.
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MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,066
From: NYC
On the other side, are you SURE you have to do all this? Both my hawks have riser bars (one apex the other heli) and I had no issues with wire length.
Brake lines yes but not wires. Just double check and I too would leave a way to return to stock.
Oh yeah, can you solder well? No one asked. I would recommend a butane soldering iron. Real hot real quick, won't heat the wires enuff to melt the insulation
This one works great Ace Hardware 2101947 Butane Soldering Iron, Butane Soldering Iron
Brake lines yes but not wires. Just double check and I too would leave a way to return to stock.
Oh yeah, can you solder well? No one asked. I would recommend a butane soldering iron. Real hot real quick, won't heat the wires enuff to melt the insulation
This one works great Ace Hardware 2101947 Butane Soldering Iron, Butane Soldering Iron
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 380
From: Warrenton Virginia
Lot's of true pros and electrical engineers solder while aerospace and other high demand standards use crimps so obviously either will work when done correctly. And done correctly means the same thing in both cases, a good connection, proper insulation and a little thought put into stress relief. The key here is going to be crimping or soldering well then protecting with quality shrink tube (I put it over liquid insulation but make sure the tube extend past the dried liquid) and ensuring no undue stress in the joint. But I wouldn't do any of it unless I absolutely had too.
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Lot's of true pros and electrical engineers solder while aerospace and other high demand standards use crimps so obviously either will work when done correctly. And done correctly means the same thing in both cases, a good connection, proper insulation and a little thought put into stress relief. The key here is going to be crimping or soldering well then protecting with quality shrink tube (I put it over liquid insulation but make sure the tube extend past the dried liquid) and ensuring no undue stress in the joint. But I wouldn't do any of it unless I absolutely had too.
However, a crimp simply can not be done properly with the cheapest possible tool and a handfull of crimps from the dimestore... A bargain priced soldering gun and solder however works just fine if you know how to use them...
If you want to crimp, spend the money for a good tool, get crimp connectors with pre-attached shrinktube... Those types are ready with a shrinktube and glue... Crimp them, and then use a heatgun and you get a good seal... Or spend the money for the individual parts done rigth... Either way, you will spend more than when soldering...
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Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 273
From: Pompano Beach, Fl.
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Superstock
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Posts: 273
From: Pompano Beach, Fl.
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