Big question to all Guru's
08-08-2006, 01:08 AM
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Big question to all Guru's
OK folks, I can only ask it here, because US obvously is a land of superchargers 
Now, here is the question. I seriously want to supercharge my SHawk. To stop advices like "buy Busa instead of spending money on old twin" - no, I do not want Busa or Gixxer, I want very mildly supercharged SHawk.
Objective is not to achieve mad power gains by reshuffling all engine. I want to retain original internals of engine, playing safe taking into account SHawk low compression engine.
Idea is to get to range of not more than 130 bhp instead of let say 105 it is pumping out now. I do not want to convert to injection, I want to replace carbs with some flatslides non-CV Mikuni's, and install preferred second hand inexpensive blower of probably turbine type rather than roots (IMHO SHawk got enough grunt in low to midrange).
I specifically do not want turbocharging, but only supercharging. But - if you all will tell me that turbo lag with low-pressure turbo unnoticeable - I'll go for turbo.
I know supercharging is popular and well developed in US, so many of you probably know how etc. - your advice will be highly appreciated. I am not going to rush this in, it is going to be long term project as I am very very limited in budget.
Again, I am talking low pressure, nothing near BIG supercharging projects.
Any help and advice will be appreciated.
And second question - what would set of high-comp pistons, stage 1 cams and lightened flywheel will give me power wise? Will it give better return than supercharging?
I am afraid I am obsessed with supercharger idea ever since I saw MadMax I (thou I know one in movie was fake)....
Now, here is the question. I seriously want to supercharge my SHawk. To stop advices like "buy Busa instead of spending money on old twin" - no, I do not want Busa or Gixxer, I want very mildly supercharged SHawk.
Objective is not to achieve mad power gains by reshuffling all engine. I want to retain original internals of engine, playing safe taking into account SHawk low compression engine.
Idea is to get to range of not more than 130 bhp instead of let say 105 it is pumping out now. I do not want to convert to injection, I want to replace carbs with some flatslides non-CV Mikuni's, and install preferred second hand inexpensive blower of probably turbine type rather than roots (IMHO SHawk got enough grunt in low to midrange).
I specifically do not want turbocharging, but only supercharging. But - if you all will tell me that turbo lag with low-pressure turbo unnoticeable - I'll go for turbo.
I know supercharging is popular and well developed in US, so many of you probably know how etc. - your advice will be highly appreciated. I am not going to rush this in, it is going to be long term project as I am very very limited in budget.
Again, I am talking low pressure, nothing near BIG supercharging projects.
Any help and advice will be appreciated.
And second question - what would set of high-comp pistons, stage 1 cams and lightened flywheel will give me power wise? Will it give better return than supercharging?
I am afraid I am obsessed with supercharger idea ever since I saw MadMax I (thou I know one in movie was fake)....
08-09-2006, 05:46 PM
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well, voice of reason tells me same but since I found way to get centrifugal blower almost for free I can;t stop thinking of supercharger....
To cut long story short: easily available stock turbochargers from turbo-diesel cars that almost 100% of car park in Western Europe selling at almost joke price as second-hand parts. You almost can not buy non-TD car.
Now, one side of those turbos is a turbine that goes into exhaust, but other nothing else than simply centrifugal supercharger.
Two cases isolated from each other but have comon shaft. Now, unbolt turbo side from charger side and you got 100% working centrifugal charger. Mounting plate and pulley is all you need. Add 2 HSR Mikunis like they use on Harley's, blowout valve and machining/pain of getting blower geared from engine, then about 100 years of jetting and you got supercharged superhawk.
Next question will be: anybody can point me in right direction about where from I can gear that blower - shall I get new base of alternator wheel machined with sprocket crown, or can I somehow drive it from starter idle gear/starter clutch crown, or try to pickup from other side of engine...any advice?
but since I found way to get centrifugal blower almost for free I can;t stop thinking of supercharger....To cut long story short: easily available stock turbochargers from turbo-diesel cars that almost 100% of car park in Western Europe selling at almost joke price as second-hand parts. You almost can not buy non-TD car.
Now, one side of those turbos is a turbine that goes into exhaust, but other nothing else than simply centrifugal supercharger.
Two cases isolated from each other but have comon shaft. Now, unbolt turbo side from charger side and you got 100% working centrifugal charger. Mounting plate and pulley is all you need. Add 2 HSR Mikunis like they use on Harley's, blowout valve and machining/pain of getting blower geared from engine, then about 100 years of jetting
and you got supercharged superhawk. Next question will be: anybody can point me in right direction about where from I can gear that blower - shall I get new base of alternator wheel machined with sprocket crown, or can I somehow drive it from starter idle gear/starter clutch crown, or try to pickup from other side of engine...any advice?
08-10-2006, 02:35 PM
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I cannot imagine the carburetion woes you will go through. Do the Mikuni HSRs allow you to pressurize the float bowls? With forced induction this is what you'll need to do. You will also have to find a fuel pump to mount because gravity certainly will not overcome that pressure.
Unless you have THAT much time and money on your hands, I'd stick with the following rule: It's easier and cheaper to just buy a fast bike than it is to make a slow bike fast.
I realize that you like to be unique but the resources involved with this project are probably more than what is available to you. This is way more difficult than a turbo installation, and a turbo involves tubing for intake and exhaust, airbox work, jetting, etc.
Unless you have THAT much time and money on your hands, I'd stick with the following rule: It's easier and cheaper to just buy a fast bike than it is to make a slow bike fast.
I realize that you like to be unique but the resources involved with this project are probably more than what is available to you. This is way more difficult than a turbo installation, and a turbo involves tubing for intake and exhaust, airbox work, jetting, etc.
08-10-2006, 02:51 PM
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I gotta be real honest: I can't even get the seat of my Super Hawk unless I have my little sister turn the key for me.
Sorry. But good luck! There are lots of super charges for Harley's, which are 45 degree twins, so I bet you can mod something up. And it may even be chromed for you with an eagle on it!
Sorry. But good luck! There are lots of super charges for Harley's, which are 45 degree twins, so I bet you can mod something up. And it may even be chromed for you with an eagle on it!
09-16-2006, 10:10 PM
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I can see getting a turbo to work- lots of turbo V-rods out there. A supercharger requires a driveshaft to turn the blower- that's going to be difficult to find on the superhawk.
So you're looking at custom piping, then making a new airbox, then finding some blow-through carbs that will work. Good luck!
So you're looking at custom piping, then making a new airbox, then finding some blow-through carbs that will work. Good luck!
09-21-2006, 05:06 AM
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It has been done already in Australia, but not really an effective solution in my opinion. The charger was driven by belt off the flywheel, and the fuel tank was raised to allow extra room for the induction set up. I personally didn't like the result.
If you go to "ozfirestorm.com.au" and ask about this bike on the forum someone will be able to show you the link to the story. It is a scanned magazine article from a few years ago.
If you go to "ozfirestorm.com.au" and ask about this bike on the forum someone will be able to show you the link to the story. It is a scanned magazine article from a few years ago.
09-21-2006, 01:42 PM
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Don't forget that there is another possible option. Some car guys are using smog pumps as a 'poor man's supercharger'. They actually flow a great deal of air but at only moderate pressures. For displacement in the range of car engines you usually two (or more!) of these, but for the big twins I think one might be enough. Here's the kicker - most later model cars use an electrically powered unit. It's pretty compact, smaller than the size of a typical car's alternator. The juice needed to run it would be my biggest concern. I've wondered if a second battery might be a way to go. Have a circuit that cuts it off from the rest of the charging system when it's active then reconnects it when off to recharge the battery. A trigger on the carbs would activate the pump/supercharger at a prescribed throttle position.
This is all just thoughts mind you, the whole blow through carb thing scares me too. I still think it would be fun!
This is all just thoughts mind you, the whole blow through carb thing scares me too. I still think it would be fun!
09-21-2006, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by shayne
It has been done already in Australia, but not really an effective solution in my opinion. The charger was driven by belt off the flywheel, and the fuel tank was raised to allow extra room for the induction set up. I personally didn't like the result.
If you go to "ozfirestorm.com.au" and ask about this bike on the forum someone will be able to show you the link to the story. It is a scanned magazine article from a few years ago.
If you go to "ozfirestorm.com.au" and ask about this bike on the forum someone will be able to show you the link to the story. It is a scanned magazine article from a few years ago.
Yep, saw photos etc.
The maker did go different way - he used roots supercharger from car.
Problem with roots charger is that it runs out of breath at high rpms, eats a lot of engine power and generally always big and pressure is not linear.
This is why I opted for centifugal charger - completely different animal. But since I got that small turbo delivered I am looking at it daily and wondering if I'd be better off using it as a turbo instead of charge. I mean - Shawk got enough grunt low-rpms, so may be with turbo of reasonable size like that one I will not really suffer from turbolag...but with turbo I do not need pulleys, gears, etc. etc. and this turbo really small and will not look bad on bike. Need to think more about it and collect a bit of money to buy Mikuni HSR carbs of at least 45 mm. And that's not really cheap, as it is popular upgrade for H-D
In the mean time spending evenings in garage making touring kit for Shawk as I plan to take wife to next big tour (hopefully Norway). So far idea comes out nicely...second kit consist of cut down pillion plastic, set of old Givi panniers, rack from Bandint 1200, all cut and re-welded to fit tightly to subframe, so that overall witdh of bike with 2X34 liter panniers only 5 cm more than mirrors, and it will be taking 30 minutes to convert to 2-up tourer or back to egoist bike...so turbo will be next.
09-21-2006, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JamieDaugherty
Don't forget that there is another possible option. Some car guys are using smog pumps as a 'poor man's supercharger'. They actually flow a great deal of air but at only moderate pressures. For displacement in the range of car engines you usually two (or more!) of these, but for the big twins I think one might be enough. Here's the kicker - most later model cars use an electrically powered unit. It's pretty compact, smaller than the size of a typical car's alternator. The juice needed to run it would be my biggest concern. I've wondered if a second battery might be a way to go. Have a circuit that cuts it off from the rest of the charging system when it's active then reconnects it when off to recharge the battery. A trigger on the carbs would activate the pump/supercharger at a prescribed throttle position.
This is all just thoughts mind you, the whole blow through carb thing scares me too. I still think it would be fun!
This is all just thoughts mind you, the whole blow through carb thing scares me too. I still think it would be fun!
Been thinking about that...but it needs about 900 Watt to supply enough air to feed Shawk
no way I can find such power on bike - or generator will be size of 2 superchargers 
09-28-2006, 04:36 AM
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Turbo on a twin tends not to be as effective due to the power pulses of the engine compared to a 4 cyl. Means the turbo doesn't work as well on the twin.
I haven't read that artice on the supercharged bike for a long time, I thought it ran a Sprintex centrifugal blower. Must be losing my memory. Getting old!!!
I haven't read that artice on the supercharged bike for a long time, I thought it ran a Sprintex centrifugal blower. Must be losing my memory. Getting old!!!
09-28-2006, 07:35 AM
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Ah, I see where mix up comes from.
Australian company (Ducati dealer and tuner) VeeTwo made supercharged Ducati with Testaretta engine and Sprintex charger...beauty - 150 kW 195 kg bike....
The supercharged Shawk used blower from Toyota and TBH I do not like it - it a) got gold wheels and frame ...urgh...b)still have original suspension and brakes - crazy, considering power c) as you mentioned - raised tank does not look good.
Australian company (Ducati dealer and tuner) VeeTwo made supercharged Ducati with Testaretta engine and Sprintex charger...beauty - 150 kW 195 kg bike....
The supercharged Shawk used blower from Toyota and TBH I do not like it - it a) got gold wheels and frame ...urgh...b)still have original suspension and brakes - crazy, considering power c) as you mentioned - raised tank does not look good.
09-28-2006, 02:54 PM
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plus one on just buy a faster bike than trying to make the superhawk only a little faster, the leap from 105 to 130 bhp does not seem worth the time or trouble. The new 1000's have more than that stock!!!
09-29-2006, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sprhawk neil
plus one on just buy a faster bike than trying to make the superhawk only a little faster, the leap from 105 to 130 bhp does not seem worth the time or trouble. The new 1000's have more than that stock!!!
And we are back to page one
No, no and no. I do NOT want faster and sport bike. I want supercharged Storm!
Let me explain....warning - long read, skip if not bothered
It is not only about having power like new sportbike. It is having more power on SHawk.
I can invite any proud owner of Gixxer or Blade to one of my regular trips to French Alps and watch him degrade painfully after 600-800 km daily trips through canyons and mountains twisties. He will not be able to carry much luggage, he will not be able to use half of his horspower in slow tight corners, he will have to take longer brakes and he will not be able to look around a lot and enjoy what he sees, etc. Then we can go together to Norway and see how long sportbike can hold it there (not long, believe me).
I already did have people on true-tourers and true-sports with me on those trips - Goldwing is no-go, Superblackbirds and Busa's were VERY tiring to ride, even guy on CBR600rr sweared on each stop etc. The best bikes amongst all I ridden with for those areas were: Honda Hornet (599 and 919), VFR750, CB1300S (suprisingly agile for biiig naked), Hawk GT and - totally suprising - new Pan European did held it's place really well. Even BMW 1200GS (new) on road tires makes more sense there than pure sport or pure tourer or pure cruiser (you'll be lucky to see 1 cruiser there). Triumph Sprint ST 2006 would be perfect, but a bit heavy and no easily available spares and no wonderfull Honda 24-hours-any-spare-part delivery system.
I guess what I am saying - I do not see bike on the market that fits to my requirements well. I want supercharging for a bit more power just because I like working with bikes. And I see no substitute available now.
Give me 185 kilos VFR1000 with attacheable hard luggage, Honda-level of dealerships and service presence and sound of my Arrow exaust - and I will sell SHawk. I do not use bike for daily commute to work (purely financial reasons, since company gave me car and pays for fuel for it), but I am no track addict either. I need jack of all trades, and so far SHawk is just spot on.
11-06-2006, 05:51 PM
#17
Remember stock is BAD!
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The immediate problem is that you need a direct line off of the crankshaft for the supercharger to mount to. Therein lies the problem.
If you can accomplish that, the secondary problem is you need a bigger fuel tank to accomplish a decent range.
If you can accomplish that, the secondary problem is you need a bigger fuel tank to accomplish a decent range.
11-06-2006, 06:11 PM
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Someone on eBay a couple of months ago was selling a battery-powered supercharger to fit to motorcycles.
There was a sarcastic thread about it on the CB11100F discussion forum. I will see if I can find it for you.
There was a sarcastic thread about it on the CB11100F discussion forum. I will see if I can find it for you.
11-06-2006, 06:30 PM
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http://cgi.ebay.ca/Electric-Supercha...QQcmdZViewItem
It appears to be a truck heater blower...quite apart from the interesting points about energy use etc, there are big issues about jetting, fuel supply, and ignition timing still to sort out.
There is a lot of trial and error, even if the electrocharger works. I would rather you be the one learning through error, and not me.
Good luck.
It appears to be a truck heater blower...quite apart from the interesting points about energy use etc, there are big issues about jetting, fuel supply, and ignition timing still to sort out.
There is a lot of trial and error, even if the electrocharger works. I would rather you be the one learning through error, and not me.
Good luck.
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