Technical Discussion Topics related to Technical Issues

metal in the oil

Old 12-14-2015, 08:45 PM
  #1  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
metal in the oil

Ok got my VTR1000 just over 3 months ago I changed the oil about a week after and it was black sludge as i poured it into a container to there was a fair few speckles of metal some perhaps a 1/2 MM the rest looked like I'd been panning for gold, I did put the filter on a little drainage peg on my oil drain pan.
I then changed out my CCT's for MCCT's and it stopped rattling as much valve clearances were in spec apart from the exhaust which were .36 and .35 (i'm waiting on a shim kit)
roll on today and I've put only 1500Km on it and again there's a fair bit of metal in the oil i did drain the filter too not nearly the same size as first still enough to make the bottom of the drainage pan look like metallic paint.
Question is should i be worried seems to run ok.
3stars is offline  
Old 12-15-2015, 05:35 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
xeris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Posts: 1,458
xeris is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by 3stars View Post
Question is should i be worried seems to run ok.
Uh..YEAH
xeris is offline  
Old 12-15-2015, 07:18 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
Superstock
 
Hangfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: San Fran Freako
Posts: 389
Hangfly is on a distinguished road
This is concerning. But don't feel bad. It can happen to a $437 million US battleship also.

"The USS Milwaukee, a vast, futuristic-looking beast, suffered an engineering problem while en route from Halifax, Canada, to Mayport in Florida. From Florida it was due to travel on to its home port of San Diego.
But the ship, commissioned on November 21, suffered problems on Friday.
The Navy Times said that initial reports suggest fine metal debris collected in the lube oil filter, causing the system to shut down."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...r-20-days.html

Last edited by Hangfly; 12-15-2015 at 07:21 AM.
Hangfly is offline  
Old 12-15-2015, 12:34 PM
  #4  
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
 
Jack Flash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 1,165
Jack Flash is on a distinguished road
Although Hangfly's story is interesting, I don't think it's much help for now.

Yes metal shavings are something to worry about. It means metal parts are not being lubricated, and are weathering away. I would stop driving the bike right now until you've fixed her. A few questions need to be asked.

What year, KM's/miles, and where are you at ?
Has the oil you put in 1500km ago turned to sludge again ?
What type of shavings are they, al or steel ? If they're steel, they are probably from transmission gears. If they're aluminium, they can be from rod bearings, or engine case.

Are you able to remove oil pan ? If so, it will give you access to pump. Perhaps pump has failed (not likely since it's chain driven, but not overruled). Begin with the basics on this one. When you turn the key to the 'on' position, before you crank her up, does the red oil light come on ? If so, that's good. The fuse for the light is good.

No matter how you go about it, you will probably need to open the engine up to see what is causing your problem.
Jack Flash is offline  
Old 12-15-2015, 12:59 PM
  #5  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
Thanks Jack
it's a 2001 with 57K on the clock
the oil came out fine not sludge with only a mild discolouration
i believe they are aluminium
oil light comes on, it was quite rattly before the MCCT's were put in
I'll drop the pan on the weekend and report back
3stars is offline  
Old 12-15-2015, 03:46 PM
  #6  
That one guy
Back Marker
 
Meier Link's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Broken Arrow
Posts: 225
Meier Link is on a distinguished road
Quick check to know for sure. Grab a magnet. If the parts stick to the magnet they are steel. If not then its aluminum. Helps to know so we can tell you which part of the engine you need to tear into.
Meier Link is offline  
Old 12-15-2015, 06:22 PM
  #7  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Meier Link View Post
Quick check to know for sure. Grab a magnet. If the parts stick to the magnet they are steel. If not then its aluminum. Helps to know so we can tell you which part of the engine you need to tear into.
yep put an old HDD magnet and nothing
so looks like an engine rebuild or sell
It was very rattly before i replace the CCT's much quiter now is there anyway a loose chain might be the cause rubbing

Last edited by 3stars; 12-15-2015 at 06:25 PM.
3stars is offline  
Old 12-15-2015, 06:34 PM
  #8  
That one guy
Back Marker
 
Meier Link's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Broken Arrow
Posts: 225
Meier Link is on a distinguished road
Have you tried to turn the crank by hand? You should be able to tell by turning the crank by hand if it's piston related. There will be a point where it drags and not as easy to turn at certain points or through out the entirety of the strokes.

If not do this in a quite environment and listen as you turn. If you hear a grinding or scrapping noise try to figure out where in the engine the sound is coming from. (Top bottom or mid) .
Meier Link is offline  
Old 12-15-2015, 11:52 PM
  #9  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Meier Link View Post
Have you tried to turn the crank by hand? You should be able to tell by turning the crank by hand if it's piston related. There will be a point where it drags and not as easy to turn at certain points or through out the entirety of the strokes.

If not do this in a quite environment and listen as you turn. If you hear a grinding or scrapping noise try to figure out where in the engine the sound is coming from. (Top bottom or mid) .
no noise, good compression got plenty of power i might fire her up again and record the noise on my phone.
3stars is offline  
Old 12-15-2015, 11:59 PM
  #10  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
what happens when the cct fail, i mean what happens to them
i can't get them to compress or extend for the life of me like i said it was real rattly before the change out now pretty quite
3stars is offline  
Old 12-16-2015, 01:44 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
Back Marker
 
ZERO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SOUTH FLORIDA
Posts: 101
ZERO is on a distinguished road
The rattly/not rattly might have more to do with the new oil than with the CCTs.
Bearing and bushing material is very often NOT magnetic.
ZERO is offline  
Old 12-16-2015, 02:16 AM
  #12  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYQ...4DM9uOjXkAQRLA

here's it running not warmed up and some socks stuck down the pipes to quite her down

excuse the people next door might redo it on the weekend when i get some time

ccts were changed after the new oil i think the old stuff would of kept it quiter it was so sludgy

Last edited by 3stars; 12-16-2015 at 02:37 AM.
3stars is offline  
Old 12-16-2015, 09:01 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
Superstock
 
Big_Jim59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 283
Big_Jim59 is on a distinguished road
Here is what I would do. Put a few more miles on the bike with the new oil and change it again. Get a GoldPlug magnetic drain plug. (I have em for all my bikes.)

It sounds like your bike was not very well maintained. Fresh oil won't heal the old wonds but it will tell you how much of a problem you have. Dropping the pan, and cleaning it out will help. You will also be able to see how much crap is in there. You won't be able to get it all out with one oil change.

I don't hear anything major from the video but you have to remember that your engine is living on borrowed time.
Big_Jim59 is offline  
Old 12-17-2015, 03:39 PM
  #14  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
thats the feeling I'm getting from the few months I've had it that's why it was shuch a good deal, I'll ride it and maintain it until it goes pop then I'll learn how to rebuild a engine, I've always wanted to do that anyway.
It's not down on power that i can tell my others a cbr1100 it's got more get up and go but the vtr seems ok
I'll be doing the valves in the next few weeks
3stars is offline  
Old 12-18-2015, 10:19 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
Superstock
 
Big_Jim59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 283
Big_Jim59 is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by 3stars View Post
thats the feeling I'm getting from the few months I've had it that's why it was shuch a good deal, I'll ride it and maintain it until it goes pop then I'll learn how to rebuild a engine, I've always wanted to do that anyway.
It's not down on power that i can tell my others a cbr1100 it's got more get up and go but the vtr seems ok
I'll be doing the valves in the next few weeks
If you feel up to the task you could rebuild it before it went pop and save yourself some green. It's a real labor intensive job and you have to disassemble damn near everything but the head light but at least you wouldn't have to buy rods, crank and engine cases like I did. Take a look at my post

My Journey Into the Heart of The VTR - SuperHawk Forum
Big_Jim59 is offline  
Old 12-18-2015, 10:35 PM
  #16  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
I just missed a cheap engine that needed rebuilding a while ago. i'm keen to learn there's another that's the guy reckons it keeps jumping out of second gear it might be worth a look.
thanks for the link I read some of it before but it looks like i better read the whole thing
3stars is offline  
Old 12-19-2015, 07:51 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
Superstock
 
Big_Jim59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 283
Big_Jim59 is on a distinguished road
Ya gotta go just a deep to replace 2nd gear. You might as well freshen the bottom end with new bearings. That would be easy to do.
Big_Jim59 is offline  
Old 12-19-2015, 10:26 AM
  #18  
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
 
Jack Flash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 1,165
Jack Flash is on a distinguished road

Last edited by Jack Flash; 12-19-2015 at 10:29 AM.
Jack Flash is offline  
Old 12-19-2015, 02:19 PM
  #19  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Big_Jim59 View Post
Ya gotta go just a deep to replace 2nd gear. You might as well freshen the bottom end with new bearings. That would be easy to do.
It's for a whole bike might consider it

Originally Posted by Jack Flash View Post
I'm in australia so shippings going to kill me, I can get one from the wreckers but their about 1-2 k the one that jumps out of gear is only 1.5 listed I could get for 1-1.2 I think
3stars is offline  
Old 12-20-2015, 08:54 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
Back Marker
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 103
twinman is on a distinguished road
Oh boy
twinman is offline  
Old 12-20-2015, 07:50 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
Back Marker
 
sjscicluna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 143
sjscicluna is on a distinguished road
3 stars where in Australia are you
sjscicluna is offline  
Old 12-20-2015, 08:25 PM
  #22  
That one guy
Back Marker
 
Meier Link's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Broken Arrow
Posts: 225
Meier Link is on a distinguished road
Ok I will be the one that states the obvious.

Live on a short changed motor and watch it fail with you on the bike or park it and tear it down and rebuild before you blow a motor.

A couple hundred sounds a lot better then over a thousand and thr risk of personal injury.

Going to say what's on all of our minds. Don't be a douche. Take the time and find the problem. Don't keep riding on a ticking time bomb.

Metal in the oil is exactly that. Your not in a cage. 2 wheels. Motor fails you not only put your self at risk but the people around you.

Wanna ride? Do what's right to keep your bike right or keep your bike off the road.
Meier Link is offline  
Old 12-20-2015, 09:58 PM
  #23  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
E.Marquez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,211
E.Marquez is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Meier Link View Post
Ok I will be the one that states the obvious.

Live on a short changed motor and watch it fail with you on the bike or park it and tear it down and rebuild before you blow a motor.

A couple hundred sounds a lot better then over a thousand and thr risk of personal injury.

Going to say what's on all of our minds. Don't be a douche. Take the time and find the problem. Don't keep riding on a ticking time bomb.

Metal in the oil is exactly that. Your not in a cage. 2 wheels. Motor fails you not only put your self at risk but the people around you.

Wanna ride? Do what's right to keep your bike right or keep your bike off the road.
Based on the limited verbiage he has posted and NO pics, Id say your being a bit extreme.
Metal in the oil that can look quite plentiful even to an experienced rider or Mech and can come from just a few missed shifts, or more over a longer period of time. His posts made it sounds like it had been quite awhile since last oil change.....

To the OP, before you get into a rebuild or taking the bike off the road unneededly.. Drop the oil and oil pan.. clean what you can with some very light oil, solvent or Kerosene .. put it back together.. run it for a week or three with fresh oil.. drop the oil into a CLEAN container and examine closely. Cut open the filter and examine closely. If you're still finding copper or gold color metal, that's not good. If it is silver and non metallic, thats not good. If it's silver and metallic it's likely bearings (transmission ball., not the crank / rod plain bearings) if the quantity is less than last time, repeat the cleaning and oil change, run it another few weeks, check again. If it's still shedding metal, you know you have an issue.
E.Marquez is offline  
Old 12-21-2015, 12:05 AM
  #24  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
kenmoore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New South Wales Australia
Posts: 1,524
kenmoore is on a distinguished road
I tend to agree with Eric,

Every time I do an oil change on any bike I always take the oil pan out into the sunlight to inspect for contamination.

I have done this for many many years and am yet to have an oil change without some form of metallic pieces in it. Engines and transmissions wear, you can't escape that.

As you have indicated the history of the bike is not known and it may have been a long time between oil changes so I would pull the sump, clean it up, ride it, then do another change and see what happens.

A good thing to remember is that these motors are mechanically noisy, but are known for their reliability (apart from CCTs) and high mileages.

Where abouts are you in Oz?

I am on the South Coast of N.S.W.
kenmoore is offline  
Old 12-21-2015, 02:08 PM
  #25  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by sjscicluna View Post
3 stars where in Australia are you
Based in the eastern suburbs of melbourne

I still have the old oil from both changes so I'll run them both through a sieve to show what came out.

I haven't been riding it I've got other options

They way I see it i have three options
Rebuild
new/second hand motor
be a dick and sell as is
3stars is offline  
Old 12-21-2015, 06:03 PM
  #26  
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
 
Jack Flash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 1,165
Jack Flash is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by 3stars View Post
be a dick and sell as is
This bike is really worth keeping. Lots of fun, reliable, and worth putting the time in it.
I stand by my first reasoning, remove pan, and observe the internals. You should be able to answer some, if not all of your questions.
Jack Flash is offline  
Old 12-22-2015, 04:53 AM
  #27  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Jack Flash View Post
This bike is really worth keeping. Lots of fun, reliable, and worth putting the time in it.
I stand by my first reasoning, remove pan, and observe the internals. You should be able to answer some, if not all of your questions.
Don't get me wrong i love the bike I've got 1000rr forks and a 954 triple ready to go on,this has set back my plans a bit, love the V twin and the sound is great, a little unique too, I like the CBR for mile work, but it's a little soulless the VTR has soul.
3stars is offline  
Old 12-22-2015, 05:26 AM
  #28  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
xeris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Posts: 1,458
xeris is on a distinguished road
If the cost is acceptable, you could get an UOA (used oil analysis). With that you would know what component(s) the metal is coming from.
xeris is offline  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:41 PM
  #29  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
well it's time for an engine transplant I've just picked up a whole bike for 1500 with only 37k on the clock
that leaves me time to rebuild the old engine and now I'm the proud owner of 2 VTRs
3stars is offline  
Old 03-13-2016, 07:27 AM
  #30  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
3stars is on a distinguished road
dropped the pan today not a flake only some minor debris in the cooler i'll try and up load some pics im still going to put a new engine in as im half way there now
3stars is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
vinkate
Technical Discussion
15
11-07-2012 04:21 PM
foundmikey
General Discussion
3
04-09-2011 01:38 PM
skoshere
Technical Discussion
11
03-13-2009 04:20 PM
dsevans
Knowledge Base
6
12-31-2008 05:47 AM
ejizzle
General Discussion
6
01-03-2007 02:18 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: metal in the oil


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:42 AM.


© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands