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electrical gremlin

Old 09-22-2010, 04:46 AM
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electrical gremlin

ok so this is twice now ive had an issue with this thing. i think its the battery so im gonna swap it out this week before my track day. but i wouldnt mind some opinions on it. a little history, the battery was replaced less than a year ago and the regulator had died and had done a number on the battery. my buddy was able to revive it and shes able to hold a load but not 100%. this is why im thinking a cell may be dieing in the battery.

a month or so ago i went to visit a buddy of mine, it was warm out, i was riding her fairly hard. got to his place, shut it off, talked for 5 minutes and went to start tyhe bike and put it into the garage because we were taking his car somewhere. bike turned over a few times and nothing, tried it again, turned over again and then the turning over got slower. tried again and it was turning over slower again as if the battery had no charge. so we pushed it into the garage and went to get his booster pack from his parents place, came back 20 or so minutes later, i decided to try it again, she fired up no problem. barely cranked, just shot to life. not too sure why she was just cranking before hand and wouldnt start, but she wasnt starting. and it was fine after that.

fast forward to this past sunday. it was cold out, if i had to guess probably around 10 degrees, so without doing the conversion id say around 44 degrees for my friends to the south. just riding along at a city pace, i turn the throttle and theres nothing. i look down, lights are on, tach is reading 0. so i try to bump her but the back tire drags, not sure what gear i was in, maybe third, hit the start button and shes just cranking. so i pull her over and try to start, and again, shes just turning over and getting weaker until eventually it barely cranked the motor. gave it ten or so minutes but this time i guess the battery didnt revive enough to start it. i remember a mechanic friend saying if your battery is dead and you turn the key forward or the lights on or something and then off and wait a bit itll give the battery a little shock and might give you enough juice to start once, something along those lines anyway.

so anyways, bike wont start, we toss the guy im riding with on as hes small and give her a bump start, fires up, runs, idles, no issues. rode out the rest of the night with 3 or 4 stops and had no problems with it at all.

no idea why it died and wouldnt start. im guessing the battery is at blame for the none starting but as for it dieing, maybe just a random v twin stall as it did it last year for me as well a few times while riding.

so, thoughts? why wouldnt it start back up? maybe not enough juice in the battery to start the bike? i checked the voltage the morning after and it was at about 13.4-13.6 cant remember the exact number but mid 13's with the bike off. havent checked it running yet.
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:34 AM
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I would check all the connections then perhaps check out the starter motor then replace the battery.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:29 AM
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I would run a load check on the battery, with the engine off first. then check the output of the VR with engine running. Battery voltage sounds about right, you need to check it after a load/start. Autozone has a tester that they can bring out to your bike.
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Old 09-22-2010, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by uchi View Post
so, thoughts? ... i checked the voltage the morning after and it was at about 13.4-13.6 cant remember the exact number but mid 13's with the bike off. havent checked it running yet.
My initial thought is that mid 13s sounds a bit high for a battery that sat overnight. Might that be because its being overcharged due to a bad RR?
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:08 PM
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from what i remember reading it should be over mid 13's when running right. im running an hid in the bike which i know has less of a draw, im wondering if the lesser draw from the hid could be causing an issue on a system thats designed to have more draw from the halogen bulb. ill have to visit one of the local shops and see if they ahve a tester they can use on it. thanks for the help
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevebis1 View Post
My initial thought is that mid 13s sounds a bit high for a battery that sat overnight. Might that be because its being overcharged due to a bad RR?
+1

The battery has 2.2v per cell. 2.2 x 6 = 13.2, but a battery will rarely read that high. Charging voltage should be 13.5v to 15.0v, as a rule of thumb.

Are you running an OEM type gel battery or liquid electrolyte? Check electrolyte level if that type. Add only distilled water, if it's low, and don't overfill.

Check grounds, including starter mounting bolts.

Clean battery terminals.
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:56 PM
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ill go through all of that this week, thanks for the tips. im using the stock style battery. i may just yank it and put it into my quad and put the brand new quad battery into the bike just to be safe and clean the terminals while im in there.
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by uchi View Post
a little history, the battery was replaced less than a year ago and the regulator had died and had done a number on the battery. my buddy was able to revive it and shes able to hold a load but not 100%. this is why im thinking a cell may be dieing in the battery.
Well after reading this part I would say that yes the battery is on the way out. Anytime you run a battery all the way down, it does cause some damage. The fact that the battery wasn't 100% is evidence of the damage.

So I would double check the charging voltage just to be safe but then it would be time for a new battery (and a tender if you don't already have one)
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:46 PM
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i keep the tender on all my toys all the time. ill try the new battery i have in my quad and see if it does the same thing still. damn things arent cheap either, lol. someone had said it may be something in the stator thats causing it which might mean time for a new stator, something about controlling spark or coil or something like that, damned if i can remember. ill go easy and swap the battery first. thanks again
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:34 PM
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After you install the known good battery, check charging voltage. A weak battery can make the charging system look bad. The battery should be able to pass a load test, and read at least 12.5v at rest.

Charging voltage, engine running, should be at least 13.5v and not more than 15.5v. If it's over 15.5, at any rpm, the R/R is bad. If it's under 13.5 it could be the stator. But check the manual for additional tests before replacing the stator.

In addition, if your battery was reading over 13 volts, your stator is not bad. A bad stator will cause undercharging, not overcharging...that would be the R/R. But again, you need to check and clean all grounds.

Last edited by VTRsurfer; 09-23-2010 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:48 PM
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i put an R1 R/R on my bike... i soldered the wires directly but could easily unsolder everything ( or just cut the wires so you can see what goes where ) if it looks like yours is going bad.

and since i'm pulling my bike apart you could have it for the shipping cost.

tim
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:26 AM
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trinc ill take you up on that offer, let me know how much you want to ship it to canada, thorold ontario L2V1E1 please. ill take it just incase mine is starting to die so that i have a spare

vtr surfer, what rpm should i check it at? 3500 or so and compare it to idle? is that how it works? its too early and my mind isnt working right just yet.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:28 AM
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uchi, Anywhere from idle on up, it should put out at least 13.5v and not more than 15.5v.

If you were doing a charging amps test, that requires a certain rpm (2500rpm for cars), and a carbon pile load tester. I wouldn't let the parts store do a load test on the charging system on a motorcycle, since too much applied load could fry something.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:33 AM
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Ok perfect ill check tonite. Thank you
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:43 AM
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevebis1 View Post
maybe its just me but it brings me back to this thread.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:51 PM
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sorry screwed up the link - here it is

http://www.electrosport.com/technica...ng-diagram.pdf
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:26 AM
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oh thats nice i like it, thanks steve. ill see if i can muster up the energy to play with that today
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