jscobey

after doing some digging i found out that the universe aligned in my favor when it comes to suspension.

my rear ohlins HO-701 shock, which was put on by the PO, comes stock with a 16.3 Kg/mm spring. i checked the markings on the spring to see if it was still stock and it is. using the race tech site to determine the correct rate for my weight, im right on the mark with my current spring.

now my RC51 forks, are stock and have a spring rate of .959 Kg/mm, and the recommended spring rate for my weight is around .90 Kg/mm, so not exactley but pretty close. i prefer it on the stiff side anyways. im wondering if the optimum spring rate transfers from forks to forks? or if each fork would have its own optimum spring rate? since the race tech site gives me the recomended rate based on the stock forks, not RC forks.

when i was at the track on sunday the Catalyst Reaction guys told me that im set up pretty well with regards to springs. i was using the optimum part of the fork and shock stroke. and i was able to have all of my settings IE compression, rebound, and preload in the mid range. nothing had to be adjusted to any extremes one way or the other. my tire wear looked excellent. and the bike felt extremely stable at high speeds (got to about 140mph on the front straight.) and held great lines in the corners well still being able to change lines mid corner if needed.

i was overall really impressed with the hawks ability on the track. considering it wasnt meant for the extreme type of riding the track allows, it really impressed me. i started in C group but 2 sessions in the moved me to B group. the hawk never struggled to keep up anywhere except coming out of the last turn onto the front straight, because its maybe 40 mph coming through the turn and then u just open it up but newer bikes were able to accelerate a little quicker. is this something a lightened flywheel could help?

overall the track was a great expierience. im addicted already. its an expensive thing between tires and admission. i ran Q3's at 30f 30r and i still have at least 1 if not 2 or 3 track days left on them. i highly recomend getting to the track if u havnt yet. u could never expieience the true potential of a sportbike on the street. that doesnt mean that i dont love the twisties because i do! but the track is a great time, u see some great bikes, and meet some great people who are plenty willing to help with whatever you need. i deffinatley be going back sometime soon.

thedeatons

A lightened flywheel would help it spin up quicker. For $40 this was a great mod for me... Also a lot of little things add up, fresh spark plugs, CBR stick coils, synthetic oil... Every little thing helps, and adds up to make a big difference.


What gearing are you running?


James

jscobey

Did u have someone here lighten it? And I'm running stock gearing.

thedeatons

I considered it, but I have a lot of machinist connections at church. I had a friend do it on his lathe for $40. Pretty elementary to do once you have Roger DItchfield's specs. You're just shaving material off, not really modifying anything.

Stock gearing!!!

I would get rid of that ASAP, especially if you ride canyons/track days. Shorter gearing really perks the Hawk up, and gives a lot more punch at lower speeds. The time I spend at 150mph anymore is null... So I'd rather have the gearing work best for the speed range I'm using.

I'm running 15/42 and I LOVE it! Pulls the wheel up in first anytime I want, and it's super quick.

Gearing questions are like oil threads, but I can tell you that after many bikes owned and left stock (gearing-wise), I much prefer modifying the gearing to suit my riding style. It makes the bike more fun for me!

I prefer buying JT steel sprockets, because they last longer and are inexpensive. If you make the chain the correct length you can change back and forth between a 15 and a 16 front sprocket, and just change the adjusters to get the appropriate slack for each different sprocket.

James

jscobey

That's a good point. I also run steel sprockets. Lasts way longer. What's the stock gearing? I just always assumed I'm running stock gearing

saige

stock gearing is 16/41 with 102 links in chain

smokinjoe73

You didnt say what track but stock gearing is only good for a track like Daytona. Find out what your track day org says.

BUT, be aware that what the very fast guys run will be awful for you. You have to change gearing with skill, (which will hopefully improve).

Those fast guys are carrying way more corner speed so have different drive requirements.

I started racing going like 10 sec/ lap slower than the class champions. I had to slowly work my way to their gearing. Lower gearing is more forgiving of missed shifts but needs more shifting.

Stay away from aluminum sprockets on the hawk. You will think they are made of swiss cheese how fast they disappear.

kenmoore

Track days are great.

I have 2 tracks close by here in Oz .


They help you to get to know your bike and its shortcomings.


Track days are pricey, especially if you add in the mods that they necessitate.
But it's all good fun EH?

jscobey

i went to button willow out by bakersfeild CA. i think were gonna go to chuckwalla valley raceway next month

98VTRrider

Yes the track is addicting. Before long you will be looking for a dedicated track bike....at least that's what happened to me(although I was persuaded when I low sided the hawk on my 3rd track day.)


The spring rates will always be determined by the bike the forks are going on, not what model the forks are from. You are matching the springs to the bike/rider weight, regardless of what model the fork bodies are from. I have R6 forks on my FZR race bike, and when I called Racetech to find what spring rate I needed they used the FZR bike weight to match the spring rate, then I got that rate in a R6 spring.

Tweety

Quite true... But take into account the fact that the racetech calculator also considers the stock weight of the bike the forks belong too...

thedeatons

He mentioned he "called" Race Tech. I'm guessing they used their spring calculation formula to figure rates out, instead of the generic online version. Correct?

James

jscobey

i deffinatley get that. but the rc and the vtr are very close in weight. and also i was asking the catalyst reaction guy at the track if he thought i needed new springs and he said no. he said i was right in the optimum part of the stroke on both the forks and shock. he set my sag up and that he didnt need to set anything to any extremes, and he said my tire wear was looking reallly good front and back

jscobey

also ive already signed up to go back to buttonwillow march 29th with the same group of 15 guys. this time riding the track in the counter clockwise direction where as last time they ran it clockwise. im already hooked on the track. so much fun.

im wondering since i only weigh 150 lbs if the hawk flexes the same way as some guys closer to 200 lbs report. i never feel any flex or anything from the chasis. i only feel what seems like an ever so slight flex of the swingarm. maybe its because of the more rigid RC front end so it makes the rear end feel a little more flexible. but maybe i only think that because i know people say it flexes so im just relating what i feel to a known issue.

JamieDaugherty

For your weight (150lb) the 160N/mm spring on your rear shock is ok. Up front, you are way to stiff. The correct spring rate for you should be 0.85kg/mm. Don't forget the valving in the RC51 forks needs replaced too. It's the same parts as your stock VTR forks! I think you would be surprised at how much improvement you could get by setting up the front end correctly. There is also lots of room for improvement with the rear shock. Ohlins products are mass produced just like your stock parts so you need to get in there and fix that.

I hope this helps!

jscobey

Yea I'm gonna have the shock completely rebuilt soon as I don't know how many miles were put on it before I got the bike. Regardless I'm thinking when I do that ill have the forks setup for my weight. I'm at least in the right neighborhood currently and not wayyyyyy off. So you think I'm to stiff even for the track in the front?

JamieDaugherty

Yes, the only time you need higher springs rates on the track is if the bike is running slicks with an expert-level racer rider.

jscobey

So then I'm gonna have an optimum spring rate and valving for my weight regardless of riding conditions, and then at the track stiffen things up with settings and vice versa for the street?

JamieDaugherty

Same settings - people often over complicate things in regards to this. Once your suspension is set you are good.

jscobey

We'll things have seemed good since being set up by the catalyst reaction guys, so ill leave we'll enough alone until my wallet allows room for improvement

JamieDaugherty

Just an FYI: You cannot fix the inherent problems with stock suspension by performing external adjustments. Of course, the guys at the track who want your money will say otherwise!

Anyone who pushes down on a motorcycle as a means to "tune" the suspension does not understand the science behind a spring-mass-damper system. There is no way to accurate adjust a motorcycle without the rider on board and the motorcycle in motion.

jscobey

Of course u can't fix a spring rate issue with adjustments. And anyone who's doing any work wants you money so that's an odd thing to say. He was gonna get $40 weather he said I needed new springs or not. I just wanted them to set it up as best as possible with the current spring.

And how does anyone tune suspension with the bike in motion? Of course that's ideal but unrealistic. Besides the HP4's dynamic damping control but I doubt I'll be equipped with that anytime soon

JamieDaugherty

In fact, it is perfectly realistic. You do not make adjustments because 1) someone told you to 2) how the bike feels sitting still. Instead, you need to ride it and determine what the bike is doing (or not doing, as the case may be). That will tell you what adjustments need to be made.

Having a poor setup on stock suspension results in poor performance. Having an ideal setup on stock suspension results in poor performance!

insulinboy