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Please "Correct the ConFused"

Old 09-09-2010, 05:32 AM
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Please "Correct the ConFused"

What is the Easiest ConVersion??

Reading about the conversion/ front end swap. And the question is "what is the smart, easiest the conversion- SP1 upper, CBR 954 lower, and the forks off the RC-51?
What CBR(three spoke) Front wheel, wheel spacers are needed ton complete the conversion?
Is this a correct gathering of parts, to complete the front end swap?
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:28 AM
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Easiest, any CBR fork combined with either a complete 929/954 triple or a CBR 1000RR fork... The only challenge (price wize mostly) is to get clip-ons...

RC parts are a bit more rare and expensive but the forks are a bit longer, so if you use them the flat triples they are combined with works, making clip-ons a bit easier/cheaper...

CBR wheels from all of them (929/954/1000RR) mix and match in terms of bearings/axle roto mounts and what not, so use the correct rotors and it works with a CBR fork... The RC fork uses a 22 mm front axle instead of the 25 mm on the CBR's so you need to swap the bearings/seals and such to RC parts in the above wheels, but other than that just pick one and it works...
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:58 AM
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A bit old school at this point, but it might be easier to find cheap older CBR parts:

http://www.vtwo.demon.co.uk/firestorm/firestorm.htm

Nice pictures on this thread, stolen from Lazn's sig:

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...&postcount=130
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Easiest, any CBR fork combined with either a complete 929/954 triple or a CBR 1000RR fork... The only challenge (price wize mostly) is to get clip-ons...

RC parts are a bit more rare and expensive but the forks are a bit longer, so if you use them the flat triples they are combined with works, making clip-ons a bit easier/cheaper...

CBR wheels from all of them (929/954/1000RR) mix and match in terms of bearings/axle roto mounts and what not, so use the correct rotors and it works with a CBR fork... The RC fork uses a 22 mm front axle instead of the 25 mm on the CBR's so you need to swap the bearings/seals and such to RC parts in the above wheels, but other than that just pick one and it works...
To add to this, RC51 wheels are getting rather hard to find,
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
To add to this, RC51 wheels are getting rather hard to find,
Especially the fronts it seems, since people stuff them up more frequently... I should know, I have been looking at finding one for the front enf wrecked SP2 I picked up a few months ago...

At the moment it seems more likely that I will slap a full CBR 1000RR fork on there instead, including the wheel... It's considerably cheaper, and should perform equally once sorted...
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:17 AM
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Very true, I spent 4-5 months hunting down the SP2 front wheel that I am using. Then when you do find one, the asking price is usually quite outrageous due to the rarity. For this reason alone, I would say stay away from the RC51 stuff unless you get a truly complete front end.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:34 PM
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Gentlemen, I do appreciate the responce of information. An to be an ***@@@e- I own three complete RC-51 front end(forks, upper, lower, clip-ons, front fenders, and the wheels) besides the two complete bikes.. Yet reading - the majority seem to use the SP1 triple clamps.. Is there less modification to the SP1 triples?
I do have two SP1 triples..
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:55 PM
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Trade for an engine maybe?
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:58 PM
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AFAIK the majority does use 929/954 triples... The modification needed to both are the same, you need to file the steering stops to allow full lock...

The difference between the two is the gullwing being on the lower triple in the SP1's and tha mean you will need to widen the fairing to get them to work, with the 929/954's you don't need to do this... Plus the change in the tóp triple might affect the choiche of clip-ons...
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:18 PM
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Sooooo> I guess asking, tweety. Would you know the inside diameter of the 929/954 triple. In asking- to possible use a set of RC51 forks. Seems to make the conversion complicated (wheels, spacers, front fender)
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:24 PM
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If you mean using a 929/954 triple and the rest of the fork RC parts? Yes, that's a direct bolt up... That includes the wheel spacers since the spacing is the same... About the only thing you'd need apart from that would be some higher clip-ons...

BTW the upper triple is 50 mm and the lower either 52 or 53 mm, all the same as the RC...
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 1971allchaos View Post
Gentlemen, I do appreciate the responce of information. An to be an ***@@@e- I own three complete RC-51 front end(forks, upper, lower, clip-ons, front fenders, and the wheels) besides the two complete bikes.. Yet reading - the majority seem to use the SP1 triple clamps.. Is there less modification to the SP1 triples?
I do have two SP1 triples..
As far as I remember the SP2 has a thicker stem which makes it unusable in a SH. I do know that a SP1 triple will drop right in, just remember to use SP1 bearings and you will be good to go.

Setting up the steering stops with an SP1 triple is kind of a bitch but can be done.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:53 PM
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I would get stock clipons versus aftermarket. The stockers have about a 1" rise to them to help clear the fairing. Aftermarket basically goes straight out and rubs the fairings approaching full lock on the bikes they're designed for as I found on the CBR1000. PITA but there are no turns on the track that are that tight luckily.
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hotbrakes View Post
I would get stock clipons versus aftermarket. The stockers have about a 1" rise to them to help clear the fairing. Aftermarket basically goes straight out and rubs the fairings approaching full lock on the bikes they're designed for as I found on the CBR1000. PITA but there are no turns on the track that are that tight luckily.
I'm not sure what clip-ons specifically you are defering too, but no stock clip-ons will fit on a VTR with a CBR gullwing, not from the RC/SP1 or the CBR's... I'm not 100% sure if the RC/SP1 top triple might possibly allow the taller one's like the CBR 929's but the rest definetly won't work, the RC/SP1 ones sit about level with the bodywork on the VTR...

It's been kind of a general consensus that the clip-ons needs to be either about 2-3" high or adjustable to work...
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:36 PM
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[quote=8541Hawk;280662]As far as I remember the SP2 has a thicker stem which makes it unusable in a SH. I do know that a SP1 triple will drop right in, just remember to use SP1 bearings and you will be good to go.

I would concur, that the SP2 triple and steering stem is thicker.. Thank you all for your input from the group, thanks Tweety for clarification on the internal diameter of the triples.

To ask the opinions of the group on this set-up on 2000 S-Hawk is the project bike.
As suggested- 2005 RC-51 forks, front wheel, rotors and brakes, The SP1 lower triple off 2000, and i have a brand new LSL street fighter upper triple clamp, that has the 2" bar clamps. Possible to safe the upper fairings or ??
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:38 PM
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Tweety -WTH is "AFAIK the majority" ??? ha ha
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:46 PM
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As Far As I Know...

The setup with the bar clamp and SP1 triple tree should at least be worth a try, can't say for sure that it will clear, but chances are good... A bit of it's up to what bar you use... Will need some discrete trimming fot the bottom triple though...
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:52 PM
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That is true about the trimming and I completely forgot about it. It is pretty minor and only on the small parts that bolt to the inside of the fairing but there is a bit of interference.
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:08 PM
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8541Hawk- Really like your fab'd brackets for the radiators on you hawk, very nice..
Setting up the steering stops with an SP1 triple is kind of a bitch but can be done, what exactly was difficult about the steering stops on the SP1 triples ? have already got the lower triple to the work bench..-
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:33 PM
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Well after you trim them down low enough to get them to clear the fairing stay they are too short to line up with the stops on the frame. So you need to drill and tap some angled holes (as the steering stops are also too far forward) to get it to work.

The other option, if you have access to a mill would be to remove the stops completely and mill a flat in the clamp and install a custom stop.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:30 AM
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I've been reading a lot of front end swap threads trying to gather information. Can someone explain to me what the "Gullwing" triple clamps are, what they come one, and why or why not to use them? thanks
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 98VTRrider View Post
I've been reading a lot of front end swap threads trying to gather information. Can someone explain to me what the "Gullwing" triple clamps are, what they come one, and why or why not to use them? thanks
The only explanation I'll give is to look at an image of one and think of the image of a seagulls wings...

BTW if you have actually read and researched and you have come to the conclusion not to use gullwinged triples, you should probably read some more... You have obviously missed a few basics... Sorry, but now we are getting to the point where this is pure repetition once again, and then I'm out...

Last edited by Tweety; 09-10-2010 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:05 AM
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I was just looking for a simple definition...sorry i'm fairly new to the entire "streetbike" world, so there is a lot of terminology i'm trying to learn...

So a "gullwing" clamp is one where the forks are offset/forward of the stem? I thought it was when the top of the clamp surface raises towards the outside. sorry for being so ignorant...i've searched here and google for just what a gullwing triple clamp is and didn't find any definition...
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:26 AM
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No, gullwing has nothing to do with the offset, all triples have that to some degree...

See, you can still sucker me in with intelligent questions...

You where on the right track with the stepped design in "height"... I think it's fairly unusal for the edges to be raised, normally the clamps at the edges drops down to hold a shorter fork... Just like on the CBR's...

The RC forks are longer, and here the top triple are flat, the lower is stepped or "gullwing"... The reason is probably to increase the distance between the clamping points and make the fork more stable...

And that's why you can mix and match a bit to get the result you want... But keep in mind that a short CBR fork only works with a gullwinged upper, otherwise it becomes too short...
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 1971allchaos View Post
8541Hawk- Really like your fab'd brackets for the radiators on you hawk, very nice..
Setting up the steering stops with an SP1 triple is kind of a bitch but can be done, what exactly was difficult about the steering stops on the SP1 triples ? have already got the lower triple to the work bench..-

The other thing to add to this is that the 954 lower does make for a much cleaner installation. The only reason I changed mine is that I wanted a bit more ground clearance.

On my set up with the RC forks and the 954 triple I ended up with the same geometry as with my stock set up. That would be with the stock forks pulled 10mm up in the triples.

While this does work well, I do tend to drag the header in right hand turns with this set up. So I wanted to get the front end up and needed the RC triple to pull the forks down 10mm.

So in addition to the steering stop issues and the need to trim the fairing, I also need to either find out if I can retrofit a ride height adjuster to my rear shock or make a new upper shock mount to get the geometry back to where I want it.

The fact that I didn't get the rear completely sorted before I started riding it is one of the contributing factors of why my bike ended up in the ditch. But that is a another story. The lesson here is you do need to take some time to sort the bike after changing the front end.

So which lower you choose (with the RC forks) has a lot to do with what you are trying to accomplish and your riding style. If you have your stock forks pulled up 10mm in the triples and have no issues and like how things work, then run the 954 lower, as it is just easier to use. If you need to have the front end set up like stock, then you need to run the RC lower and do all the extra work needed to make it fit.

Also all this is just for setting up RC51 forks. This information has no real bearing on CBR forks as the length and mounting points on the forks are different.
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