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Petcock fix with pics

Old 08-11-2009, 10:55 AM
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Petcock fix with pics

I was having some idle and running issues and did a search. A few other posts explained the same issues that I had and the most recommended fix was a tear/leak in the petcock diaphragm.

The issues I had were
  • stalling out at idle
  • while cruising at 4-5k rpm I might lose power, be able to cruise but not accelerate more than a smart car with two fat men in it.
  • rev it up high in neutral and it would go no problem but not sound that great.
  • running rich
And the final one was the massive fuel leak on the garage floor. This problem happened just before I removed the tank and I had the other problems for quite a while before the leak.

The new parts, $45 Canadian from Honda, took 1 day to get them
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After you remove the seat and lower bolt from the tank put a towel over the metal bracket and seat area so you don't scratch your tank while flipping it upside down like I did.

Petcock on the tank, at the front is a square part that you turn to cut off the fuel prior to taking off the hoses. When you remove it with the two Allen bots be careful not to pull or rip the fuel filter and O ring that attaches to the bottom
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This is the part that gets replaced. Simply remove the four screws. Pay attention to the orientation of the openings. The kit comes with a new spring to go between the two plates.
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Back in with all the hoses reconnected.
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2 hoses go to the carb, they both have the clips on them and due to the bends can't be mixed up.

From what I read about the hook up it appears as my petcock was hooked up wrong so I would like someone to verify that this hook up is right. Also if anyone knows what the three unknown hoses are leading to please add that info.

Unknown # 1 has a small clip on it and goes to the side vent of the petcock. The bottom vent on the petcock vents to atmosphere. Here's a better pic of that hose Name:  0811091226a.jpg
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Unknown #2 goes to the far right side. *note* this should be the last hose removed and the first put back since it will leak fuel through the opening. This hose is long enough to leave it on while you flip the tank.

Unknown #3 goes to the larger opening beside #2, it's the only hose that will fit that opening.

Since #2 and #1 appear as they will fit either vent tie them off to their respective sides after removal so you don't mix them up.



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Old 08-11-2009, 11:40 AM
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Unknown #1 is the vacuum hose that makes the petcock work, and the one that people often mistakenly put on the air vent. (that creates PVLIR)

Unknown #2 is the tank vent (allows air into the tank to prevent it collapsing as the gas comes out)

Unknown #3 is the overflow hose (connects to the recessed part around the fill cap to drain excess gas from overfilling the tank)
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:50 AM
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good write up, thanks.
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:50 AM
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i have a rip in my petcock diaphragm also, parts should be here today did this fix your running issues? Im running really rich with poor low to mid performance.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:25 AM
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Bit of an old thread revival. My petcock is leaking and I want to rebuild it, my Honda dealer cannot find a rebuild kit although he can find the part number on the bag below:

Originally Posted by minispeed View Post


The new parts, $45 Canadian from Honda, took 1 day to get them




His computer says "cover" when he punches in the above part number, but it is about $45. Has anyone else had any luck ordering the above part number? Does it include all three pieces that the above photo shows? I PM'd the OP for input but without a response yet I am getting impatient (sorry).

The parts guy wants me to buy a whole petcock saying Honda does not show a "rebuild kit"...Frankly, that makes me want to chuck the whole bike in the crusher and move on.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:00 AM
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Having had to replace two already, I have a complete rebuild kit on stand-by in case it happens again (won`t have to worry about any backorder silliness raining on my parade)...
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:17 PM
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Thanks for sharing. I think it's time to do the rebuild on mine because it doesn't shut off completely.

I was advised by a dealer that I had to buy the entire assembly for around $200.
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:39 PM
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I think, if I am remembering right, if your spring is fine, there are several years of goldwings with similar petcocks and the diaphragm from their rebuild kit could be used.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by storm_rider View Post
Thanks for sharing. I think it's time to do the rebuild on mine because it doesn't shut off completely.

I was advised by a dealer that I had to buy the entire assembly for around $200.
Thats what they tell me, don't do it...I purchased an after market rebuild kit today (contains all the rubber pieces, screws and spring) on ebay from these guys:

http://stores.shop.ebay.ca/Sirius-Co...__W0QQ_armrsZ1

Only $21
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:18 PM
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I found this rebuild kit on ebay too:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA...item58882b3779

JB
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Old 07-01-2010, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kraher View Post
Thats what they tell me, don't do it...I purchased an after market rebuild kit today (contains all the rubber pieces, screws and spring) on ebay from these guys:

http://stores.shop.ebay.ca/Sirius-Co...__W0QQ_armrsZ1

Only $21
And it hasn't worked, I have carefully re-assembled this petcock three times with the above rebuild kit. Sometimes it works until I apply a vacuum (suck on the hose), at which point gas flows and removing the vacuum does not stop the flow.

Other times I assemble it and it leaks almost immediately.

Frustration is setting in as this bike seems to be fighting me every step of the way, it does not want to run again.

I am beginning to think it was not assembled properly by a PO (certainly the vacuum port points straight down, not to the side as it should). Does anyone have a drawing or an explanation of how to assemble it properly?

I have assembled it in a way that seems self explanatory, and in the same way that I originally disassembled it.

Any information would be appreciated, thanks.
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Old 07-01-2010, 01:16 PM
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The port pointing straight down on the petcock is the went for the backside of the membrane... That should not have a line on it... The line on the middle of the backside should most definetly go to the side... Look at the pics in the top posts...
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Old 07-01-2010, 01:26 PM
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Quick question while there are pics, but do all Hawks have the petcock mounted to the bottom of the tank?

I only ask because my 2001 has it attached to the frame next to the tank mount.

Makes it a bit more interesting when removing the tank.

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Old 07-01-2010, 01:37 PM
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Nope... 97-00 has them on the tank, the newer all have them on the frame like yours... Why remove it? Just stick in the hinge and tilt them back with a rag in between... If necessary it's one bolt to remove that from the frame...

BTW that's mainly used to lift at the rear end of bikes for various purposes, I was just using it so I wouldn't knock the tank over... Just don't do that with a full tank or pinch the overflow and vent lines first...
Attached Thumbnails Petcock fix with pics-005.jpg  

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Old 07-01-2010, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
The port pointing straight down on the petcock is the went for the backside of the membrane... That should not have a line on it... The line on the middle of the backside should most definetly go to the side... Look at the pics in the top posts...
Agreed, the vent is not covered.

On my last attempt at petcock re-assembly I did rotate the port to the side again. This did not help, it leaked everywhere long before any vacuum was applied.

Not sure why the port would need to be sideways, when I look at the cover I cannot see a difference, I assume Honda must have been worried about the vacuum line getting kinked and not releasing (or building) a vacuum.
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Old 07-01-2010, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kraher View Post
Agreed, the vent is not covered.

On my last attempt at petcock re-assembly I did rotate the port to the side again. This did not help, it leaked everywhere long before any vacuum was applied.

Not sure why the port would need to be sideways, when I look at the cover I cannot see a difference, I assume Honda must have been worried about the vacuum line getting kinked and not releasing (or building) a vacuum.
I think I have found the cause of the problem, but I have no idea how to fix it:

My vacuum is not releasing, when I held the diaphragm "sandwich" together and used a tube to suck (with my mouth) on the vacuum port it would easily draw the diaphragm in, but when I stop sucking the vacuum does not relieve. In fact I could let go of the "sandwich" and the vacuum is strong enough to hold it together, regardless of the spring attempting to force them apart.

This is consistent with my findings of the petcock typically working immediately after assembly until I apply vacuum once at which point the petcock never closes again.

The reason for this could be one of two things:
  • I can only blow/suck through the vacuum port in one direction (suck). I cannot blow through it at all. In effect this is functioning as a one way valve. Is this the way it is supposed to be? If so, how is the vacuum relieved to close the petcock?
    • I attempted to force some WD-40 through the port (using the WD-40 straw), I could not get anything to flow through it.
    • It does appear that there is some basic mechanism (another diaphragm?) on the vacuum port, I could see no easy way to disassemble this to inspect it.
  • This is the way it is supposed to function and I have not waited long enough? Does this vacuum port allow a VERY small amount of flow back through it, requiring a few seconds or a minute to close it?
    • This seems unlikely to me because of one past experience: Last fall when I went to drain the floats it seemed like an awful lot of gas was being drained (certainly more than the float bowl/hose could hold). I didn't think anything of it at the time as my reason for draining the carb was to get Stabil into the float bowls more so than drain the floats. Of course my new found knowledge of this petcock has shown me that this would not be possible.
I am looking for any thoughts on the cause/solution.

Thanks.
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Old 07-04-2010, 06:05 PM
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Bump

Hope I have not stumped the gurus....please help.

Am I looking at a new petcock?
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:30 PM
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I ordered Honda part #16953-ML0-034 from the dealer. Should have it in a day or 2 so that I can re-build mine.

I would just make sure I pay attention when I take mine apart, and then re-assemble it properly.

Sounds simple enough, not sure why you are having problems??

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Old 07-04-2010, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by storm_rider View Post
I ordered Honda part #16953-ML0-034 from the dealer. Should have it in a day or 2 so that I can re-build mine.

I would just make sure I pay attention when I take mine apart, and then re-assemble it properly.

Sounds simple enough, not sure why you are having problems??
I am not sure why I am having problems either. When you take yours apart, can you please let me know if you can blow/suck air in both directions through the vacuum port?

Mine is uni-directional so far, not sure if this is correct or not. If this is correct I have no idea how the vacuum is supposed to "release" to stop flow.

Thanks.
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:11 PM
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I remember hearing that you can empty the tank by just providing suction on the petcock for a brief moment.. So that sounds normal. Perhaps there is positive pressure in there for a second when you shut down? Or perhaps it shuts off if there is no fuel flow?
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Old 07-06-2010, 01:23 PM
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AFAIK it's a combination of no pressure, the spring and no flow... Ie as long as you have fuel flowing, it will stay open without pressure... That's normal... So for all I know, your petcock should work as intended kraher... Dunno what tests on the bike yielded? Or have you only tested it off the bike?

BTW What is it with you guys and WD40? It has absolutely no business near a fuel line, let alone the petcock... It's not a wonderful multi use chemical that cures all ill's... It'a giant PITA that messes up most things people try to use it on without knowing the effects... Take that petcock apart and clean every last molecule of WD40 of those membranes or you will be replacing them in a few months time...
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:08 PM
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Kraker - mine does not immediately turn off either - takes about 5-10 seconds to finally stop flowing. I can't imagine that it would be critical though.
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Old 07-06-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lazn View Post
I remember hearing that you can empty the tank by just providing suction on the petcock for a brief moment.. So that sounds normal. Perhaps there is positive pressure in there for a second when you shut down? Or perhaps it shuts off if there is no fuel flow?
Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
AFAIK it's a combination of no pressure, the spring and no flow... Ie as long as you have fuel flowing, it will stay open without pressure... That's normal... So for all I know, your petcock should work as intended kraher... Dunno what tests on the bike yielded? Or have you only tested it off the bike?
Originally Posted by revhead1957 View Post
Kraker - mine does not immediately turn off either - takes about 5-10 seconds to finally stop flowing. I can't imagine that it would be critical though.
Thanks for all the replies, I was beginning to think I had stumped the gurus.

The way I originally discovered the "problem" was that I disconnected the fuel line after the bike had not run in (at least) a few days and gas started pouring everywhere. Luckily I was able to plug it with my finger and had an 8mm wrench within reach to close the valve.

I guess I can see the vacuum taking a few seconds to stop flow, but days?? If it is days why not just have a gravity feed? I could easily live with it this way if I could turn the gas off without lifting the tank. I am not a fan of gas-oil or hydro-locked cylinders.

Unless, as said by lazn it takes a low flow condition to close. But, the testing I did most recently did not even have the petcock assembled, just the back "sandwich" (no flow whatsoever) and it still was not releasing the vacuum. If I have nuts to temporarily assemble the sandwich I can perform a longer than 10 second test.

Regarding tests on the bike: What tests can be done? The bike runs fine and is clearly getting fuel. Disconnecting the fuel line(s) after not running or cranking in days results in fuel gushing everywhere. I think the float needles are holding off the flow as they should, but I don't like relying on that too much.

Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
BTW What is it with you guys and WD40? It has absolutely no business near a fuel line, let alone the petcock... It's not a wonderful multi use chemical that cures all ill's... It'a giant PITA that messes up most things people try to use it on without knowing the effects... Take that petcock apart and clean every last molecule of WD40 of those membranes or you will be replacing them in a few months time...
WD-40 is about as easy to buy in North America as milk, I think that is why it is so widely used. What would you recommend for cleaning fuel lines and other rubbers?

WD-40 was merely used because it has that convienient "straw" that I thought could be used to clear the vacuum port...to no avail. In my experience WD seems safe for rubber, but I am no expert and am certainly not going to pass that on as truth.

Thanks again for all the help...god I love forums for troubleshooting.
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kraher View Post
If I have nuts to temporarily assemble the sandwich I can perform a longer than 10 second test.
I found 4 correctly sized nuts, it has now been about an hour since the vacuum has been applied and the diaphram/spring has yet to "return".

I'm stumped, what exactly is the point of the vacuum petcock if it never closes?
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post

BTW What is it with you guys and WD40? It has absolutely no business near a fuel line, let alone the petcock... It's not a wonderful multi use chemical that cures all ill's... It'a giant PITA that messes up most things people try to use it on without knowing the effects... Take that petcock apart and clean every last molecule of WD40 of those membranes or you will be replacing them in a few months time...
+1...WD40 is petroleum distillate, which will eat up rubber or neoprene eventually. To slip on fuel lines more easily, I use carb spray. It also has a handy little red straw.
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:42 PM
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It should be fairly obvious... Clean stuff with fuel... That's after all what the fuel line is made for...

BTW, that's not right... It should take a while and all, but it should close...
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Old 07-07-2010, 02:03 AM
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Whew,
I'm glad I don't have this problem...however, my 01 has the petcock mounted to the underside of the tank. Is this specific to the 19L Euro tanks?
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by VTRsurfer View Post
+1...WD40 is petroleum distillate, which will eat up rubber or neoprene eventually. To slip on fuel lines more easily, I use carb spray. It also has a handy little red straw.
Gasoline is a distillate of petroleum as well. WD40 is mostly kerosene. It's also safe for most rubber. Again, depends on the type of rubber you're talking about. They make "rubber" o-rings out of hundreds of different compounds.
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Old 07-07-2010, 11:23 AM
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The diaphragm of a petcock is not the kind of rubber that likes WD40... But yeah, I know it comes from basically the same base product...
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post

BTW, that's not right... It should take a while and all, but it should close...
I have been at work for a few hours, but before I left the petcock had still not released. I left it overnight.

The thing is, unless my vacuum port is buggered and only flowing one direction this makes perfect sense to me. There is no way for air to get back in and allow the spring to push the diaphragm back.

99 VTR1000 for sale...cheap, problems unknown with petcock.
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