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VTR - Running really badly

Old 02-06-2012, 12:29 AM
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VTR - Running really badly

I have a huge problem and i really need to fix it, however, I cant find any faults :S

About 6 months ago I sent my bike to a local bike shop for gearbox repairs, and they used genkem glue to re-assemble my engine.....instead of gaskits, AND, converted my tensioners to manual tensioners and snapped my cams :S SO, i had to replace my motor.

With the new motor, there does not seem to be as much power as there should be, she doesnt wanna power wheelie anymore, unless i full tap on an incline :S AND, the bike limits at 7K RPM, and blows out puffs of black smoke. If i do get more than 7k, it splutters all the way to a wopping 7.5K

This seems to be over fueling to me, I can smell fuel from the exhausts when I start her up, and no matter how i set the carb, it does the exact same thing.

Anyone had this kind of issue, please can you help me out, I owe 30k on this bike still and really need to fix her :S I was really inlove with this bike, but now its just become a horrible ride I actually dont like riding it anymore due to this.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:32 AM
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I would start by checking your enrichment circuit (choke) lines really well. If they are not working properly or the little attachments were broken and are not seating properly, you may be running rich.

After that, my next step would be to go through the carbs, making sure the jets all look good (the mains not ovaled out from wear or the pilot needles seating properly)

If you have the tools to do a compression test, that can rule out a lot. (You can get a decent kit for around 30 bucks. Very helpful and you can use it on all of your vehicles). This can rule out valve, head gasket, and ring issues in your new motor.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:34 AM
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Also, this is probably not likely, but I re-routed my wires and blocked the airbox intake once and it had huge problems after 7k rpm.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:44 AM
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Is the timing 180 degrees out?
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:50 AM
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^^ definitely something to check for
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:48 PM
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Did you let the same shop put the new motor in?
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:47 PM
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One cylinder not running? Maybe a bad coil. You would smell gads and have loss of power
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:21 PM
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7moore7 - I suspect the choke, will check this out again.

The issue is coming in at 7k, so ill check the airbox aswell.

Wicky - wouldnt timing cause serve idling issues, or really bad riding up to 7k?
She climbs to 7k very quick, and smooth, but without the power she used to have.

Spladle160 - im not a total retard LOL NAH i wouldnt have even sent my lawnmower to that shop, but insurance insisted they did the repairs as they were the only approved dealership in my province ( State )
The second time, I threw a major fit, and had the insurance transport the bike 600km's to do the engine transplant......and cause they so far away :S I cant take it back, AND, since my insurance didnt want to cover the repairs, and i threw such a fit and made them cover, now they dont want to fix it again.

Waynehammer - would it even get to 7k on one cylinder? She still wheelies, but not as well. Doesnt burn too hot, and gives spark on both cylinders.

Guys, thank you for all the help, im hoping that with all the great advice I receive here, ill be able to fix my baby.....she really is my pride and joy.....

the biggest problem I have in the country im in......is I cant get spares here not at reasonable prices anyways.......I also need to replace my headlight, I had a log come off a truck and hit me, lucky I stayed upright and didnt come off, so my mirror and headlight need replacing. mirror - R500 ( $61.35 ) and headlight from agents - R6 500 - R10 500 ( Between $797.55 and $1288.34 )
Oh, and a fairing kit......from the agents......R25 000 - thats around $3067.48 CRAZY!!!!!

Last edited by acks; 02-06-2012 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:15 PM
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From your description of the dealership, it seems like some of the places I have seen in south America and Africa. Which country is that? What currency is R? It's not Brazil, the numbers don't match... Is it South African Rand???
I'm sure there are ways to get to you used parts with less custom & taxes you have to pay for
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by acks View Post
I have a huge problem and i really need to fix it, however, I cant find any faults :S

About 6 months ago I sent my bike to a local bike shop for gearbox repairs, and they used genkem glue to re-assemble my engine.....instead of gaskits, AND, converted my tensioners to manual tensioners and snapped my cams :S SO, i had to replace my motor.

With the new motor, there does not seem to be as much power as there should be, she doesnt wanna power wheelie anymore, unless i full tap on an incline :S AND, the bike limits at 7K RPM, and blows out puffs of black smoke. If i do get more than 7k, it splutters all the way to a wopping 7.5K

This seems to be over fueling to me, I can smell fuel from the exhausts when I start her up, and no matter how i set the carb, it does the exact same thing.

Anyone had this kind of issue, please can you help me out, I owe 30k on this bike still and really need to fix her :S I was really inlove with this bike, but now its just become a horrible ride I actually dont like riding it anymore due to this.
You definitively not burning all the fuel in the cylinders, either due to carbs or valves, the air box obstruction would have caused choking when you open in full.
In any case, I agree with 7moore7, that would be the correct sequence to approach the problem, first rule out the most easier and cheaper, that for many, even mechanics it is not the most obvious choice.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by acks View Post
Wicky - wouldnt timing cause serve idling issues, or really bad riding up to 7k?
She climbs to 7k very quick, and smooth, but without the power she used to have.
www.vtr1000.org • View topic - Timing 180 degree's out

www.vtr1000.org • View topic - pilot screw setting

As others have suggested , work methodically through your various systems.

Keep us updated on progress and the eventual solution.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:33 AM
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Yea.....South African Rands.

Honda dealerships are mad with there prices......we got 2 here, and they wickedly expensive. Could not believe my ears when I heard it......

Well iv discovered ebay just bought a set of blade clutch and brake levers. Each month im going to try buy something else. Next its the headlight :S and while im saving for all the bits, Ill try sort out the darn motor.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Wicky View Post
www.vtr1000.org • View topic - Timing 180 degree's out

www.vtr1000.org • View topic - pilot screw setting

As others have suggested , work methodically through your various systems.

Keep us updated on progress and the eventual solution.
Wicky, seriously......I owe you a frikken beer!!!!!! OR A BLOODY CRATE!!!!!!

This is EXACTLY what mine is doing.......I can hear the miss.......im so so so sure this is the problem.....Ill strip the motor head off this weekend and take a look......I seriously think this could be it
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:07 AM
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It's a known problem when following the Haynes manual procedure for setting timing - Best use the Workshop knowledgebase article on setting up Manual CCTs. Careful with the alternator cover timing hex access caps - very soft & cheesey and invariably need careful drifting round with a hammer & drift.

Good luck on finding the fault

PS Real Ale drinker (CAMRA) though partial to vin ;-)
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:44 AM
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Ok.....got some work done....

Stripped the bike, and checked out the cams.....honestly didnt expect to see so many marks.....however, everything seemed to be in place . FE pointing one side, and FI pointing the other, and all cams at the correct angles.

HOWEVER, stripped the choke, to find that the springs in there had basically disintegrated. So I replaced these, re assembled, and.......same issue :S except this time I got an extra 500rpm :S

Back to the drawing board......thought simple....very simple.....what can do this.....decided its a long shot, seemed like the bike was choking......and.....i feel like an idiot

When they did everything on my bike, they were supposed to service her and everything......I pulled out my air filter, AND SHE NOW REVS!!!!!!!!!!

Seems like the filter was clogged :S Not buying a new one as the agents want an arm and a leg for a new one, SO, I modified another filter waiting for the silicon to dry, and ill be putting it in first thing in the morning

I honestly never thought it was the filter.....even if it wasnt replaced, it was perfect on the old motor.....unless they put in a dead one....which i honestly wouldnt put past that shop
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:29 AM
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Yay! Good to hear progress has been made. Though getting a new OEM filter and biting the bullet, would be advised to achieve baseline performance, as the VTR is very fussy about air-filter/airbox changes (search for K&N filter threads) that need rejetting to keep up/improve the performance.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:20 PM
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Thanks Wicky. If my air filer mod doesn't work, I'll be back on Ebay to order an original one. I'll also take a pix of the mod, if it works hundreds, I'll post the pics
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:37 AM
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Ok scrap that.....new filer in, won't pass 6k, filer out, same thing....feels like its starving and can smell fuel heavy. Going to pull off the tank now and check the suction pipe
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Old 02-12-2012, 07:25 PM
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When you have the airbox cover off, check the carb slides to make sure they move freely and that they don't just "snap" back. The diaphragms should prevent that by forcing air through a small orifice in the carbs. If they do snap back that means the diaphragm is probably torn.

Also, did the filter ever get wet, or look like it got wet? Wet dirt turns into mud which blocks airflow.

A heavy fuel smell from where? The exhaust? If it won't burn fuel above a certain rpm then that sounds like some sort of ignition problem to me...or the bike is jetted SUPER rich.
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Old 02-12-2012, 08:39 PM
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Well, pulled the air filer out again....nice induction sound, and taking full revs again. Just out of interest I devised to try a stocking over the air box just to stop crap getting in there when I test rode....even that is choaking her. She does not want an air filter...my guess is that's carb settings
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:01 PM
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What is the altitude where you live? Where did you buy the bike? Any prior history on it's life?
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:09 AM
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I live in a city called Durban, its coastal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durban

As far as I know, im the second owner, and the old owner didnt ride her hard. She has about 25000km on the clock, however, she now has a replacement motor, so i dont know the history on that engine.

Bought the bike from a bike STEALERship here, bunch of morons.

I use the bike everyday, to work and back.


The diaphrams - When I push the carb sliders up, they slide back down, Not too fast though. If I get a chance ill take a video and link it here.

Last edited by acks; 02-13-2012 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:22 AM
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Found a new filter on ebay for 20 pounds ( around 10 pounds to ship here ) Ill prob end up buying this one.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:02 PM
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Just seen something and it worries me a little.

On my rear Tappet cover - I have a section that looks like there is supposed to be something on there, however, there is nothing on there......any idea what it could be?

Iv found a pic on this forum of it. That silver goodie with the pipe
Attached Thumbnails VTR - Running really badly-screen-shot-2012-02-15-8.55.48-am.jpg  
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:48 PM
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That is part of the PAIR system, it may have been removed from your bike, a common practice.
Check on this thread, it will give you some insight:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...uestion-27542/
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Old 02-17-2012, 03:33 AM
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LOOK WHAT JUST ARRIVED FROM HONG KONG

I CANT WAIT TO PUT THEM ON!!!!!!!!!!!!
Attached Thumbnails VTR - Running really badly-20120217_124709.jpg  
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:58 PM
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ok, got digital versions of the service manuals on my computer....now im set to read up EVERYTHING!

Spoke to a mechanic, he rekons, if it wont rev with the filter, but will rev without it, then its too lean. Says im gonna need bigger jets
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NHSH View Post
That is part of the PAIR system, it may have been removed from your bike, a common practice.
Check on this thread, it will give you some insight:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...uestion-27542/
WRONG!!! There IS supposed to be something there. That's the crankcase breather port. There is supposed to be a molded hose that goes to the airbox.

See pic below...
Attached Thumbnails VTR - Running really badly-breather.jpg  
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:07 PM
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If you used the same carbs that were on your old motor then you should not be having a lean problem. The leanness is coming from somewhere else, maybe that missing hose, maybe carb boots, maybe a vacuum leak (cracked hose [rear] or missing port plug [front]).
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