headlights keep blowing
07-01-2015, 04:36 AM
#61
That one guy
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lol.
yeah, broke down yesterday on the way home from work. on the way to work, it hesistated and stuttered like it was out of gas, just one time for a second. it wasn't. on the way home, it did it again. and again, and again, until it finally died and wouldn't restart. right in the middle of an intersection of two 8 lane streets in Houston. yay. so I wheeled it over to a parking lot and walked home (luckily I was almost home). Walked back out to it when the sun was down to walk it home in cooler weather, and what do you know, started up and ran again.
it was acting like it either wasn't firing, or it was having problems getting gas, but tank was almost full. specifically, it was kind of acting like the pilot jet was clogged. didn't want to start, but once it started, if I kept the throttle at least a quarter turn open, it was fine. until it just died and wouldn't start. I'm going to test the r/r and give the carbs a cleaning and go from there.
yeah, broke down yesterday on the way home from work. on the way to work, it hesistated and stuttered like it was out of gas, just one time for a second. it wasn't. on the way home, it did it again. and again, and again, until it finally died and wouldn't restart. right in the middle of an intersection of two 8 lane streets in Houston. yay. so I wheeled it over to a parking lot and walked home (luckily I was almost home). Walked back out to it when the sun was down to walk it home in cooler weather, and what do you know, started up and ran again.
it was acting like it either wasn't firing, or it was having problems getting gas, but tank was almost full. specifically, it was kind of acting like the pilot jet was clogged. didn't want to start, but once it started, if I kept the throttle at least a quarter turn open, it was fine. until it just died and wouldn't start. I'm going to test the r/r and give the carbs a cleaning and go from there.
As far as the electrical problem with the lights I wish you good luck. Sounds like something might be arcing in the "always on" section of the harness. I would start by the tail light and work forward.
07-01-2015, 07:35 AM
#62
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the taillight problem was indeed a short. one of the wires for the taillight was bare and touching the subframe. fixed that.
I put a jumper in the sidestand connector to bypass the sensor, and it made no difference in the stuttering problem. bike was starting and idling fine, so i took it out for a test ride and it started doing it again.
so here's what it's doing: When I start it, it runs fine. for the first 5 minutes of a ride, bike is totally fine. but after about 5 minutes, If I coast or come to a stop, the bike dies, and doesnt want to start again. I can usually get it started again, but it takes several tries and I usually have to rev the **** out of it. Then, when I try to take off, it dies again right when I open the throttle. again, If i rev the **** out of it, and then let the clutch out slowly, it will start off, and once I am going, as long as I keep the throttle above 1/3rd open or so, it's fine. I just went for a 45 minute highway ride. it died on me when i stopped for a stoplight between my house and the highway. stutter stutter die rev start die start revhigh clutch out go, then 45 minutes of doing 80 with no problems, then I get off the exit and it dies again. then it dies at every single stop or anytime i let the throttle close too much.
The longer I've been riding, the faster it will die at low throttle and the less likely it is that I can get it restarted. If I sit and let it cool down, it starts again fine, until I try to start off, at which point i have to rev the **** out of it again.
If I hadn't just cleaned the carbs, I'd say it sounded like the idle mixture screws were set wrong or the pilot jet was clogged, but I don't think that's the case. plus the weird thing where it only does it hot.
it sounds a lot like the first post in this thread: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ix-pics-19843/
except I dont have problems accelerating once I get going from a standstill. and it isn't leaking fuel on the floor.
ideas? any help much appreciated, I'm super frustrated.
I put a jumper in the sidestand connector to bypass the sensor, and it made no difference in the stuttering problem. bike was starting and idling fine, so i took it out for a test ride and it started doing it again.
so here's what it's doing: When I start it, it runs fine. for the first 5 minutes of a ride, bike is totally fine. but after about 5 minutes, If I coast or come to a stop, the bike dies, and doesnt want to start again. I can usually get it started again, but it takes several tries and I usually have to rev the **** out of it. Then, when I try to take off, it dies again right when I open the throttle. again, If i rev the **** out of it, and then let the clutch out slowly, it will start off, and once I am going, as long as I keep the throttle above 1/3rd open or so, it's fine. I just went for a 45 minute highway ride. it died on me when i stopped for a stoplight between my house and the highway. stutter stutter die rev start die start revhigh clutch out go, then 45 minutes of doing 80 with no problems, then I get off the exit and it dies again. then it dies at every single stop or anytime i let the throttle close too much.
The longer I've been riding, the faster it will die at low throttle and the less likely it is that I can get it restarted. If I sit and let it cool down, it starts again fine, until I try to start off, at which point i have to rev the **** out of it again.
If I hadn't just cleaned the carbs, I'd say it sounded like the idle mixture screws were set wrong or the pilot jet was clogged, but I don't think that's the case. plus the weird thing where it only does it hot.
it sounds a lot like the first post in this thread: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ix-pics-19843/
except I dont have problems accelerating once I get going from a standstill. and it isn't leaking fuel on the floor.
ideas? any help much appreciated, I'm super frustrated.
07-01-2015, 11:34 AM
#63
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What kind of fuel are you running? My SH runs like crap if I put ethonol in it at any percentage and if it's under 91 octane. Since your going to tear it down to the carbs might as well check the filter up by the pet ****. If its gummed up partially then it might explain why you are having to run 1/4 throttle. Bad gas is a bitch.
As far as the electrical problem with the lights I wish you good luck. Sounds like something might be arcing in the "always on" section of the harness. I would start by the tail light and work forward.
As far as the electrical problem with the lights I wish you good luck. Sounds like something might be arcing in the "always on" section of the harness. I would start by the tail light and work forward.
I already solved the light problem, it was a bare wire touching the frame.
I am running shitty gas.
07-01-2015, 02:13 PM
#65
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07-01-2015, 03:22 PM
#66
That one guy
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Even if it's not the filter in the pet **** I would still check it and clean it if you are using shitty gas. I've known that to cause a lot of problems that are just down right weird in most cases.
07-03-2015, 10:59 AM
#68
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You all missed a couple of things with the info in this post........
Sure the homemade 2-1 and the K&N are going to cause all kinds of issues but the big no-no is.... the triangular rubber pieces that hold up the filter in the airbox have holes drilled in them.
These blocks are not there to hold up the filter (Sorry but had to laugh at that one...) but are to separate the small carb diaphragm fitler chambers from the main airbox.
If the foam filters are installed you now are pulling barely filtered air into the bottom of the airbox causing all kinds of weird issues.
If the foam filters are not installed you still get all the weird issues plus the added bonus of pulling unfiltered air into the airbox.......neither is a good situation.
Then the popping on decelerator, that is a lean condition. The stock filter should make this better if it is a tuning issue.
The fact that it didn't tells me you created a vacuum leak somewhere.
So minimum you need to contact K&N and get some new rubber blocks but IMHO in order to ever get it to run like it should you need to find the stock bits to get ride of all the modified crap....... as it sounds like someone didn't have a clue when they started messing with the bike, sorry to say.
07-03-2015, 11:01 AM
#69
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Run an advancer, then 89.
You should only need 91 on a STG1 engine or if you run an HRC (or clone) ECU.
07-03-2015, 11:06 AM
#70
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Sure it is possible to pick up some contaminates from a Gas station but the odds are pretty low.
Then for octane rating, with the low compression ration in these bikes, You could pee in the tank after a night of heavy drinking and she would fire off.....lol
07-03-2015, 11:09 AM
#71
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I am starting to wonder about you guys.....lol
You all missed a couple of things with the info in this post........
Sure the homemade 2-1 and the K&N are going to cause all kinds of issues but the big no-no is.... the triangular rubber pieces that hold up the filter in the airbox have holes drilled in them.
These blocks are not there to hold up the filter (Sorry but had to laugh at that one...) but are to separate the small carb diaphragm fitler chambers from the main airbox.
If the foam filters are installed you now are pulling barely filtered air into the bottom of the airbox causing all kinds of weird issues.
If the foam filters are not installed you still get all the weird issues plus the added bonus of pulling unfiltered air into the airbox.......neither is a good situation.
Then the popping on decelerator, that is a lean condition. The stock filter should make this better if it is a tuning issue.
The fact that it didn't tells me you created a vacuum leak somewhere.
So minimum you need to contact K&N and get some new rubber blocks but IMHO in order to ever get it to run like it should you need to find the stock bits to get ride of all the modified crap....... as it sounds like someone didn't have a clue when they started messing with the bike, sorry to say.
You all missed a couple of things with the info in this post........
Sure the homemade 2-1 and the K&N are going to cause all kinds of issues but the big no-no is.... the triangular rubber pieces that hold up the filter in the airbox have holes drilled in them.
These blocks are not there to hold up the filter (Sorry but had to laugh at that one...) but are to separate the small carb diaphragm fitler chambers from the main airbox.
If the foam filters are installed you now are pulling barely filtered air into the bottom of the airbox causing all kinds of weird issues.
If the foam filters are not installed you still get all the weird issues plus the added bonus of pulling unfiltered air into the airbox.......neither is a good situation.
Then the popping on decelerator, that is a lean condition. The stock filter should make this better if it is a tuning issue.
The fact that it didn't tells me you created a vacuum leak somewhere.
So minimum you need to contact K&N and get some new rubber blocks but IMHO in order to ever get it to run like it should you need to find the stock bits to get ride of all the modified crap....... as it sounds like someone didn't have a clue when they started messing with the bike, sorry to say.
i know the blocks aren't just there to hold up the air filter, i just don't know a name for them. there are no foam filters in place.
and yes, whoever worked on this bike before is a ******* moron.
to be clear, there was no popping on decel before I took the bike apart. so i prob didn't put one of the hoses back properly. with the 2-1, K&N, and larger jets, the bike was in a pretty good state of tune, other than the cutting out at low throttle. it didnt pop, acceleration was very good, etc. The mixture screws were out really far, though. like 3 turns or more.
going back to stock is a good idea. I'm about sick of this damn bike. it's so much fun to ride when it runs, but hell. if i wasn't about to move to a different part of the country, i'd just take the entire thing apart and rebuild from the crank up. no more cheap bikes.
07-04-2015, 12:36 AM
#72
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oookay. so it's finally not cutting out on me anymore. spent all frigging day today and half of yesterday working on it. learned some stuff about this bike today.
it's not the sidestand switch, bypassed that, same problem.
Fuel filter was clean, petcock diaphragm was healthy, petcock operational.
I bypassed the neutral position switch, or so I thought, and it was still doing it.
so I took the carbs completely apart piece by piece and meticulously cleaned them with my new parts washer and checked every single piece and rebuilt them.
put the stock filter back in with the carb diaphragm filter blocks back in place.
I checked the manual at every step of the way while rebuilding them, to make sure I didn't miss anything, and discovered some stuff I missed the first time. I'm used to 60s and 70's bikes from being an asst vintage mechanic for a bit, so I wasn't looking for some of this stuff, like:
The PAIR system is removed.
The carb heater system is removed.
The carb diaphragm filters are removed.
there were a couple places in the vacuum hoses that could have been allowing a vacuum leak.
The carbs have main jets stamped FACTORY 185 (or 182, my eyes are getting older). the needles are aftermarket with 5 clip positions, they were in the middle position.
There was lots and lots of general stupidity going on with the way the bike was put back together by whatever moron drilled out the airbox parts and removed the PAIR system, etc. so I put it all back together with good hoses and clean routing of hoses and cables, etc. took out a bunch of assinine redundant hose junctions, etc.
put it all back together, and right before i started it, i realized that in my heat exhaustion (95 in Houston today, uninsulated shop with an aluminum roof), I grounded the wrong wire from the neutral sensor. grounded the correct one, and now it's not cutting out on me. so I don't know if it's the neutral sensor or all the work I did on the fuel/air system, or both. It is still popping on decel even with the stock air filter back in, but that may be because i dropped the needles a position trying to get closer to stock, not thinking about how that would take it back towards lean.
anyway, it's not cutting off at low throttle or idle, thank god. it's running pretty good but not perfect, needs some tuning. I have a neutral sensor on the way already, so i'll throw that in when it gets here and see how it is. going to take it apart one more time tomorrow and raise the needles back up and set the pilot screws a hair richer. going to do a track day on monday, super glad I got her running. hope she stays that way.
couple questions:
1. why the hell can't you adjust the float height?
2. what is the advantage or disadvantage of removing the carb heating system?
thanks.
happy 4th
it's not the sidestand switch, bypassed that, same problem.
Fuel filter was clean, petcock diaphragm was healthy, petcock operational.
I bypassed the neutral position switch, or so I thought, and it was still doing it.
so I took the carbs completely apart piece by piece and meticulously cleaned them with my new parts washer and checked every single piece and rebuilt them.
put the stock filter back in with the carb diaphragm filter blocks back in place.
I checked the manual at every step of the way while rebuilding them, to make sure I didn't miss anything, and discovered some stuff I missed the first time. I'm used to 60s and 70's bikes from being an asst vintage mechanic for a bit, so I wasn't looking for some of this stuff, like:
The PAIR system is removed.
The carb heater system is removed.
The carb diaphragm filters are removed.
there were a couple places in the vacuum hoses that could have been allowing a vacuum leak.
The carbs have main jets stamped FACTORY 185 (or 182, my eyes are getting older). the needles are aftermarket with 5 clip positions, they were in the middle position.
There was lots and lots of general stupidity going on with the way the bike was put back together by whatever moron drilled out the airbox parts and removed the PAIR system, etc. so I put it all back together with good hoses and clean routing of hoses and cables, etc. took out a bunch of assinine redundant hose junctions, etc.
put it all back together, and right before i started it, i realized that in my heat exhaustion (95 in Houston today, uninsulated shop with an aluminum roof), I grounded the wrong wire from the neutral sensor. grounded the correct one, and now it's not cutting out on me. so I don't know if it's the neutral sensor or all the work I did on the fuel/air system, or both. It is still popping on decel even with the stock air filter back in, but that may be because i dropped the needles a position trying to get closer to stock, not thinking about how that would take it back towards lean.
anyway, it's not cutting off at low throttle or idle, thank god. it's running pretty good but not perfect, needs some tuning. I have a neutral sensor on the way already, so i'll throw that in when it gets here and see how it is. going to take it apart one more time tomorrow and raise the needles back up and set the pilot screws a hair richer. going to do a track day on monday, super glad I got her running. hope she stays that way.
couple questions:
1. why the hell can't you adjust the float height?
2. what is the advantage or disadvantage of removing the carb heating system?
thanks.
happy 4th
07-04-2015, 04:05 AM
#73
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Carb heaters only affect performance when thermostat is not fully open. (Engine not up to full operating temp)
Once the engine is fully warmed they are out of the coolant circuit. So they could smooth out ride-ability in cold weather.
Once the engine is fully warmed they are out of the coolant circuit. So they could smooth out ride-ability in cold weather.
07-04-2015, 05:56 AM
#74
That one guy
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Fuel does not usually cause any issues with these bikes.
Sure it is possible to pick up some contaminates from a Gas station but the odds are pretty low.
Then for octane rating, with the low compression ration in these bikes, You could pee in the tank after a night of heavy drinking and she would fire off.....lol
Sure it is possible to pick up some contaminates from a Gas station but the odds are pretty low.
Then for octane rating, with the low compression ration in these bikes, You could pee in the tank after a night of heavy drinking and she would fire off.....lol
07-05-2015, 08:36 PM
#75
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ARGH. it's still doing it. it's definitely electrical. Maybe the R/R took out the CDI on it's way out? it's taking longer for it to happen now, but it's still doing it. and it definitely goes thumper while it's stuttering. so frustrating.
What does the throttle sensor do on this bike?
What does the throttle sensor do on this bike?
07-05-2015, 09:26 PM
#76
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This is from the service manual:
"The transistorized ignition system uses an electrically controlled ignition timing system. No adjustments can be made to the ignition timing.
• The ignition control module (lCM) varies ignition timing according to the engine speed. The engine coolant temperature(ECT) sensor and throttle sensor signal the ICM to compensate the ignition timing according to the coolant temperature
and throttle opening.
"The transistorized ignition system uses an electrically controlled ignition timing system. No adjustments can be made to the ignition timing.
• The ignition control module (lCM) varies ignition timing according to the engine speed. The engine coolant temperature(ECT) sensor and throttle sensor signal the ICM to compensate the ignition timing according to the coolant temperature
and throttle opening.
07-06-2015, 01:29 PM
#78
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The TPS while helpful in how the bike runs, is not critical.
You can unplug it and the bike will run just fine as the ECU goes to a "default" map at that point,
A little less power and grunt but the bike will not stop running because of it.
You can unplug it and the bike will run just fine as the ECU goes to a "default" map at that point,
A little less power and grunt but the bike will not stop running because of it.
07-06-2015, 03:33 PM
#80
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Stupid(or not so stupid) question... maybe i missed your original explanation... but does this low idle cut out happen during certain circumstances? Starting off? Slowing down? Hard braking? Etc...
07-06-2015, 03:41 PM
#81
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it happens after i've been riding for a few minutes, i.e. when the bike gets hot. Once I've been out riding around, sometimes it takes a few blocks, sometimes it takes a couple miles, when I slow down enough for the bike to be at less than a 1/3 throttle, it stutters, goes single cylinder, stutters some more and dies. especially if I let the engine get down to idle speed. when I stop at a light, it immediately dies, and i have to restart it several times, rev the **** out of the engine, keep it revved, and then start off by releasing the clutch slowly. once I get it back up past 1/3 or so throttle, it doesn't die anymore. but it also doesn't sound quite right. But as long as I keep it at 1/3-1/2 or more throttle, it doesn't die again until I slow down. It doesnt matter what gear, either, it does it in all gears. what matters is letting the throttle close to the bottom 1/3 or so.
07-06-2015, 03:58 PM
#83
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IMHO even with off jetting this shouldnt happen, the only time ive run on one cylinder is when I fouled a plug from running too rich... it just sounds like you are not getting enough fuel or that fuel isnt combusting... that or the TPS or temp sensor is throwing the ignition waaayy off... just trying to cover all the basics
07-06-2015, 04:07 PM
#84
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The sensors don't have enough control to get the ignition so out of wack the bike quits running.
As it does it once warm I would say an ignition issue.
So IMHO the check list at that point would be Plugs, Coils, Harness issue then the ECU.
I might move the harness up the list as you have already found a bad wire.
As it does it once warm I would say an ignition issue.
So IMHO the check list at that point would be Plugs, Coils, Harness issue then the ECU.
I might move the harness up the list as you have already found a bad wire.
07-06-2015, 04:31 PM
#85
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IMHO even with off jetting this shouldnt happen, the only time ive run on one cylinder is when I fouled a plug from running too rich... it just sounds like you are not getting enough fuel or that fuel isnt combusting... that or the TPS or temp sensor is throwing the ignition waaayy off... just trying to cover all the basics
The spark plugs are relatively new. I put an inline tester on them, and they appear to be getting consistent spark. I can't replicate the stuttering or dying sitting still in my garage. I did finally notice that the fan isn't coming on when I let the bike sit still.
The sensors don't have enough control to get the ignition so out of wack the bike quits running.
As it does it once warm I would say an ignition issue.
So IMHO the check list at that point would be Plugs, Coils, Harness issue then the ECU.
I might move the harness up the list as you have already found a bad wire.
As it does it once warm I would say an ignition issue.
So IMHO the check list at that point would be Plugs, Coils, Harness issue then the ECU.
I might move the harness up the list as you have already found a bad wire.
Last edited by cccolin; 07-06-2015 at 04:35 PM.
07-07-2015, 05:09 PM
#87
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The fan switch is independent of the ECU; it simply closes a circuit to start the fan motor when hot.
If you've ruled out the fuel supply and plugs, then it might be time to check the coils.
I hate to come back to the fuel supply issue, but have you checked the vacuum line to the petcock, and the petcock itself? When you say the bike stutters on one cylinder, then stops altogether, it sort of sounds like not enough fuel flow from the tank to the carb bowls. Have you tried to drain these right after it cuts out to see if there is plenty of gas in there?
Hang in there Colin; I appreciate your posts and the positive attitude you are showing here.
If you've ruled out the fuel supply and plugs, then it might be time to check the coils.
I hate to come back to the fuel supply issue, but have you checked the vacuum line to the petcock, and the petcock itself? When you say the bike stutters on one cylinder, then stops altogether, it sort of sounds like not enough fuel flow from the tank to the carb bowls. Have you tried to drain these right after it cuts out to see if there is plenty of gas in there?
Hang in there Colin; I appreciate your posts and the positive attitude you are showing here.
07-07-2015, 05:12 PM
#88
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I'm checking the coils. it's not a fueling issue. the vacuum hose to the petcock is fine. i checked all the hoses and double checked them. I took the petcock apart and checked the diaphragm. it's fine. I checked the fuel filter. it's clean. I haven't tried draining the carbs, that was a mistake on my part.
07-07-2015, 07:51 PM
#89
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Coils get around .5 ohms primary and 13k secondary. I dont have a peak voltage adapter or an inspection adapter, so I have no idea if this part is correct, but unplugging the coil and sticking the mulitimeter probes in the connector, the voltage was reading around 80, which is too low. at any rate, by the resistance readings, the coils are fine.
07-07-2015, 09:17 PM
#90
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I'm guessing that you did the coil test while they were cool? Maybe next time the bike displays its bad/hot behaviour you could yank a spare plug from your pocket, hook it to the front spark plug lead and see if you are still getting a decent spark?
