No cold start without a jump. No hot start when hot until cool down a bit...
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
From: Nh
No cold start without a jump. No hot start when hot until cool down a bit...
I've had this Gremlin for a few years now. She will not start when cold without a jump from my truck or a battery booster. Cranks over just fine and has brand new 220cca batter but no fire. Also has a new mosfet r/r. She fires up just fine with the Boost from the jump. Also when the bike is hot it will not start right up it wants to cool down before it will start. And when I do attempt to start it when it is hot kills the battery rather quickly, which again does not happen after it has had a chance to cool down a bit. I got a starter rebuild kit to try next. Like I said I've had this issue for 3 years now and it all started after I brought it to a shop and had new Rings put in it and a new front cylinder head, was kind of a rebuild you could say. This issue was a pain in the rear because I can't just hop on it and go when I would like it to. I have two other bikes with no issues and I hate seeing my hawk in the back of my shop with such an annoying problem. Please help!
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,066
From: NYC
How old is the battery? Even if pretty new it sounds suspect. Does it almost start when hot or just not want to fire at all. That could be a sidestand switch that grounds out when hot.
I will bet $5 a different battery would solve it. Measure voltage across the battery when off then when running.
I will bet $5 a different battery would solve it. Measure voltage across the battery when off then when running.
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,806
From: Atlanta, GA
How old is the battery? Even if pretty new it sounds suspect. Does it almost start when hot or just not want to fire at all. That could be a sidestand switch that grounds out when hot.
I will bet $5 a different battery would solve it. Measure voltage across the battery when off then when running.
I will bet $5 a different battery would solve it. Measure voltage across the battery when off then when running.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,066
From: NYC
Master mechanic rule #37. A replacement new part may still be the failure point. Either faulty or failed due to same issue that caused the last part to fail.
You can never rule out a component as the problem even if new.
Same $5 on the battery. New or not. Or at least a connection to it.
You can never rule out a component as the problem even if new.
Same $5 on the battery. New or not. Or at least a connection to it.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,066
From: NYC
Besides, no start wo a jump kinda says it all. A solid battery would not need help.
Tons of batteries sit forever before sold so only get a surface charge on the plates, they read good voltage but fail under load.
Tons of batteries sit forever before sold so only get a surface charge on the plates, they read good voltage but fail under load.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
From: Nh
How old is the battery? Even if pretty new it sounds suspect. Does it almost start when hot or just not want to fire at all. That could be a sidestand switch that grounds out when hot.
I will bet $5 a different battery would solve it. Measure voltage across the battery when off then when running.
I will bet $5 a different battery would solve it. Measure voltage across the battery when off then when running.
Not starting when cold is what really gets me because I can't just fire it up and go, it's a ridiculous process.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
From: Nh
The connection to my starter looks nothing like that it was what I would consider almost perfect under the boot. As a matter of fact I just took it off to clean the inside of the starter and replace brushes seals and bearings. And again I must say this battery is brand new 2 months ago and lives on a high-quality maintainer. I have other bikes that I've tried switching the batteries out of thinking that that was the possibility and same problem. I have even taken this battery out of my SH and put it in my cbr1000 and everything is happy so I've eliminated the possibility of it solely being the battery.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
From: Nh
How old is the battery? Even if pretty new it sounds suspect. Does it almost start when hot or just not want to fire at all. That could be a sidestand switch that grounds out when hot.
I will bet $5 a different battery would solve it. Measure voltage across the battery when off then when running.
I will bet $5 a different battery would solve it. Measure voltage across the battery when off then when running.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
From: Nh
Every little bit helps I just need more input.
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 277
From: Champaign, IL
Might I suggest you check resistance in both the (-) and (+) cables. I have had instances such as yours presented, and found that underneath the cable sheathing is nothing but green dusty stuff that used to be copper.
Resistance is futile...
Resistance is futile...
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,066
From: NYC
You could then start thinking about the ignition coils. They & the connections. I have had coils that would work fine cold but over heat and falter terribly. They are easy to swap out to test. See if one cylinder gets hotter than the other to see which coil may be failing.
I agree with the resistance checking. Undue resistance would sap the batteries strength. If you haven't swapped the coils think about getting some from Erik Marquez on here since he sells upgrade kits cheap but are of good quality coil on cap upgrades.
Finally (for now) contemplate if its a heat issue or maybe it runs til warm & causes vapor lock in the tank. Then the "cool down" allows air back in the tank. I have had vapor lock where I had to take out the key while rolling in traffic, open the tank then refire the bike.
You gotta think of all angles.
I agree with the resistance checking. Undue resistance would sap the batteries strength. If you haven't swapped the coils think about getting some from Erik Marquez on here since he sells upgrade kits cheap but are of good quality coil on cap upgrades.
Finally (for now) contemplate if its a heat issue or maybe it runs til warm & causes vapor lock in the tank. Then the "cool down" allows air back in the tank. I have had vapor lock where I had to take out the key while rolling in traffic, open the tank then refire the bike.
You gotta think of all angles.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
From: Nh
You could then start thinking about the ignition coils. They & the connections. I have had coils that would work fine cold but over heat and falter terribly. They are easy to swap out to test. See if one cylinder gets hotter than the other to see which coil may be failing.
I agree with the resistance checking. Undue resistance would sap the batteries strength. If you haven't swapped the coils think about getting some from Erik Marquez on here since he sells upgrade kits cheap but are of good quality coil on cap upgrades.
Finally (for now) contemplate if its a heat issue or maybe it runs til warm & causes vapor lock in the tank. Then the "cool down" allows air back in the tank. I have had vapor lock where I had to take out the key while rolling in traffic, open the tank then refire the bike.
You gotta think of all angles.
I agree with the resistance checking. Undue resistance would sap the batteries strength. If you haven't swapped the coils think about getting some from Erik Marquez on here since he sells upgrade kits cheap but are of good quality coil on cap upgrades.
Finally (for now) contemplate if its a heat issue or maybe it runs til warm & causes vapor lock in the tank. Then the "cool down" allows air back in the tank. I have had vapor lock where I had to take out the key while rolling in traffic, open the tank then refire the bike.
You gotta think of all angles.
This will be solved!
Thank you for the great ideas!
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,066
From: NYC
Yeah vapor lock is just a venting issue. It would act like a symptom of the bike being warmed up but really it just cannot get fuel from the tank. At that point yeah it would run terrible since the carbs run out of gas at different times due to position. So for that even a petcock could be the issue.
On many bikes ive worked on that people bring me. Almost ALL needed me to drain the gas tank to dry and rinse gunk out before doing any other fix since it had dirt or water in the tank. I always install inline fuel filters to prevent future gunk problems.
On many bikes ive worked on that people bring me. Almost ALL needed me to drain the gas tank to dry and rinse gunk out before doing any other fix since it had dirt or water in the tank. I always install inline fuel filters to prevent future gunk problems.
Last edited by smokinjoe73; Sep 25, 2019 at 03:12 PM.
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MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
From: Nh
I soldered them in and I created a plug to seal them into the head because otherwise they do not stay down all the way on their own. And I have not tested them since I put them in 3 years ago. The problem stated was present before that the coil swap.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
From: Nh
Yeah vapor lock is just a venting issue. It would act like a symptom of the bike being warmed up but really it just cannot get fuel from the tank. At that point yeah it would run terrible since the carbs run out of gas at different times due to position. So for that even a petcock could be the issue.
On many bikes ive worked on that people bring me. Almost ALL needed me to drain the gas tank to dry and rinse gunk out before doing any other fix since it had dirt or water in the tank. I always install inline fuel filters to prevent future gunk problems.
On many bikes ive worked on that people bring me. Almost ALL needed me to drain the gas tank to dry and rinse gunk out before doing any other fix since it had dirt or water in the tank. I always install inline fuel filters to prevent future gunk problems.
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