New owner; used SH; engine quit
Thread Starter
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Squid
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 74
From: 28° 4' 26" N / 82° 28' 18" W
New owner; used SH; engine quit
Hi all,
New member here. Been a rider for more than 25 years, but have limited motorcycle mechanical knowledge and skill.
Just bought a used '05 SuperHawk with 9000 miles yesterday.
The engine quit on the ride home. Here are the relevant details:
(Drove an hour from home with girlfriend to pick up bike.)
Full tank of gas on delivery.
Started engine cold with choke - fired up well without issue.
Drove 4 miles in town. Stopped for 20 minute lunch.
Started engine warm without choke - fired up well without issue.
Drove 30 miles on highway at 70mph with rpms pinned at 5K. Very smooth powerband and ran through gears without any hiccups. Spent those 30 minutes getting a good feel for the bike and checking my gauges every minute or so.
(Girlfriend following behind in car.)
All of a sudden, engine quit at 70mph! Rpm's just dropped and oil light came on. Pulled safely to breakdown lane and began to assess:
Read manual about oil light and checked oil. Oil level window showed oil was below minimum.
Got quart of oil, added it and tried to restart - no go.
Tried "flooded engine" procedure - no go.
Checked the kill switch to see if I had hit that by accident - I've done that before!
Walked bike a mile to truck stop and began to assess further:
Called local Honda service and asked if there was a "reset" procedure of some sort; was told no, it should fire right up after adding oil. Still, I disconnected battery terminal for a few minutes and tried again - no go.
Truck mechanics were kind, but not very helpful with their limited bike knowledge, and I didn't want to break down the bike there. So, friend came and we trailered bike home.
Now I have a new (used) bike at home that won't go!
BTW: Previous owner was no help. Said it drove fine when he rode it a couple of weeks ago, so he claimed I must have done something to it!
When I try to start the bike, the lights and gauges come on and it turns over, but it just doesn't fire up. Also, I can feel mild pressure and smell a little exhaust gas coming from the tail pipe when I try to start the bike.
Tried again this morning - no go.
Any ideas before I trailer it to the Honda service?
Thanks in advance.
New member here. Been a rider for more than 25 years, but have limited motorcycle mechanical knowledge and skill.
Just bought a used '05 SuperHawk with 9000 miles yesterday.
The engine quit on the ride home. Here are the relevant details:
(Drove an hour from home with girlfriend to pick up bike.)
Full tank of gas on delivery.
Started engine cold with choke - fired up well without issue.
Drove 4 miles in town. Stopped for 20 minute lunch.
Started engine warm without choke - fired up well without issue.
Drove 30 miles on highway at 70mph with rpms pinned at 5K. Very smooth powerband and ran through gears without any hiccups. Spent those 30 minutes getting a good feel for the bike and checking my gauges every minute or so.
(Girlfriend following behind in car.)
All of a sudden, engine quit at 70mph! Rpm's just dropped and oil light came on. Pulled safely to breakdown lane and began to assess:
Read manual about oil light and checked oil. Oil level window showed oil was below minimum.
Got quart of oil, added it and tried to restart - no go.
Tried "flooded engine" procedure - no go.
Checked the kill switch to see if I had hit that by accident - I've done that before!
Walked bike a mile to truck stop and began to assess further:
Called local Honda service and asked if there was a "reset" procedure of some sort; was told no, it should fire right up after adding oil. Still, I disconnected battery terminal for a few minutes and tried again - no go.
Truck mechanics were kind, but not very helpful with their limited bike knowledge, and I didn't want to break down the bike there. So, friend came and we trailered bike home.
Now I have a new (used) bike at home that won't go!
BTW: Previous owner was no help. Said it drove fine when he rode it a couple of weeks ago, so he claimed I must have done something to it!
When I try to start the bike, the lights and gauges come on and it turns over, but it just doesn't fire up. Also, I can feel mild pressure and smell a little exhaust gas coming from the tail pipe when I try to start the bike.
Tried again this morning - no go.
Any ideas before I trailer it to the Honda service?
Thanks in advance.
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 74
From: 28° 4' 26" N / 82° 28' 18" W
But that wouldn't explain why it just died while at speed on the highway...?
Last edited by 05Titan; Mar 31, 2011 at 09:26 AM.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
It doesn't have all the symptoms, but PVLIR perhaps? Maybe it's not getting enough vacuum to open those gas lines...
Look under your tank and make sure all the lines look line this, specifically the small line should be in the back and not on the bottom:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...es-pics-22048/
Look under your tank and make sure all the lines look line this, specifically the small line should be in the back and not on the bottom:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...es-pics-22048/
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 182
From: chicago
Not that you forgot to have it in neutral or have the stand down.
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MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
Check the main fuse. Not the ones in the small fuse box but the one under the left side of the tail section.
If it's blown, you might also want to check out the R\R before start riding it.
Though a bad side stand switch would be the first place to look.....
If it's blown, you might also want to check out the R\R before start riding it.
Though a bad side stand switch would be the first place to look.....
Last edited by 8541Hawk; Mar 31, 2011 at 12:41 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 74
From: 28° 4' 26" N / 82° 28' 18" W
OK... would that cause instant failure of the engine at highway speed? Or do you think I was a victim of two issues - low oil and faulty switch?
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 74
From: 28° 4' 26" N / 82° 28' 18" W
Hmmm... I did check the fuses under the seat at the truck stop - they were all fine. Didn't know about the main fuse. I will also look into the sidestand switch, too.
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 74
From: 28° 4' 26" N / 82° 28' 18" W
It doesn't have all the symptoms, but PVLIR perhaps? Maybe it's not getting enough vacuum to open those gas lines...
Look under your tank and make sure all the lines look line this, specifically the small line should be in the back and not on the bottom:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...es-pics-22048/
Look under your tank and make sure all the lines look line this, specifically the small line should be in the back and not on the bottom:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...es-pics-22048/
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
Unplug the switch, install a jumper wire and see if the bike starts.
#1 : http://www.hondapartsline.com/fiche_...1998&fveh=4077
#1 : http://www.hondapartsline.com/fiche_...1998&fveh=4077
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
And the oil light will be on any time the electrical is on and there is no oil pressure. (so engine not running = oil light on)
Unless you are sure the oil light came on before the engine shut off...
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 74
From: 28° 4' 26" N / 82° 28' 18" W
See, that's the interesting part to me. I had been looking down at the gauges often, during the ride, because I was trying to get used to the bike. The oil light did NOT come on before the bike shut down. I just assumed it was the culprit when I checked the oil level and the level was below minimum.
Retired- but not tired!
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,481
From: Pittsburgh
See, that's the interesting part to me. I had been looking down at the gauges often, during the ride, because I was trying to get used to the bike. The oil light did NOT come on before the bike shut down. I just assumed it was the culprit when I checked the oil level and the level was below minimum.
IS SPARK confirmed? I always treat internal combustion starting problems as one of two primary causes, NO FUEL or NO SPARK. If there's fuel in the float bowls then it's likely fuel's getting to the engine. Next unscrew a spark plug and put it back into the spark wire boot and lay the plug on the engine for grounding and crank the starter. IF you see a good stong blue spark you know it's a fuel/air issue or mechanical. If you see no spark or weak orange spark its electrical. To be sure, look at both plug's in case one has a coil issue for example.
Hope you get 'er goin soon, been in your shoes. Scared the crap out of myself thinking I'd bought a turkey when it was dumbass me left my kill switch in the wrong position a week after I bought mine.
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,066
From: NYC
OK so the oil light coming on was incidental. Anytime you stall for any reason it comes on and low oil doesnt just cut the motor. ALSO, did you check the oil level on the sidestand or upright. I bet you checked it on the sidestand which wont be accurate.
Did you open the gas tank? Vapor lock still happens. Make sure you even have gas. I've seen guys test everything on a bike that is just out of gas. Toggle the kill switch a few times to be sure it wasnt that. The bike is turning over strong but not fireing? Have you tried with and w/o choke & still no fire?
It sound like a small niggle if it was running and still turning over. Could be the side stand thing, or something else cutting spark.
Did you open the gas tank? Vapor lock still happens. Make sure you even have gas. I've seen guys test everything on a bike that is just out of gas. Toggle the kill switch a few times to be sure it wasnt that. The bike is turning over strong but not fireing? Have you tried with and w/o choke & still no fire?
It sound like a small niggle if it was running and still turning over. Could be the side stand thing, or something else cutting spark.
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SuperSport
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 636
From: Baltimore, Maryland
After reading your descriptions the first thing I was thinking, Like smokinJoe, was the vapor-lock syndrome, because you said the owner had just filled the tank completely.
I've never experienced vapor-lock despite filling my tank to the brim a few times, so I don't know how long a motor would run before vapor-lock happens, or how far you would make it.
But then again you say there is a strong gas smell coming out of the exhaust so that would make you think it's getting gas...
Good luck I hope you figure it out without taking it to a shop...sure enough it will probably be something simple and easily fixed.
I've never experienced vapor-lock despite filling my tank to the brim a few times, so I don't know how long a motor would run before vapor-lock happens, or how far you would make it.
But then again you say there is a strong gas smell coming out of the exhaust so that would make you think it's getting gas...
Good luck I hope you figure it out without taking it to a shop...sure enough it will probably be something simple and easily fixed.
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 636
From: Baltimore, Maryland
^^^^^ That is true...
Something else I meant to say I forgot to. It's unlikely for multiple things to go wrong simultaneously that are unrelated(low oil and faulty switch). Of course there are other times where this does happen, like with a R/R failure.
If we're leaning electrical it would point to a kill switch or side stand switch. It's totally possible a wire came loose, or broke, or ect., while you were on the highway. If the previous owner hadn't been riding your bike much a wire could have been degraded to the point that your short ride home was all it needed to break loose.
Something else I meant to say I forgot to. It's unlikely for multiple things to go wrong simultaneously that are unrelated(low oil and faulty switch). Of course there are other times where this does happen, like with a R/R failure.
If we're leaning electrical it would point to a kill switch or side stand switch. It's totally possible a wire came loose, or broke, or ect., while you were on the highway. If the previous owner hadn't been riding your bike much a wire could have been degraded to the point that your short ride home was all it needed to break loose.
my e-penis is huge!!
Superstock
Superstock
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 257
From: belvidere nj
This exact thing happened to a friend & customer of mine. It turned out to be the Converter box for CDI under the seat. He was riding up the highway, in traffic & it just died. Make note though, they are NOT the same in all years, there is a definate change over in the early 2000's somewhere so beware if you buy used.
SKU: 30450-MBB-E31
CONVERTER UNIT, C.D.I. 1 $442.73
SKU: 30450-MBB-E31
CONVERTER UNIT, C.D.I. 1 $442.73
Last edited by SPRHK; Apr 1, 2011 at 07:45 AM.
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SuperSport
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 677
From: Rancho Cordova, California
I really hope this is a simple fix. If you didn't hear anything drastic, and the motor still turns over without any knocking, it probably is. These bikes have their issues (as they all do) but the worst would be the CCT and you would have heard something, or you would during cranking. Good luck man, LOTS of good info here.
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 74
From: 28° 4' 26" N / 82° 28' 18" W
Gonna address all of your ideas today guys - thanks.
Just to review... Full tank of gas when I picked it up. No hiccups or any sign of any issue until the incident. When it happened, the engine just died out, as if I HAD hit the kill switch (but I checked that - nope). No other noises; I did not "feel" anything just before, nor as it happened. The drive on the highway was a clear day, light traffic and the road was clean.
The gas tank is at least half full. Battery is at 12V according to my battery charger/tester and when I try to start the engine, the gauge cluster comes on and all is as expected there. But let's be clear on the correct starting procedure:
Kickstand is down, pull out the choke, gear is in neutral, hold the clutch in, then depress the ignition button. It makes all the cranking sounds that you would expect, and it sounds like it will fire up, but it doesn't. I have tried it with and without the choke and it doesn't matter whether the kill switch is on or off either - I get the same sounds and the same result.
So... It does not appear to be the kickstand switch - I unplugged the switch and jumped a wire between the two terminals with the same result. I have not been able to figure out how to check the kill switch, though. The wiring coming from the ignition and kill switch housing is convoluted and illogical to me. Why does one set of wires terminate at a box under the right brake reservoir? The other wires go out and under the gauge cluster - I can't see or feel any further. I removed both spark plugs and they are pretty black, but not coated. Nothing rubs off with my finger really, it's just a black color from tip to the first third of the threads.
98VTRrider:
Interesting idea about vapor lock. The tank was filled to the brim - it was so full, you couldn't add spit! However, it is about 3/4 to half full now and I have opened the tank cap more than once, so I don't think that's the problem. Also: It's not a "strong" gas smell in the exhaust when I try to crank it over, but enough of a smell to tell me that it would appear gas is moving. Plus I get the gentle puffing through the tailpipes.
smokinjoe73:
The bike was upright when I checked the oil - it was just below the minimum level so I added a quart and it went almost to max. I have toggled the kill switch several times over the course of this investigation. I have tried firing it up both ways - choke in/out. I even tried the "flooded engine" procedure.
All in all, I can't believe that it's fuel or spark plug related, because my logic tells me it wouldn't be performing like a top and then just cut out like that; then not fire up again. Since I added oil, I would think that's not the issue either.
Just to review... Full tank of gas when I picked it up. No hiccups or any sign of any issue until the incident. When it happened, the engine just died out, as if I HAD hit the kill switch (but I checked that - nope). No other noises; I did not "feel" anything just before, nor as it happened. The drive on the highway was a clear day, light traffic and the road was clean.
The gas tank is at least half full. Battery is at 12V according to my battery charger/tester and when I try to start the engine, the gauge cluster comes on and all is as expected there. But let's be clear on the correct starting procedure:
Kickstand is down, pull out the choke, gear is in neutral, hold the clutch in, then depress the ignition button. It makes all the cranking sounds that you would expect, and it sounds like it will fire up, but it doesn't. I have tried it with and without the choke and it doesn't matter whether the kill switch is on or off either - I get the same sounds and the same result.
So... It does not appear to be the kickstand switch - I unplugged the switch and jumped a wire between the two terminals with the same result. I have not been able to figure out how to check the kill switch, though. The wiring coming from the ignition and kill switch housing is convoluted and illogical to me. Why does one set of wires terminate at a box under the right brake reservoir? The other wires go out and under the gauge cluster - I can't see or feel any further. I removed both spark plugs and they are pretty black, but not coated. Nothing rubs off with my finger really, it's just a black color from tip to the first third of the threads.
98VTRrider:
Interesting idea about vapor lock. The tank was filled to the brim - it was so full, you couldn't add spit! However, it is about 3/4 to half full now and I have opened the tank cap more than once, so I don't think that's the problem. Also: It's not a "strong" gas smell in the exhaust when I try to crank it over, but enough of a smell to tell me that it would appear gas is moving. Plus I get the gentle puffing through the tailpipes.
smokinjoe73:
The bike was upright when I checked the oil - it was just below the minimum level so I added a quart and it went almost to max. I have toggled the kill switch several times over the course of this investigation. I have tried firing it up both ways - choke in/out. I even tried the "flooded engine" procedure.
All in all, I can't believe that it's fuel or spark plug related, because my logic tells me it wouldn't be performing like a top and then just cut out like that; then not fire up again. Since I added oil, I would think that's not the issue either.
Last edited by 05Titan; Apr 2, 2011 at 10:06 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 74
From: 28° 4' 26" N / 82° 28' 18" W
NO CONTINUITY / LOTS OF CONTINUITY
Ok... Here's something confusing. I hope I did this right...
I removed the neutral switch and checked its continuity. I have continuity whether it is in gear OR neutral. Both ways, I have continuity! Hmmmm...
Then, I tried the clutch switch. I checked the continuity at the terminals. I do NOT have continuity whether the clutch is depressed or not.
In both cases - yes - I have the ignition switch on, but I am NOT pressing the ignition switch.
Help me with that guys!!
I removed the neutral switch and checked its continuity. I have continuity whether it is in gear OR neutral. Both ways, I have continuity! Hmmmm...
Then, I tried the clutch switch. I checked the continuity at the terminals. I do NOT have continuity whether the clutch is depressed or not.
In both cases - yes - I have the ignition switch on, but I am NOT pressing the ignition switch.
Help me with that guys!!
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 182
From: chicago
According to the service manual the neutral switch should have continuity when in neutral, but not when in any gear except neutral.
If you need a replacement, I have a spare you can have for $15 shipped.
*I just checked mine, and that is the case...continuity when in neutral, but not when in gear.
If you need a replacement, I have a spare you can have for $15 shipped.
*I just checked mine, and that is the case...continuity when in neutral, but not when in gear.
Last edited by superh1998; Apr 2, 2011 at 12:13 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 74
From: 28° 4' 26" N / 82° 28' 18" W
According to the service manual the neutral switch should have continuity when in neutral, but not when in any gear except neutral.
If you need a replacement, I have a spare you can have for $15 shipped.
*I just checked mine, and that is the case...continuity when in neutral, but not when in gear.
If you need a replacement, I have a spare you can have for $15 shipped.
*I just checked mine, and that is the case...continuity when in neutral, but not when in gear.
I understand that something's inherently wrong with the switch since it allows continuity no matter what, but I would think that "failure" would be in my favor and allow the engine to start in any gear.
And what about the clutch switch? It is doing the opposite of the neutral switch. No continuity whasover.
CORRECTION (4/3/2011): I checked the switch again this morning. I must have done something wrong the first time, because I have continuity. Just to be sure, I ran a jumper wire from the leads - it still would not start.
Last edited by 05Titan; Apr 3, 2011 at 07:44 AM.
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Back Marker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 182
From: chicago
Not sure.
I simply checked the service manual and that's what is says in there.
There is a thread with the service manual in pdf, so you can take a look.
I would find the link for you, but I have to run.
Good luck...hopefully you can figure it out!
I simply checked the service manual and that's what is says in there.
There is a thread with the service manual in pdf, so you can take a look.
I would find the link for you, but I have to run.
Good luck...hopefully you can figure it out!
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MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
This won't cause the bike to die or not start though. It will just make it go you can't start the bike in gear.
You can always jump the leads going into the switch and see if the bike starts.
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 74
From: 28° 4' 26" N / 82° 28' 18" W
Then you have a bad or dirty switch. Try cleaning the switch out and if it still doesn't work, replace it.
This won't cause the bike to die or not start though. It will just make it go you can't start the bike in gear.
You can always jump the leads going into the switch and see if the bike starts.
This won't cause the bike to die or not start though. It will just make it go you can't start the bike in gear.
You can always jump the leads going into the switch and see if the bike starts.
Arrgh!!! I don't want to take this to Honda service tomorrow, but I'm really frustrated.
