VoodooDog

divingindaytona

Please let me clarify the queston: For the fokes out there that do there own work (tuning).

Did you have any problems tuning the carbs after an aftermarket air filter was installed?

Also, what brand of aftermarket filter did you use?

lazn

Mine is stock, so I am not in the group you are directly addressing..

However what I have read is that the SH is more sensitive about intake changes than exhaust changes. With a aftermarket filter you HAVE to do some form of jetting or shimming or it usually will not run right. However exhaust you can change and leave the carbs alone.

As for how hard it is, it is just as hard as doing a jet kit... The Factory kit is supposed to be easier to install than the Dynojet one.

Thumper

+1

Jardine High mounts and +4 degree ignition advance.

It's only an issue if you are not mechanically inclined or do not have the dough to pay someone to fine tune it for you.

For those that complain about Aftermarket filters making the VTR run worse, they just didn't take time to tune it correctly or didn't knoe how too.

It's sort of a hit or miss on the tuning, you most likely will install the jet kit and have to go back in and adjust needle position, air screw or even the mains at least once or twice till you get it spot on.

If you are not prepared to do that, then don't waste your time and money on the filter upgrade.

Thumper

Wrong, i have a 98 and mine is tuned dead on the correct air/fuel mixture ratio on the Dyno from bottom to top in the RPM range.

Just takes time to tune it in right......

SuperHawkins

I'd agree to this, it CAN be done....it just takes a great tuner and lots of time. I have a 98 as well with a K&N, removed intake snorkel, Scorpion slips, and Factory Pro jet kit....and it's DEAD-ON at wide open throttle and makes great power....but the off-idle to 3k is slushy and weak and it pops on decel when it falls into the 3500 and below range. Just not enough time with the tune...he got it so it made good power and a/f at WOT, and just tweaked the fine stuff enough so it would idle and thats about it.

And even then, it hiccups and cuts out. It's the name of the game. I'm meticulous about tunes and I can set up some Ford EEC-4 systems by ear so spot-on you wouldn't believe me, but put me in front of a carburetor and I turn into a retard.

So moral of the story, if you're willing to deal with the costs and hassles, an aftermarket filter and jet kit will definitely boost your performance. But the power output vs costs , problems, & time....I'd say to your average rider, it's not worth it. Stick to slips and sprockets and enjoy your fat, meaty low and mid-range. Oh and get that damn TPS sensor set correctly....theyre never right

RK1

I tried tuning my '03 with Vance & Hines street baffle S4s and Dynojet kit to the BMC race filter. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to run right below 4k rpm. After 7 or 8 combos of jets and needle position I gave up and went back to the OEM filter.

My guess is that the BMC race flows too much air to work with anything but a very free flowing race exhaust system. Also, if you hold this filter up to the light and look through it, it doesn't inspire confidence in its ability to filter the air.

The Erion Racing guys, who did extensive tuning on VTRs when they first came out, claimed that none of the aftermarket filters they tried would allow the engine to make as much power as with the stock filter.

8541Hawk

Such a stong responce...... I did say it didn't happen to all of them but there are some that just don't run right with an aftermarket filter. I guess the guys at Moriwaki and HRC didn't know what they were talking about either when they told me to run the stock air filter....... Would you like a copy of the e-mail Bob Hayashida sent me telling me to run the stock filter?? I've had this bike for over
10yrs now and have a fair about of carb tuning under my belt and I can tell you that my scoot would not run right with a K&N, it either had a fat spot down low or went lean on the top. There are good reasons why I went with an HRC jet kit and even then I'm using the Moriwaki set up of only using the HRC needles and front slide with the stock jets and pilots.
But YMMV

8541Hawk

As did HRC and Moriwaki but what do those guys know......

Hawkrider

It depends on your intake mods, your exhaust, and the jet kit you're using. That's what really decides if the aftermarket filter will work for you. Some have found the combination that works. Some have not. I'm not bashing Bob H. or anyone else. The man has done a lot of R&D and is responsible for a lot of cool aftermarket parts for the VTR (though most don't exist anymore ). I got lucky and found the combination. I dyno'd 110 back in '00 at KWS Motorsports using the Factory kit, minor airbox mods, K&N, and the Hindle exhaust. She doesn't have the Hindle anymore, and jetting is off a bit with the single sided exhaust. I don't know if another brand slip-on would make any difference. Anyone want to buy me one and I'll volunteer to have before and after dyno runs done!

Thumper

Well who am i to buck HRC, and the Mighty Moriwaki.

All i know is i have excellent Air/Fuel ratio on the dyno, dyno chart and throttle response do not lie.

I installed Factory Pro Ti kit instead of HRC stuff and i run a 48 pilot jet instead 50 that came in the FP kit (stock is 45). Of course the smog crap and +4 degree ignition advance all play into this as well as re-routing your carb sync lines so you can sync the carbs in about 5 miuntes.

I also run a rear emulsion tube in the front carb. The emulsion tubes are not the same between the front and rear carb. FP recommended years ago to change the emulsion tubes.

I like to tinker with my bikes and i do all my own work. I am not a mechanic, but i should have been. I actually am a friggn server Admin. Motorcycles are my hobby, so taking the tank off several times to fine tune a engine is something i enjoy.

Just like tonight, i just got in from the garage from taking the came out of my SuperMoto as i need to buy valve shims to readjust the valve clearence.

Carb tuning is like black magic and elevation affect the outcome as well.

My SuperChicken has no stumble, no surge, no dead spot and will take full throttle at any speed with out even a shudder. She has been that way for 5 or 6 years and purs like a kitten.


It really comes down to how much time you want to spend or money. As i said earlier, if you don't have the skills or the money to do it right then don't, but don't say it can't be done correctly with an after market filter, because it can.

8541Hawk

Well I guess you didn't read my first or second post completely. I said "some" can't be tuned for some reason. I didn't say flatly that it can't be done. What I did say was there have been a few around that just don't seem to like an aftermarket filter and it appeared to be more of an issue with the earlier bikes. With that all I can say is that it is just as closed minded to say that all bikes (or all bikes of the same model) can be made to work with an aftermarket filter as it would be to say that they can't be made to run with one, which you imply I have said, and I still don't understand where you got that from.
Every motor will respond differently and must be tuned to what it wants. I added the others I had worked with because of your inferance that if you can't make the bike work you either don't have $$ or just can't tune, which is rather an insulting thing to say. So as with anything you find on the web YMMV

divingindaytona

The reason why I ask this is because
1) replacing the stock air filter is spendy $$$.
2)The aftermarket filters run about the same amount and can be washed
3) I was curious what results fokes have had.

I have read posts that say "dont use an aftermarket filter" and others that say its ok to do it.

4) Its time to replace my stock air filter.

I have a 02 with yosh slip ons, and a factory jet kit. The bike runs excelent in her current form. It just took a while to get the jetting right. I realy dont want to mess with that.

Thoughts?

RK1

My thoughts;

The OEM filter costs about 45 bucks online, is good for 12k miles, and you like the way your bike runs with it.

A K&N or BMC will cost roughly twice as much and and likely be accompanied by the need to yank the carbs and start all over on the jetting.

I'd have to think about... for about one and a half seconds.

Tucknroll

Ain't that the truth. I am running a K&N along with the Dynojet kit, and TBR's and the SH seem's to love the combination. A good friend used to race a superhawk so I have been able to get alot of advice from him as well as this site around tuning.[/QUOTE]


I agree I have the same set-up and the bike runs great!!

SuperHawkins

As was said earlier, carb tuning is voodoo. If the bike runs great, DO NOT MESS with it. Replace it with a factory filter. Unless you want to deal with hours worth of tuning problems and more often than not, in the end, be slightly disappointed with how your bike runs around town. I love my bike in the midrange and the high rpms make me want to blow a load. But around town, being completely honest with ya, it sucks unless you keep the revs above 3500. Otherwise, it surges and loads up.

Not to demonize any particular part or combination...and if I had to do it again, I would, because I'm all about that every last drop of power all the way to redline...the midrange torque is enough that I'm not worried about basement revs. But would I ever advise someone else to do it? Nope.

RK1

I don't know if carb tuning is voodoo, but I know it can be a real pain in the ***.

As I've mentioned before, I tried to tune my bike with V&H aluminum (street baffle) cans to the BMC race filter with the DJ kit. After pulling the carbs 6 or 8 times I gave up and went back to the OEM filter with DJ 175f/180r and needle 5th slot from top. That is roughly the DJ equal of stock jetting with shimmed needles. Bike now pulls like a locomotive from idle on up. Throttle response is perfect.

If you wish to try an after market filter, and you enjoy pulling the carbs over and over and over again, if you are a bit of a glutton for punishment, have at it. The best you can hope for is what? Another 3 or 4 horsepower at 9000 rpm? Whoopie!

Ok. I wasn't after that 3 or 4 H.P. on top. I was after better throttle response and roll on. Between resetting the TPS and rejetting, I've got it. But it was a pain in the *** to get here. My personal semi scientific wild *** guess is that a lot of guys having trouble getting their VTRs to run well with mods are jetted too rich, but that is just my opinion.