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Pilot Power 2CT Confidence

Old 10-03-2010, 08:13 PM
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Pilot Power 2CT Confidence

Need some input from you guys running the Pilot Power's. These are my first non-Dunlap tire and the other day while riding the rear end got squirrly when down shifting. Nothing major but made me have to alter my driving. I know the center compound is not as sticky but it kinda made me nervous as I'm not used to it.

Before I go throw these tires into a corner I wanted to know how well they do when dragging a knee. Is that side compound as sticky as they say it is? Going to Deal's Gap this weekend and haven't had any time in the corners with them yet.

Thanks
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:19 PM
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How many miles do you have on them? Scrub those puppies in!
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:43 PM
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What Dunlop tires have you been running? The 2CTs are as good as any Dunlops I'm familiar with.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:00 AM
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im no knee draggin expert, but i do have 2ct's, im not really sure if its just me getting comfy on the hawk, but they feel super planted in the turns, if i do ham-fist a downshift it'll step out, i got to try tho.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:17 AM
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the 2CTs are sticky tires unless they are old, baked in the sun in some warehouse, or otherwise altered for the worse. you can look on the side wall for the manufacture date. Lower the pressure on the rear to 32psi cold, front 30.
Get them warmed up a little, get yourself on twisty road with some nice open curves that you can see through and go back and forth increasing your lean till you start to feel some slippage and by then you should know that you're about the max for what is safe on the roads. You can scrub them in in a parking lot if you need to, but not as much fun.
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:03 AM
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Nathan is right. I run 32 in both when at the track. they hold well at novice and intermediate levels.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:32 AM
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i would rather the 2cts anyday than any dunlop ,, i put a set on a bike last year because they were cheap (d207`s) and they were rubbish , terrible caricteristics compared with the 2ct in my opinion ,


(dont even get me started on them in the wet )
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by motokraft View Post
i would rather the 2cts anyday than any dunlop ,, i put a set on a bike last year because they were cheap (d207`s) and they were rubbish , terrible caricteristics compared with the 2ct in my opinion ,


(dont even get me started on them in the wet )
They were cheap because they were really old....... Dunlop stopped making 207's in the size for these bikes many years ago. In fact they are on the third generation of tire since then (208 -Qualifier - Q2) What was the date code on them? I'm pretty sure a 10 year old set of Michelin tires would be ***** also.

New and fresh they worked really well.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
They were cheap because they were really old....... Dunlop stopped making 207's in the size for these bikes many years ago. In fact they are on the third generation of tire since then (208 -Qualifier - Q2) What was the date code on them? I'm pretty sure a 10 year old set of Michelin tires would be ***** also.

New and fresh they worked really well.
im over in europe , its a different market , even the same tyres may be of different material , and i agree a better more modern tyre like the qualifier would be a better example but ill never know because ill never be using dunlops again , 2cts are a great all round tyre for me , at the same token it could have been 208`s . but the fact remains they were **** , no feel , and no feel at all in the wet


they wernt 10 y o they were new and fresh
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:43 AM
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Well I was just responding to what you posted. Maybe you got the numbers wrong but 207s haven't been around for a long time. Yes you can still get them as a OEM replacement tire but it is in a 18" rear and a 17" 65 series front, neither of which fit this bike.

I am also very aware of the different manufacturing plants that Dunlop uses. In fact the English 207s were the ones where the front worked better mounted backwards.

The 208s were also dropped more than a few years ago. So all that I can say is that if you were running a "number" series Dunlop, they were old, unless they were 211 GP-As or 616s.

It is true that everyone likes something different but in the 13yrs I've had my SH I've only run Dunlops (204s-220s-207s-208s-Qualifiers-Q2s) and while I didn't like a couple of them, mainly the 220s & 208s (well the 204s were pure garbage but that is a different story), I have never had a grip or feedback issue even in the pissing down rain, except for the 204s which didn't like water at all .

Then again if everyone liked the same thing, there would be a shortage of it.......
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:49 AM
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It's a real shame that people think the Qualifier and the Q2's share any similarities with the 207/208's. Those damn 208's weren't worth a damn but the Qualifier and the Q2's are outstanding tires. For the money, forget Michelins, they cost way too much for what you get.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:48 AM
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If these are new tires, and especially if the previous tires were "flattened" out like mine usually get, then the combination of a new round tire (relatively less contact patch) that's also still getting scrubbed in, might have been more slippery than what you had with the old tire. I am running power pures, and I squealed the tire down-shifting a few times, even though that tire's middle compound isn't super hard. But I never had any issues in turns.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
Well I was just responding to what you posted. Maybe you got the numbers wrong but 207s haven't been around for a long time. Yes you can still get them as a OEM replacement tire but it is in a 18" rear and a 17" 65 series front, neither of which fit this bike.

I am also very aware of the different manufacturing plants that Dunlop uses. In fact the English 207s were the ones where the front worked better mounted backwards.

The 208s were also dropped more than a few years ago. So all that I can say is that if you were running a "number" series Dunlop, they were old, unless they were 211 GP-As or 616s.

It is true that everyone likes something different but in the 13yrs I've had my SH I've only run Dunlops (204s-220s-207s-208s-Qualifiers-Q2s) and while I didn't like a couple of them, mainly the 220s & 208s (well the 204s were pure garbage but that is a different story), I have never had a grip or feedback issue even in the pissing down rain, except for the 204s which didn't like water at all .

Then again if everyone liked the same thing, there would be a shortage of it.......
yep its deffo a personnel thing , thats my experience , different strokes .. etc . ill have to take your word on fitting the front backwards tho , i wont be testing that one
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:22 PM
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The D204's doesn't like being ridden, period... And I disliked them completely... But other than those, the Dunlops I have tried was fine...

However, the PP 2CT's need scrubbing in, and are only fun if you have the right pressure... But with that done, they are definetly more confidence inspiring than any Dunlop with exception for the Q2's...
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jaypo View Post
Need some input from you guys running the Pilot Power's. These are my first non-Dunlap tire and the other day while riding the rear end got squirrly when down shifting. Nothing major but made me have to alter my driving. I know the center compound is not as sticky but it kinda made me nervous as I'm not used to it.

Before I go throw these tires into a corner I wanted to know how well they do when dragging a knee. Is that side compound as sticky as they say it is? Going to Deal's Gap this weekend and haven't had any time in the corners with them yet.

Thanks
These tires have more grip than you can possibly use on the street. Its all in your head.

The rear end getting squirrley is probably due to poor rev matching technique. This bike has a **** ton of engine braking.

FWIW your typical pp2ct can easily, run sub 2:30 - 3:00 at ThiunderHill.

Hell, some people get 2:15 with sport touring tires.

Last edited by Karbon; 10-04-2010 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 10-04-2010, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Karbon View Post
These tires have more grip than you can possibly use on the street. Its all in your head.

The rear end getting squirrley is probably due to poor rev matching technique. This bike has a **** ton of engine braking.
Agreed...

Originally Posted by jaypo View Post
Need some input from you guys running the Pilot Power's. These are my first non-Dunlap tire and the other day while riding the rear end got squirrly when down shifting. Nothing major but made me have to alter my driving. I know the center compound is not as sticky but it kinda made me nervous as I'm not used to it.

Before I go throw these tires into a corner I wanted to know how well they do when dragging a knee. Is that side compound as sticky as they say it is? Going to Deal's Gap this weekend and haven't had any time in the corners with them yet.

Thanks
Well... What Dunlops have you been running? Qualifiers or Q2's? if so they have about the same grip as the PP 2CT's... If you have anything else as your benchmark the these beat them on pure grip and feel... The "non-sticky" center compound is probably stickier than most other sport tires... The edges are even stickier... Set them up correct and you will never reach their limits on the street...
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Karbon View Post
These tires have more grip than you can possibly use on the street. Its all in your head.

The rear end getting squirrley is probably due to poor rev matching technique. This bike has a **** ton of engine braking.
+2
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Karbon View Post
These tires have more grip than you can possibly use on the street. Its all in your head.

The rear end getting squirrley is probably due to poor rev matching technique. This bike has a **** ton of engine braking.
I'm not much for riding in the wet and always ran Qualifiers. They stuck great for my riding and had good response in the bends. I felt like I could trust their response and knew where the line was.

I haven't really scrubbed these 2CT's in yet but have a ride on Wed to work them out and get a buddy who wrecked recently back into some corners for technique training. I'll take the advice on the pressures and check that before my ride (they should be at 32 but worth checking). Nice to hear the feedback and that others have had good response.

The bike does have a **** ton of engine breaking and I'm used to matching rpm to wheel speed. The Dunlaps just seemed to stick more when downshifting, even when cold. It was just some fresh tires which got me asking the question in the back of my mind of how much can I trust these ("It's all in your head").

Thanks for all the feedback. Looking forward to the ride Wednesday to sort them out. 3 more days till the Dragon...
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:16 PM
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All you have to do to scrub in new modern tires is to break out the orbital sander with some 80 grit to rough it up. Whatever mold release compound they use or used to use isn't too much of concern, and isn't as slick as you think it its.

FWIW, from what I gather based on tire profile, your typical pp2ct tire will have a tendency to tip-in/fall into the turns quickly, but is rather stable once leaned in. Mid lean line corrections should be easy enough to make. Once again you might just be getting used to the new profile.

Alternately, you might want to also check re adjust your suspension settings, and get your geometry set to your riding style. Remember, steering and road-holding componentry is a system; changing one factor in this system affects another.

good luck.
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Old 10-05-2010, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jaypo View Post
I'm not much for riding in the wet and always ran Qualifiers. They stuck great for my riding and had good response in the bends. I felt like I could trust their response and knew where the line was.

I haven't really scrubbed these 2CT's in yet but have a ride on Wed to work them out and get a buddy who wrecked recently back into some corners for technique training. I'll take the advice on the pressures and check that before my ride (they should be at 32 but worth checking). Nice to hear the feedback and that others have had good response.

The bike does have a **** ton of engine breaking and I'm used to matching rpm to wheel speed. The Dunlaps just seemed to stick more when downshifting, even when cold. It was just some fresh tires which got me asking the question in the back of my mind of how much can I trust these ("It's all in your head").

Thanks for all the feedback. Looking forward to the ride Wednesday to sort them out. 3 more days till the Dragon...
scrubbing in is not really a lengthy process and can be accomplished on two turns on: a right and a left. In other words, it's more of a matter of scrubbing in your perceptions of how the tires are gripping. With a new set of tires, jump on a twisty road your familiar with and do your deal to get the tires warmed. Turn around if there are some nice wide open turns with good surface and neutral or positive camber and increase your lean and speed as you feel confidence in your new tires. Go back and forth because this linked repetition will allow you to focus on increasing lean and speed faster than on different turns because you are minimizing the variables. When your tires start slipping, shuddering, sliding or whatever descriptors you want to use, you are reaching the limits of safety for street riding, i.e., unless you're comfortable with controlled sliding supermoto style in which case disregard this entire post. So you see that slipping and sliding is somewhat normal and typically predictable(not always.... and I know this for sure haha), and if you stop immediately and look at closely at your tires, you may be able to see the rubber scrubbing a bit(kinda like an eraser). I like the tire eraser analogy because it helps me to understand how the rubber can move across a surface yet still have predictable grip.

Of course your tires are an integral part of your bike's suspension and that's what great about lower pressures and bump absorption/contact patch, but your suspension should be set up in terms of weight-matched springs and sag for adequate handling on twisty roads.
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:58 AM
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Just got back from the ride and was able to get some time in the corners. They seemed quicker to turn in and held well. I had a couple times they stepped out but nothing I wasn't used to. Good post on scrubbing them in. I actually have such a road and ran it five times today to get a good feel and push them to the road limits I knew.
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:06 PM
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did you run over tarsnakes or slippery stuff? Sometimes a stepping-out feeling can be caused by poor or unbalanced suspension setup.

I found when i have too little rebound damping in the shock the *** end feels like its kicking out.
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Old 10-06-2010, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jaypo View Post
Just got back from the ride and was able to get some time in the corners. They seemed quicker to turn in and held well. I had a couple times they stepped out but nothing I wasn't used to. Good post on scrubbing them in. I actually have such a road and ran it five times today to get a good feel and push them to the road limits I knew.
great! People question why run back and forth on a road or a specific piece of it, it's boring. Couldn't be any worse than running around a track. Run the same roads and you will learn more. My theory is that if you don't learn to ride one road well, how can you expect to do a good job riding roads you don't even know? Sometimes there is one or two turns that I don't feel good about so I do reps until I learn it.
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Old 10-06-2010, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Karbon View Post
did you run over tarsnakes or slippery stuff? Sometimes a stepping-out feeling can be caused by poor or unbalanced suspension setup.

I found when i have too little rebound damping in the shock the *** end feels like its kicking out.
definitely true. Running lower rear tire pressure can band aid that a bit, but you wanna have both set up right for absorbing irregularities. I like to set rebound on the light side so i back it all the way off and keep adjusting till I can feel/see resistance when I push firmly down on the seat and watch it rebound. But that's a personal preference.
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