Modifications - Performance Discuss aftermarket and DIY performance modifications

another brake thread

Old 03-10-2019, 12:50 PM
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another brake thread

Hey all.. been a while since I posted here. I have been going thru the front brake mods here and trying sort out the information for a front bake modification.

I've settled on installing F4i calipers on front and using a VTR SP2 MC. Apart from modifying the calipers to fit the stock VTR100f forks is there anything I should know about putting together this setup from a technical stand point?

I just had the forks re-sprung with liner springs for my weight and revalved using a Andreani valve and piston kit, so it only stands to reason that I should upgrade the brakes, too. I considered the GSXR 6 pot calipers but like the idea of keeping the stock look. I've done everything I can to the stock setup and still find it lacking. I'm looking to get better stopping power and better feel with less lever travel. I like to ride with 1 or 2 fingers on the front brake lever so I want reliable response with minimal input but not all or nothing braking.

Is there anything else I should be taking into account?

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Old 03-10-2019, 01:36 PM
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You're well on your way to a good set-up. The final step is to get some good pads. Vesrah RJL are well respected pads that can be had for a reasonable sum. If you want to spend a bit more, get some Zcoo (can find them on eBay) and don't look back.

cheers
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:12 PM
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I noticed a large improvement with just the F4i calipers and my original MC. Pick up some stainless braided lines if you haven't already. I've had great experience with the EBC HH's but that's a whole different thread...
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:35 PM
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Wolverine, how you been, man? I sort of had the idea that I would start off with the F4i calipers with stock mc just to see what the improvement would be and then see if the sp2 made it any better or if I like it at all. I can sell what I don't use. I can hardly wait! Riding season coming, (raining all the time here in SF). I seriously need a 2 or 3 day ride.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:06 PM
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Tell me about it! I haven't been on 2 wheels since my off the 1st of October!
I'd totally recommend trying your stock m/c and see what it's like, then follow up with the other one. You'll never know if you don't try. I go back and forth between my Hawk and my Ducati (with insane radial brakes) and I don't feel my Super is lacking.
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:07 PM
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No brake thread would be complete without this chart:

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Old 03-10-2019, 06:26 PM
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haven't seen that chart before, thanks!
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:09 PM
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I tried the CBR600F4i calipers but prefer the CBR954 set-up which IMHO has better feel and plenty of power. Same pieces as the 600RR or SP2 in terms of sizing.
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:18 PM
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Sorry for hijack, but how do the vtr1000f, cbr600f4i, cbr954rr and sp1/2 callipers differ? Just from web surfing a bit it seems they are all Nissin, non-monoblock and apparently identical in appearance?
Are any of these calipers a straight bolt up? And for stupid example,,,,, how hard would it be to fit say,, yamaha blue/silver/gold spots?
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:30 AM
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Look at the chart above. The calipers have different sized pistons, which give different leverage ratios.

The OEM VTR calipers differ in appearance, but the others are the same except for color.

Last edited by killer5280; 03-11-2019 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:01 PM
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Sorry was on my phone and didnt see the chart
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by VTRsquid View Post
Sorry was on my phone and didnt see the chart
No problem. And I agree with Cadbury64 that the 954, 600rr and SP2 setups provide excellent braking. I have them on my VTR with a 954 front end and EBC EPFA pads and the power and feel are awesome.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:14 PM
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Do they bolt straight up?
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by VTRsquid View Post
Do they bolt straight up?
from what I've read, the calipers require a minor modification, (or a slight modification to one of the mounting points on the lowers of the forks. Check out the brake threads and you will get plenty of reading material.

Cheers!
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by VTRsquid View Post
Do they bolt straight up?
The bolt spacing is the same but there is clearance issue between the lower mount on the fork leg and the caliper which needs a little massaging. I did that with a hand file (5 minutes per side) to the lower mount and left the calipers untouched. You can't even tell that I have done it as I left the outer face of the mount alone and just relieved the inner part. If you try and mate the parts together it becomes immediately obvious where the massaging is needed.

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Old 03-12-2019, 05:46 AM
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https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...69/#post406734

This post shows the material needed to be removed from the caliper, others left the caliper alone and clearanced the fork..
I choose to remove a little material from both caliper and fork.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:55 AM
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I can second Mikstr on the ZCOO pads .

I know have different calipers thanks to a fork mod and a gent on here that kindly threw in a set of ZCOO pads.

The calipers I used came with a good set of pads, Triumph 675 to be precise.

After I changed my forks and had different brakes with standard pads and the ZCOO pads that Mikstr threw in when I bought a top tripple and adjustable bars from him I thought that I would do a little experiment and see what both sets of pads felt like.

Fortunateley I live at the base of two great mountains and have been riding them for about 46 years so I know them well.

I love the progressive feel of the Zcoos and the fact that one finger is all that is required.

The calipers from the Triumph are a massive improvement over the CBR600f4i calipers however , they felt wooden with the standard pads in them .

I will be up for a new set of front pads soon and I know they will be Zcoos.

Spend The extra $ and reap the benefits, brakes are one thing you don't **** with.


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Old 03-13-2019, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kenmoore View Post
The calipers from the Triumph are a massive improvement over the CBR600f4i calipers however ,
Specifically what year and Model 675
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by E.Marquez View Post
Specifically what year and Model 675
they are the radial Nissin monoblocs from the 2009+ Daytona 675...
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kenmoore View Post
I can second Mikstr on the ZCOO pads .

I know have different calipers thanks to a fork mod and a gent on here that kindly threw in a set of ZCOO pads.

The calipers I used came with a good set of pads, Triumph 675 to be precise.

After I changed my forks and had different brakes with standard pads and the ZCOO pads that Mikstr threw in when I bought a top tripple and adjustable bars from him I thought that I would do a little experiment and see what both sets of pads felt like.

Fortunateley I live at the base of two great mountains and have been riding them for about 46 years so I know them well.

I love the progressive feel of the Zcoos and the fact that one finger is all that is required.

The calipers from the Triumph are a massive improvement over the CBR600f4i calipers however , they felt wooden with the standard pads in them .

I will be up for a new set of front pads soon and I know they will be Zcoos.

Spend The extra $ and reap the benefits, brakes are one thing you don't **** with.


to try them is to embrace them. I have tried many pads, and Zcoo are tops...
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mikstr View Post
they are the radial Nissin monoblocs from the 2009+ Daytona 675...
????


The Nissan calipers for 2009 675 are radial mounted


F4I calipers are side mounted


How did you adapt those to fit where the F41 ones did?
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by E.Marquez View Post
????


The Nissan calipers for 2009 675 are radial mounted


F4I calipers are side mounted


How did you adapt those to fit where the F41 ones did?
2005 ZX-10R USD fork...

To steer the ship back on course, he was seconding my suggestion of Zcoo pads...
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:30 PM
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FWIW, the chart I posted above came from the front bolt-on brake thread sticky:

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ke-mods-13176/
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by VTR1000F View Post
No brake thread would be complete without this chart:
Thank you for posting this chart. I have two questions/comments:
1. The MC from the 600 RR resp. 954 RR resp, RC51 (SP-2) with the 17.46 MC dia. is a radial MC correct?
2. In line 5 it shoud read 954RR not 959RR correct?
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Old 04-04-2019, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Fox View Post
Thank you for posting this chart. I have two questions/comments:
1. The MC from the 600 RR resp. 954 RR resp, RC51 (SP-2) with the 17.46 MC dia. is a radial MC correct? NO, axial (later 600RRs got a radial, however)
2. In line 5 it shoud read 954RR not 959RR correct? Correct
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:41 AM
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I am planning a brake tupe-up on my VTR 1000 F. With interest I have therefore studied the "ultimate brake chart". The advantage of the chart is that it summarizes the geometric facts of the different brake combos and, as an added value, gives some interpretation of the data, i.e. the hydraulic transmission factor and the braking power. However, particularly the column "Braking power" has to be interpreted with care. If you just look at the numbers, it looks as if the original VTR 1000 F has a higher braking power than the SC 44, the SC 50 and both RC51 (SP1 and SP2). This is, in my view, because column "braking power" does not take into account the quality of the hardware, i.e. rigidity of the caliper, the piston and, of course, the type and material of the brake pads. Therefore, it would be extremely helpful, if another column could be added to the chart, which gives an (objective or subjective) indication of the braking performance improvement of the different combos compared to the original VTR 1000 F combo.
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Old 04-06-2019, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Fox View Post
I am planning a brake tupe-up on my VTR 1000 F. With interest I have therefore studied the "ultimate brake chart". The advantage of the chart is that it summarizes the geometric facts of the different brake combos and, as an added value, gives some interpretation of the data, i.e. the hydraulic transmission factor and the braking power. However, particularly the column "Braking power" has to be interpreted with care. If you just look at the numbers, it looks as if the original VTR 1000 F has a higher braking power than the SC 44, the SC 50 and both RC51 (SP1 and SP2). This is, in my view, because column "braking power" does not take into account the quality of the hardware, i.e. rigidity of the caliper, the piston and, of course, the type and material of the brake pads. Therefore, it would be extremely helpful, if another column could be added to the chart, which gives an (objective or subjective) indication of the braking performance improvement of the different combos compared to the original VTR 1000 F combo.
In principle, another key element missing is the leverage effect of the MC. As all the MCs listed are axial, I would assume their fulcrum measurement is likely identical, which eliminates variances. If one were to add radials, however, the fulcrum measurement would have to be taken into account. (ie. a 19x16 and 19x20 do NOT have the same leverage despite having identical piston sizes)
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