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Latest OCMD project: modded airbox lid

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Old Sep 24, 2014 | 09:26 AM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by NZSpokes
We are 3 for 3.

Holy F%#$
Originally Posted by NZSpokes
So I just need to sort out the bottom end and cruise. Mid and top is stunning. Im on 2 and 2 1/4 turns out on my idles. Will add half a turn tomorrow. Bit surgy on part throttle. But the rest. WOW. And the sound. WOW.

I dont want more power than it now has.

Thanks to the pioneers of this mod. It works.
Damn straight it works! Glad you got the carbs tuned. That is probably the hardest part of this mod. Especially with old, hard rubber engine isolators (the things that attatch the carbs to the engine). New engine isolators are ~$17 ea. I ordered mine, but they arrived after I tuned the carbs. Go figure.


So, who's next? 7moore7, you start yet?
Old Sep 24, 2014 | 09:55 AM
  #182  
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Not yet... busy trying to find another vehicle for the lady who drove through 5" of water with a CAI in her dodge neon and reverse snorkeled a bunch of water into her manifold!

Maybe this weekend..? I have the stuff but no extra jets... can we get a pic of the lid in this town?
Old Sep 24, 2014 | 11:38 AM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by 7moore7

Maybe this weekend..? I have the stuff but no extra jets... can we get a pic of the lid in this town?
I did in post #137
Old Sep 24, 2014 | 11:40 AM
  #184  
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So will head off on my commute to work in half an hour. See what she is like at normal speeds.
Old Sep 24, 2014 | 12:00 PM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by 7moore7
Not yet... busy trying to find another vehicle for the lady who drove through 5" of water with a CAI in her dodge neon and reverse snorkeled a bunch of water into her manifold!

Maybe this weekend..? I have the stuff but no extra jets... can we get a pic of the lid in this town?
See my F.I.L. mod in posts #61 and also #81.

Sucks to hear about your woman's ride!
Old Sep 24, 2014 | 12:56 PM
  #186  
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Rode to work and bottom end was still rough and surging. Pulled over and added another half turn of idle screw. Much better. Im now at 2.75 and 3 turns and not perfect. I think she needs 54s. Pipes are turning a nice almost brown colour.
Old Sep 25, 2014 | 12:19 AM
  #187  
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Ive got the fuel screws now at 3 and 3.25 turns out and it still feels lean. And when i stop the idle speed hangs at 1600rpm for 10 secs or so then it drops to 1000rpm. Guess the bigger air box volume needs bigger jets.
Old Sep 25, 2014 | 02:01 AM
  #188  
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Couple of things on my mind as random thoughts. Im aware the HRC kits came with different slides. I wonder if the slide valve cutaway is a different profile?

And I know that they plug the main air bleed, wonder what effect that would have with the FIL mod.

Lastly as I seem to need such big idle jets, wonder if there is a way to adjust the size of the pilot circuit air bleed?
Old Sep 25, 2014 | 04:31 AM
  #189  
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I have said HRC kit (am currently using the "rich" needles in my set-up), slides are the same, except for only having one lift hole.
Old Sep 25, 2014 | 04:59 AM
  #190  
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1 less hole in the slide make it go up faster right ?
Old Sep 25, 2014 | 09:49 AM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by RoadManiac
1 less hole in the slide make it go up faster right ?
Plugging one hole and having just one stock hole makes the slide go up slower.
Old Sep 25, 2014 | 10:39 AM
  #192  
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and why is that better ?
Old Sep 25, 2014 | 10:54 AM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by RoadManiac
and why is that better ?
It's not always better. It's all about getting the optimum amount of fuel for all rpm/s loads. So it's one of the many things to do to tune this.

Needle lifting sooner means you're into your mains sooner. If it lifts too fast, you'll be too rich in, say, the 3-5,000 rpms and just right at 5k and up. Getting smaller mains will make you perfect at 3-5krpm but too lean up higher. Adjusting the slide speed, whether through the spring or the air holes, allows you to slightly adjust when you get into your mains. This could go the other way around, too, depending on the bike and such (too slow into the mains).

Remember, too, that Honda had to make a tune that worked generally well at all elevations and pass emissions tests and relatively stable mpg's among other things that us lowly interneters probably don't consider which is why a lot of these adjustments can be made and improve on the stock system.

In this case 8541Hawk let us all in on his tuning trick from looking at the HRC system and the Superhawks he's tuned in the past. Plugging a lift hole seems to help with a lot of people's bikes.

Last edited by 7moore7; Sep 25, 2014 at 10:57 AM.
Old Sep 25, 2014 | 01:24 PM
  #194  
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Got to work and balanced my carbs. They were a long way out. Must have been from the amount of time the carbs have been off. will do it for each jet change now.


Was about to go to 55s but decided to try going leaner on the screws. Bang, much better. Was going the wrong way. Surge at cruze much better. Now puffing a little black smoke on the needles so will drop a shim.


Getting there.
Old Sep 25, 2014 | 11:03 PM
  #195  
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Rode it home and is riding very well. Going on a 150k ride tonight with some fast boys. Will see how we go. Cruze is far better but only 1 and 1 1/4 turns on the screw.

Taking a shim out may help this so wont change the idles to 50s yet.

Very happy with it. Wont be going back.
Old Sep 26, 2014 | 08:35 AM
  #196  
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I have a donor K&N from my XX.
Now to get an airbox lid before we have a mad dash of SH owners hittin ebay!!
Old Sep 26, 2014 | 11:23 AM
  #197  
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Big ride last night which was fast. Im no longer needing more power. Power wise bike is faster than I am.

Now to sort my forks and brakes....
Old Sep 26, 2014 | 03:32 PM
  #198  
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Sounds like another success.

Spoot, DO IT! No downside to the F.I.L. mod
Old Sep 26, 2014 | 07:16 PM
  #199  
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Just ordered an ebay air box earlier today. It had one watcher....sorry fellow SH owner.


got ship notification @ 2:43pm. expected delivery Oct 1.


I think I can hack away and graft the filter to the lid, but after that....I think I quickly exceed my knowledge for anything to do with the carbs. including removal. I may be hard pressed to identify the things.

Next, I imagine I need to order those main-airline-jet thingy things you guys are talking about...what do I need to get?
Old Sep 27, 2014 | 02:31 AM
  #200  
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Next, I imagine I need to order those main-airline-jet thingy things you guys are talking about...what do I need to get
LOL
I admire your willingness to go into something blind. Great learning opportunity. I suggest you have a read up on some of the carb/jetting threads while waiting on parts and attaching the filter to the lid.

You can get fuel jets from the following:
HONDA VTR1000 SUPERHAWK main jet slow air pilot kit

I have a spare airbox and K&N knocking around so I think am going to have a go at this in the near future.

(:-})
Old Sep 27, 2014 | 07:42 AM
  #201  
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Originally Posted by Spoot
Just ordered an ebay air box earlier today. It had one watcher....sorry fellow SH owner.


got ship notification @ 2:43pm. expected delivery Oct 1.


I think I can hack away and graft the filter to the lid, but after that....I think I quickly exceed my knowledge for anything to do with the carbs. including removal. I may be hard pressed to identify the things.

Next, I imagine I need to order those main-airline-jet thingy things you guys are talking about...what do I need to get?
Cool

When you have your lid made, hit me up. You are welcome to stop by and use my garage and tools. I can help you tune your carbs. This way, you don't have to buy a bunch if jets. You can use my jets and just pay me for the ones that end up in your carbs. If you clicked the link that Carl posted (that's where I get my jets from too), you see that the jets are pretty cheap.

You can also take my bike for a spin to see what the F.I.L. mod with a lightened flywheel feels like (I know you were contemplating that modification as well).

If Spoot takes me up on my offer and any other Superhawk owner around S.E. Wisconsin wants to stop by and see what the F.I.L. mod is all about and/or just wants to see how to remove our carbs and replace jets and lift/drop needles, you are more than welcome to stop by. I'll make a new thread about it, if this happens.

EDIT: Ah crap! Spoot, I forgot your bike isn't street legal. Is there a way we can put a brake light and headlight on it for some rides on the street? I have a couple Superhawk brake lights w/integrated turn signals we could use. Not sure what we could use for a headlight though.

Last edited by CruxGNZ; Sep 27, 2014 at 07:47 AM. Reason: He's got a freakin' race bike
Old Sep 27, 2014 | 11:00 AM
  #202  
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What you could do, and I am going to is get a spare set of carbs and airbox. Set one set up with the FIL mod and copy your jetting. Track side swaps then are easy.

Speaking of which after my next track day I will fit some stock stacks and see what they run like.
Old Sep 27, 2014 | 11:05 AM
  #203  
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Forgot to say. Also working on a way to make the air bleeds adjustable so you can fine tube the carbs without a Flow Commander.
Old Sep 27, 2014 | 02:59 PM
  #204  
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If Spoot takes me up on my offer and any other Superhawk owner around S.E. Wisconsin wants to stop by and see what the F.I.L. mod is all about and/or just wants to see how to remove our carbs and replace jets and lift/drop needles, you are more than welcome to stop by. I'll make a new thread about it, if this happens.
Next you lot will be holding workshop days :smile You can't beat first hand experiences and knowledge handed down the line and helping others. The ones learning then learn and when capable/confident of doing something themsleves can then pass the skills on to the next one with lessor knowledge.

Forgot to say. Also working on a way to make the air bleeds adjustable so you can fine tube the carbs without a Flow Commander.
The air bleeds are an interesting one. Air bleeds, bleed off the vacuum that draws the fuel through the fuel jets. IIRC A larger air bleed leans the mixture and a smaller richens it up.

Interesting how different jet kits deal with them. The FP race kit ( their high end jet kit CRB-H77-1.7-RK) comes with two different size drill bit's to enlarge the main air bleed.
1.4 (front) Drill Bit (for enlarging stock main air jet)
1.1 (rear) Drill Bit (for enlarging stock main air jet)

HRC have a cap to cap it off totally for when running with open airbox. This then require smaller mains, a lot smaller as capping it off has richened things up.

Neither of these are the same as a flow commander though as it's a fixed change and a flow commander is adjustable, but interestingly enough the flow commander uses the main air bleed. Maybe this works on the principle of opening up and closing off the main air bleed. Richens or leans!!! A bit like how a camera aperture works.

There's also the Emulsion tubes to consider as these are different front to rear. Factory Pro say that if your suffer from persistent over richness then replace the front one with another rear one.

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Note the position of the holes, front being closer to the bottom of the tube, so sunk further into the fuel.

The air from the air bleed enters the mains through the emulsion tube. The emulsion tube has a series of small holes from top to bottom, and it is through these holes air enters the main circuit. At low engine speeds, when fuel demand is low, these holes are submerged in fuel, and so no air can flow through them. As engine speed increases, the fuel level in the float bowl drops therefore uncovering these holes. This then allows air from the bleeds to enter the main circuit which leans off the mix. As engine speed increases the fuel level in the float bowl continues to drop which then uncovers even more of the holes in the emulsion tube, which makes the air bleed have a greater effect on the mixture.:think something like that anyway LOL

Carbs can be as easy or complicated as you want to make them. Also note the holes lower down in the carb throat from the pilot circuit that keeps the bike ticking over (idling) with the throttle plate (butterfly flap) fully closed.

Oh and It should be noted that there is an air bleed for the main circuit and pilot circuit on top of the carbs. The needle circuit is controlled by the slide lift holes.

(:-})

Last edited by cybercarl; Sep 27, 2014 at 03:14 PM.
Old Sep 27, 2014 | 04:07 PM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by cybercarl
Next you lot will be holding workshop days :smile You can't beat first hand experiences and knowledge handed down the line and helping others. The ones learning then learn and when capable/confident of doing something themsleves can then pass the skills on to the next one with lessor knowledge.
I got the idea from you blokes (did I use that word right? )

Thanks for the added info to this thread!
Old Sep 27, 2014 | 04:47 PM
  #206  
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Cybercarl, what my idea is to change the plugs with holes in to plugs with threads so I can screw in jets. So though not as roadside easy as a Flowcommander it would be fairly quick. Even quicker If I can make aplan to come up with a RH one so you dont even need to remove the stacks.

Thanks for the extra info. Very helpfull.
Old Sep 27, 2014 | 04:49 PM
  #207  
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Yesterday I dropped a shim out of each needle. Went for a quick ride and its very good, way better than when I started. But felt a little flat. So will go the other way today and add a bit more.
Old Sep 27, 2014 | 05:17 PM
  #208  
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Thumbs up

I got the idea from you blokes (did I use that word right? )


(:-})
Old Sep 28, 2014 | 12:26 PM
  #209  
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My current set up which is pretty much perfect.


48 idles 2.5 and 2.75 turns out


2mm shim front needle
2.5mm shim rear needle


198/200 mains


Alloy stacks.


Have a track day on Friday so will see what it is like there.
Old Sep 28, 2014 | 07:28 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by NZSpokes
My current set up which is pretty much perfect.


48 idles 2.5 and 2.75 turns out


2mm shim front needle
2.5mm shim rear needle


198/200 mains


Alloy stacks.


Have a track day on Friday so will see what it is like there.
Huge mains. Really love to see dyno #s. Dont snap it's neck friday!



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