This week I learned...
08-29-2007, 05:18 AM
#1
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This week I learned...
that after 5 years of using Honda oil, switching to Rotella brings out a lot of crap that has built up.
I changed my oil last month or so with Rotella. 1,500 or so miles later, I start hearing my valves chattering and raising all kinds of hell, and my shifting gets fubar. Surely it can't be my oil broken down already... I bend down and look through the sight glass and oh my god it's black!
no particulates in it thankfully. Changed the oil again, hoping it got most of the crap out. She sounds a lot better, and shifts a lot smoother lol
Just thought I'd share that story.
I changed my oil last month or so with Rotella. 1,500 or so miles later, I start hearing my valves chattering and raising all kinds of hell, and my shifting gets fubar. Surely it can't be my oil broken down already... I bend down and look through the sight glass and oh my god it's black!
no particulates in it thankfully. Changed the oil again, hoping it got most of the crap out. She sounds a lot better, and shifts a lot smoother lol
Just thought I'd share that story.
08-29-2007, 05:51 AM
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I stopped using the 5-40 Rotella synthetic a couple of years ago. I felt that it didn't retain viscosity as well as Mobil 1 5-40 synthetic. Shifting deteriorated much sooner with the Rotella and I've never drained any oil that flowed like water when hot. I'm done with the 5-40 Rotella experiment.
08-29-2007, 07:17 AM
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We had a guy on the VFR forum who independently tested oils at a research facility who has now shut him up and banned him from the internet.
His bottom line: Mobil 1 synthetic brand with their expensive Vtwin formula as the best of their stuff.
Second reference: I personally knew a indycar team sponsored by an oil company who quietly at night replace the oil in the sponsors' bottles with mobil 1!
His bottom line: Mobil 1 synthetic brand with their expensive Vtwin formula as the best of their stuff.
Second reference: I personally knew a indycar team sponsored by an oil company who quietly at night replace the oil in the sponsors' bottles with mobil 1!
08-29-2007, 08:29 PM
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I stopped using the 5-40 Rotella synthetic a couple of years ago. I felt that it didn't retain viscosity as well as Mobil 1 5-40 synthetic. Shifting deteriorated much sooner with the Rotella and I've never drained any oil that flowed like water when hot. I'm done with the 5-40 Rotella experiment.
08-29-2007, 09:34 PM
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After dropping the Honda 10w40 factory fill, my next two changes were Rotella syn 5w40 and M1 T/Suv 5w40.
With all of the above I had the annoying 1st to 2nd gear clunk/thunk and occasional clickity-click of gear teeth pinwheeling over gear teeth before mating up.
I tried the Castrol 4T 20w50 available at Walmart for under $3/liter and now that 1-2 shift just goes snickity snick insted of clunkity-thunk. I don't yet know if it is the Castrol itself or my trans just prefers 20w50, but it made a big difference.
With all of the above I had the annoying 1st to 2nd gear clunk/thunk and occasional clickity-click of gear teeth pinwheeling over gear teeth before mating up.
I tried the Castrol 4T 20w50 available at Walmart for under $3/liter and now that 1-2 shift just goes snickity snick insted of clunkity-thunk. I don't yet know if it is the Castrol itself or my trans just prefers 20w50, but it made a big difference.
08-30-2007, 07:00 PM
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time we've had an oil thread on here!! BTW Greg what kind of tire is best for the Super Hawk? I'm thinking of running a 300/50/17.
08-31-2007, 05:42 AM
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I've also noticed that WalMart is carrying two different price point Mobil 1 Synthetic oils. One 5 quart jug goes for about 20 bucks and the other 5 quart jug sells for about 27-28 bucks. I haven't visited "bobistheoilguy.com" lately to find out the differences in spec or performance though.
Last edited by altosuperhawk; 09-08-2007 at 07:00 AM.
08-31-2007, 12:48 PM
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altosuperhawk;
Yeah. The more expensive M1 15w50 is the "extended performance".
The cheaper one is the "reintroduced" replacement for the old "red cap".
For those interested, the newer/cheaper 15w50 is listed on the Mobil 1 website as Energy Conserving.
It doesn't say so no the "donut" on the container, but on the website product data sheet it is listed as "EC" under the api classifications.
Yeah. The more expensive M1 15w50 is the "extended performance".
The cheaper one is the "reintroduced" replacement for the old "red cap".
For those interested, the newer/cheaper 15w50 is listed on the Mobil 1 website as Energy Conserving.
It doesn't say so no the "donut" on the container, but on the website product data sheet it is listed as "EC" under the api classifications.
08-31-2007, 03:46 PM
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08-31-2007, 04:29 PM
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It is true there is a lot of archived stuff on oil, but it is hard to find and wade through what pops up 'cause the search engine doesn't work for three letter words like "oil".
Also a lot of that info is older and doesn't mention the changes in formulation needed to meet the new CJ-4 standard for diesel and SM standard for car oil.
A lot of oils that used to be perfectly cool to use in bikes probably aren't a good idea any more.
I don't get why some guys get all upset about another oil thread when, like any other thread that doesn't interest them, they could simply ignore it.
Did old oil threads get ugly, nasty and personal or something?
Also a lot of that info is older and doesn't mention the changes in formulation needed to meet the new CJ-4 standard for diesel and SM standard for car oil.
A lot of oils that used to be perfectly cool to use in bikes probably aren't a good idea any more.
I don't get why some guys get all upset about another oil thread when, like any other thread that doesn't interest them, they could simply ignore it.
Did old oil threads get ugly, nasty and personal or something?
09-07-2007, 05:11 PM
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Guys, for one, if you don't know me, I'll tell ya'll a little secret about myself: Very rarely do I actually get angry. I was just playfully beating my head against the wall. Oil threads are common no matter which auto or motorcycle forum you're on. It IS a shame that we can't search "oil" but that's the way the indexing feature is set up and there are way too many three letter words to index and not bog down the server.
Yes, there are two formulations of M1 15-w50 now. One is the newer "extended performance" oil and the other is the original formula with SuperSyn. Personally I'd rather not spend the extra cash on the EP stuff since I change my oil every 3000 miles anyway. It's already expensive enough, but the quality of Mobil 1 is worth it to me to buy the "normal" version of the oil. I've read the tests on the M1 15-w50 and it outperforms even M1 lighter viscosities by a large margin. It also is NOT energy conserving. I don't care what the stupid website says. I challenge you to find ANY oil out there over X-40W that is energy conserving. You just won't find it.
Plain bearings on the connecting rods, crankshaft, and camshafts ride on a wedge of pressurized oil. This oil wedge provides protection between the metal surfaces of the motor.
The thinner oils have additive packages that make oils more "slippery" while allowing the oil to be thinner (lower viscosity). This is why they have 0w-20 oils now. They have a very low viscosity but can still protect because of those additives. The disadvantage of those slippery additive packages is that they don't play well with wet clutches, and have a tendency to allow them to slip.
Higher viscosity oils like 15-W50 don't require the same slippery additives because the high viscosity alone protects the moving parts. That oil wedge isn't pushed out of the way as easily as a thinner oil. They also work better with gearsets, like the transmissions in our bikes. The disadvantage of thicker oil is that it takes longer to pump cold thick oil through the engine on startup. Personally, I don't ride my bike if it's less than 50°F outside, so I never have to worry about that aspect.
Again, I've seen the tests and M1 15-w50 blows everyone else out of the water. It's a damned good oil and is relatively easy to find. It's not as cheap as regular Valvoline but it's not as expensive as Amsoil either. And yes, Mobil 1 performs better than Amsoil.
Yes, there are two formulations of M1 15-w50 now. One is the newer "extended performance" oil and the other is the original formula with SuperSyn. Personally I'd rather not spend the extra cash on the EP stuff since I change my oil every 3000 miles anyway. It's already expensive enough, but the quality of Mobil 1 is worth it to me to buy the "normal" version of the oil. I've read the tests on the M1 15-w50 and it outperforms even M1 lighter viscosities by a large margin. It also is NOT energy conserving. I don't care what the stupid website says. I challenge you to find ANY oil out there over X-40W that is energy conserving. You just won't find it.
Plain bearings on the connecting rods, crankshaft, and camshafts ride on a wedge of pressurized oil. This oil wedge provides protection between the metal surfaces of the motor.
The thinner oils have additive packages that make oils more "slippery" while allowing the oil to be thinner (lower viscosity). This is why they have 0w-20 oils now. They have a very low viscosity but can still protect because of those additives. The disadvantage of those slippery additive packages is that they don't play well with wet clutches, and have a tendency to allow them to slip.
Higher viscosity oils like 15-W50 don't require the same slippery additives because the high viscosity alone protects the moving parts. That oil wedge isn't pushed out of the way as easily as a thinner oil. They also work better with gearsets, like the transmissions in our bikes. The disadvantage of thicker oil is that it takes longer to pump cold thick oil through the engine on startup. Personally, I don't ride my bike if it's less than 50°F outside, so I never have to worry about that aspect.
Again, I've seen the tests and M1 15-w50 blows everyone else out of the water. It's a damned good oil and is relatively easy to find. It's not as cheap as regular Valvoline but it's not as expensive as Amsoil either. And yes, Mobil 1 performs better than Amsoil.
09-07-2007, 05:51 PM
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Hey Greg;
FWIW when I wondered why guys get upset about oil threads I wasn't thinking about you. Your responses to them that I've read always seem good natured, maybe slightly exasperated, but not angry at all.
I wasn't intending to knock M1 15w50 either, I think M1 15w50 probably gives better protection for bike engines than anything you can buy for under eight bucks a quart.
I just wanted to talk about it and point some things out. I think the EP is a waste of money and also has less zinc and phos than the old red cap.
I think you are right about the "regular" 15w50 not being energy conserving. I've never heard of a w50 being EC. I just think it weird that the only M1 over 30 wt. to be labeled "EC" on the website is the 15w50.
I don't believe for a minute that the Castrol 4t 20w50 gives better protection than M1 15w50, or will stay good for as long a drain interval.
My main purpose in posting to the thread was to say that after trying numerous oils, I'd finally found one that smoothed out my first to second shift and see what anybody else's thoughts/experience was.
I think that important because besides being annoying, if I had to clunk/thunk the trans into second often enough, eventually it won't want to stay there.
FWIW when I wondered why guys get upset about oil threads I wasn't thinking about you. Your responses to them that I've read always seem good natured, maybe slightly exasperated, but not angry at all.
I wasn't intending to knock M1 15w50 either, I think M1 15w50 probably gives better protection for bike engines than anything you can buy for under eight bucks a quart.
I just wanted to talk about it and point some things out. I think the EP is a waste of money and also has less zinc and phos than the old red cap.
I think you are right about the "regular" 15w50 not being energy conserving. I've never heard of a w50 being EC. I just think it weird that the only M1 over 30 wt. to be labeled "EC" on the website is the 15w50.
I don't believe for a minute that the Castrol 4t 20w50 gives better protection than M1 15w50, or will stay good for as long a drain interval.
My main purpose in posting to the thread was to say that after trying numerous oils, I'd finally found one that smoothed out my first to second shift and see what anybody else's thoughts/experience was.
I think that important because besides being annoying, if I had to clunk/thunk the trans into second often enough, eventually it won't want to stay there.
09-07-2007, 06:43 PM
#27
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+M1 SuperSyn 15W-50
[QUOTE=Hawkrider;128958]
The disadvantage of thicker oil is that it takes longer to pump cold thick oil through the engine on startup. Personally, I don't ride my bike if it's less than 50°F outside, so I never have to worry about that aspect.QUOTE]
I'm with Greg here all the way (as usual as I'm a B-noser). I've use the "old" M! 15W-50 for many moons. When I sold my "Baby Hawk" (NT650), it had over 70,000 miles and still had less than 5% leakage as checked by my trusty Milton vacuum leak down tester. I stocked up on the "old" M! 15W-50 years ago and still have at least a case left. I usually change the oil and filter (Purolator "Pure One" PL14612 with Chin Fairing trimmed due to its slightly longer length) every 3~5K miles; taking advantage of the extended "range" a sythentic offers) However, whereas I live near Chicago, I do ride in temps lower than 50°F. Base on what I've learned about the 0 wt oils, I think I will go to Mobil 1 0W-40, Shell Rotella T Syn 5W-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 for the winter. I also use Shell Rotella-T Syn 0W-30 in my 3 newer Mazdas. Below are some interesting links...
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ne_Engine.aspx
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 and Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 are the same product branded differently for different markets.
http://www.240sx.org/faq/articles/oil.htm
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ellasynth.html
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...cycle_Oil.aspx
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...0_or_5W20.aspx
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo..._Clutches.aspx
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...or_15W-40.aspx
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...ycle_Oils.aspx
The disadvantage of thicker oil is that it takes longer to pump cold thick oil through the engine on startup. Personally, I don't ride my bike if it's less than 50°F outside, so I never have to worry about that aspect.QUOTE]
I'm with Greg here all the way (as usual as I'm a B-noser). I've use the "old" M! 15W-50 for many moons. When I sold my "Baby Hawk" (NT650), it had over 70,000 miles and still had less than 5% leakage as checked by my trusty Milton vacuum leak down tester. I stocked up on the "old" M! 15W-50 years ago and still have at least a case left. I usually change the oil and filter (Purolator "Pure One" PL14612 with Chin Fairing trimmed due to its slightly longer length) every 3~5K miles; taking advantage of the extended "range" a sythentic offers) However, whereas I live near Chicago, I do ride in temps lower than 50°F. Base on what I've learned about the 0 wt oils, I think I will go to Mobil 1 0W-40, Shell Rotella T Syn 5W-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 for the winter. I also use Shell Rotella-T Syn 0W-30 in my 3 newer Mazdas. Below are some interesting links...
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ne_Engine.aspx
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 and Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 are the same product branded differently for different markets.
http://www.240sx.org/faq/articles/oil.htm
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ellasynth.html
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...cycle_Oil.aspx
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...0_or_5W20.aspx
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo..._Clutches.aspx
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...or_15W-40.aspx
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo...ycle_Oils.aspx
Last edited by skokievtr; 09-07-2007 at 06:49 PM.
09-07-2007, 08:09 PM
#28
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I don't see that I or anyone else has said M1 15w50 was anything BUT a great oil.
I've been using it in my Interceptor for years and still have 10 qts. of red cap from the stash I put up three years ago.
For what ever reason, my VTR trans and clutch seem not to agree with it as much. Just one man's experience with one individual bike.
I've been using it in my Interceptor for years and still have 10 qts. of red cap from the stash I put up three years ago.
For what ever reason, my VTR trans and clutch seem not to agree with it as much. Just one man's experience with one individual bike.
09-08-2007, 01:03 PM
#29
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Hey Hey now guys no need to get upset (Greg! kidding by the way), I wasn't asking what oil would be the best lol... just sharing a funny story about why Honda oil is probably the worst thing you could put in your bike. 
actually i'm running royal purple 15-50 in it right now. keeping the clutch noise down a bit more than the rotella actually, which is great imho, it was kinda loud before. I'm going to switch to Mobil 1 next oil change.
actually i'm running royal purple 15-50 in it right now. keeping the clutch noise down a bit more than the rotella actually, which is great imho, it was kinda loud before. I'm going to switch to Mobil 1 next oil change.
Last edited by midijunky; 09-08-2007 at 01:09 PM.
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