GTS

So I've been doing a bunch of reading on here about the front fork upgrades and the rear swing arm upgrades. Then I went and talked to the owner of a suspension shop to get his take on all this as well.

So from what I'm reading on here guys are swapping USD forks such as the 929 and RC51 forks for more rigidity and for more adjustability. Also guys are doing swing arm braces and swing arm swaps to stiffen up the rear as well. From what I'm hearing on here these are making some pretty big improvements.

Then I went and talked to my buddy at the suspension shop and he said the forks and chassis are designed to work together. On the SH they all flex a lot and if you just slap some more rigid suspension on it it's just going to make the frame flex more and stress the frame more. He was telling me about someone who was going through a SH when they first came out and tryin got stiffen it up and he raced it and could never really make it right. Then the RC51 came out and he went that route.

So my question is for those who have done some of these swapps AND have ridden the bikes on the track and have experience with other bikes like the RC51 how much difference does the USD forks and stiffer swingarm really make? Is it a "yeah it makes the bike better but it's still nowhere near a full on race bike like an RC51 or 929 or 60RR etc?" Or is it like a HUGE difference that puts the bike on par with the race bikes.

I guess let me put it this way. If an RC51 is a 95 out of 100 and a SH is a 70 does these mods bring the SH up to say a 90 or more like a 75-80?

seb421

I have a 954 in the garage and a Storm with a 954 front

The Firestorm will never be like the 954 or the RC51 but it's not to far off,

As far as handling i have mine set up now how i like it and i holds a tighter line the 954 does

eezz

There are guys who have success racing the Superhawk after doing the front and swingarm fixes. This would indicate to me that the frame (although not the best design for all out racing) is not the weakest link. I guess it depends on your own situation. If you're consistently in the top 10 or 5 of AMA, WERA, or your club racing formula Ultra then this bike won't make you happy. I've seen a guy turn respectable Novice times at PIR on one with upgraded stock suspension and no swingarm brace with a stock engine; maybe some jetting upgrades. I use to race a ZX10 and then a GSXR 1000 and now I just want a fun twisty bike. I ran accross this SH deal that by the time I get her going even with a CBR front end and a good deal on a used Fox or Penske I won't have much more than a grand in it. I expect that to be an excellent ROI on fun factor and surprise factor for guys on newer better machines. The bike is very capable and unless you run accross a steal of a deal on a superior machine you can have a ton of fun with it.

Wolverine

I've had those same thoughts. It's a known fact that flex is designed into the hawks chassis. But I wouldn't hesitate to do a inverted fork swap if I had the funds.

And comparing the RC to the hawk, not even close (IMO). My buddy used to have one and we switched up a lot. The RC is a brick **** house. That's the best way I can explain it. He couldn't believe I like a bike that wiggles around that much. You really don't notice it unless you can back to back compare it to a stiffer chassis machine, and his RC was just that. BUT try to ride the RVT on long runs...

GTS

Thanks for the comments so far. I was all gun ho to get all the stuff. I have a 929 front fork/tripple on it's way alrady. I really don't push the bike all that hard at this point but I plan on pushing it more and more but don't really plan on ever putting it on the track. It seems most of the stuff for the swaps can be gotten for a reasonable price and you can sell most of the stock parts for about the same price so you'll have very little net out of pocket. Part of me wants to do it just for the cool factor, part of me wants to see just how cheaply I can do it in net cash flow after I sell off all the stock parts. And part of me wants to do it for the performance aspects of it. Considering how I ride the bike at the moment I'm leaning toward just valving and springs in the front for a start and go from there.

GTS

Wolverine, the long runs is exactly why I don't just upgrade to an RC. My buddy at the KFG Racing (the suspension shop) agreed with me on that point. Said it'd take a LOT of welding on the SH frame to get it stiff enough. I realize the RVT is a completely different bike but you have to have something to compare to. That's why I was kind of using that scale. You can say those additions make a HUGE difference but in reality it only brings a 70 bike to a 75-80. So while it's a big improvement on a flexy chassis to being with, it's really not a big improvement when comparing it to bikes that are made to run like that.

Tweety

The VTR is a "tuned flex" chassis... Ie the frame will flex... It's supposed to...

The difference is with my weight (200-210), the swingarm flexed to the point where i could visibly see the two parts move an inch or more on video a friend took while riding behind me... The fork was also "wobbly" even with firmer springs...

When I started by swapping the forks, i could see marked improvement... The bike tracked a lot better, plain an simple... But, it felt like the rear end was all over...

So, I swapped the rear spring, which helped a little, keeping the rear planted better... Next was swapping the swingarm... That again was a new leap forward...

Not only with the rigidity, but in my case with new geometry, making the bike much more stable... It held a line through corners very nicely, needing small but firm input to initiate the turn...

Still, the bike kind of felt like it was twisting "at the waist" if pushed to far... So I braced the frame... The feeling is still there if you push really, really hard, but not close to as it was before...

No, it's not even close to as rigid as the RC51, or the newer CBR 1000/600RR's... But comparing it to those isn't really fair is it? It's rigid enough to be very, very good on track, and it's flexible enough to be comfortable on road... It's a different approach, but it works very well...

In my mind the point about swapping the fork and the swingarm is only half about the rigidity... The stock fork lacks a lot of adjustability, and being an standard fork, it flexes in all the wrong ways... A CBR 1000RR fork has a lot more setup options, and is actually a lot lighter combined with a lighter wheel... The rigidity is just a bonus...

The SP2 swingarm is just over half the weight of the stock one, a 600RR wheel is lighter for the same width, or a 1000RR wheel gives you a 6" still with less weight... It makes the wheelbase longer, putting the weight on the front wheel... Again, it's more rigid, but that's just a bonus for me really...

The point of the things I did wasn't really rigidity... It was about weight, geometry and control... Yeah, rigidity helps, but isn't all...

Tweety

That's where you and your buddy are wrong... Sorry, but i can't put it any other way, and make it understandable...

One, it doesn't take much welding... One plate at the headstock, two cross spars added, and if you do the whole she-bang, you add "ears" for the swingarm, but again those are not for rigidity or handling... Those are there to move stress from the swingarm mount in the engine block...

Two, a bike doesn't need to be rigid to work well, on track or off... It has to flex in a controlled manner... And with the mods I have done on my bike, it does that...

blamecanada