flyin_hawk

as Killer said:
"It may be true that there has never been a "nation" called Palestine, but the region has always been known as Palestine and historic sources have always called it Palestine."

Just because a group has no "country" does not mean they don't exist. Take the nomadic people of the Dobe, the Ju Hoansi. They are not like their neighbors yet are not a country, the lines are blurred. Do they deserve to be corralled and removed from their native lands, stripped of their rights as humans simply because they have no formal government? A little ethnocentric I think.

futurehawk

I don't hold anything against anyone who disagrees with me. Atheists? You choose your life as I've chosen mine. (Sounds like I wrote this before) But before anyone goes on comparing the death toll between "Christian" violence or "Muslim" violence, don't forget that neither side can claim the most murders in the name of their cause. Sorry, atheists, but Moa, Stalin and Hitler killed far more than any religious group, or even all of them together. Oops, forgot Pol Pot and the Killing Fields in Cambodia. All but Hitler in an effort to both remove God from their cultures (Opiate of the masses, that sort of bull) and secure Commiunist rule. Hitler, being Jewish (almost preposterous, you know?), trying to establish the Aryan Master Race.
Hitler: 6 million Jews, uncounted (but far less than 6 million) Christians. (One SS officer whose name escapes me at the moment liked rounding up Christians, then hanging them gently with piano wire so they could feel every sensation of the wire beheading them. Charming people, you know.)
Stalin: 30 million, not counting anyone lost in war. Purges, pogroms, etc. All to pomote fear so his rule would be secure. Incidentaly, he was Saddam's hero.
Moa: 60 million, just another Communist dictator acting like one.
Pol Pot and those party guys, the Khmer Rouge (sp?)?: around 10 million or more.
And this doesn't even get into the various wars and acts of genocide brought on by racist or tribal hatred. Craotia? Sarejevo? Rwanda? Any of this ringing a bell?
Neither ethnic cleansing nor atheist socialists (all of the above dictators) can make the history of Churchianity look better. Truly the Church (Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal) is probably the best reason to not think of being a Christian. I'm certainly not against Christians - I'm on of them, and I've met many in quite a few denominations who are wonderful people - or anyone who tries to serve God faithfully, but goodness gracious, sometimes it looks like the wolf is gaurding the henhouse while asking more to come in. So I understand anyone looking at the Church and saying "No way!" That's why I don't go to one. It's also why the number of humans that I trust is zero. Not even myself. A hard learned lesson getting here.
So please remember all of our various beliefs have plenty of people that claim what we believe, yet do things that make us think of blending with the wallpaper. Or hastily exiting, stage left, right or whatever is available.
Anyway, when I started this, I wasn't shoving anything down anyone's throat. I was simply mentioning trends in our society that would worry me if I hadn't expected them. It's still disconcerting to see, but at least I understand it.
Everybody take a massive chill pill, OK? I'm sorry if I offended anyone, now or in the past posts on this (or any other) thread.
Or don't click on the thread and maintain some semblance of peace of mind.
Better yet, go ride some, do some remedial cornering and get a grin going!

superbling

I've been ignoring this thread based on the title alone but alas curiosity and post count got me to check. I'm so disappointed to see threads like this one and others are popping up recently on an otherwise great MOTORCYCLE site.

Kuddo's for at least putting them in the correct forum but starting topics on religion, politics, morals, ethics and other ideologies really serve no purpose other than to incite. Next time, write it and wait 24 hours before posting and then ask yourself if it really is worthy of superhawkforum.com and its members. Or just get your own blogsite and flame away.....

flyin_hawk

Ok, first of all, the 30M that died under Stalin's rule includes all the deaths of WWII. Would we say that Eisenhower and Truman killed all the american soldiers? I think not. And you shouldn't apologize for offending anyone. If you offend no one, you are doing something wrong. That is what is great about the interweb. Freedom of speech, it's a beautiful thing. Isn't this one of the freedoms we are fighting for?

Woof

"You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts."

Hitler was Catholic, and was supported by the Catholic church all the way to the end.

Stalin was an atheist, but that's not why he killed millions of people. He killed millions of people because he was a raving paranoid asshat. Same for his buddies Mao (Moa?) and Pol Pot.

As for the recent Croatia/Serbia unpleasantness... that was Catholics vs Orthodox Christians vs Muslims.

Woof

killer5280

The 30 million number for Stalin doesn't include the WWII deaths. Government is and has always been the most murderous force on the planet, and Communists and Socialists of other stripes (yes, Hitler was a Socialist) have been the most prolific government killers. Collectivism kills.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

Hawk9807