metal in the oil
12-14-2015, 08:45 PM
#1
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Squid
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metal in the oil
Ok got my VTR1000 just over 3 months ago I changed the oil about a week after and it was black sludge as i poured it into a container to there was a fair few speckles of metal some perhaps a 1/2 MM the rest looked like I'd been panning for gold, I did put the filter on a little drainage peg on my oil drain pan.
I then changed out my CCT's for MCCT's and it stopped rattling as much valve clearances were in spec apart from the exhaust which were .36 and .35 (i'm waiting on a shim kit)
roll on today and I've put only 1500Km on it and again there's a fair bit of metal in the oil i did drain the filter too not nearly the same size as first still enough to make the bottom of the drainage pan look like metallic paint.
Question is should i be worried seems to run ok.
I then changed out my CCT's for MCCT's and it stopped rattling as much valve clearances were in spec apart from the exhaust which were .36 and .35 (i'm waiting on a shim kit)
roll on today and I've put only 1500Km on it and again there's a fair bit of metal in the oil i did drain the filter too not nearly the same size as first still enough to make the bottom of the drainage pan look like metallic paint.
Question is should i be worried seems to run ok.
12-15-2015, 07:18 AM
#3
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Superstock
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This is concerning. But don't feel bad. It can happen to a $437 million US battleship also.
"The USS Milwaukee, a vast, futuristic-looking beast, suffered an engineering problem while en route from Halifax, Canada, to Mayport in Florida. From Florida it was due to travel on to its home port of San Diego.
But the ship, commissioned on November 21, suffered problems on Friday.
The Navy Times said that initial reports suggest fine metal debris collected in the lube oil filter, causing the system to shut down."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...r-20-days.html
"The USS Milwaukee, a vast, futuristic-looking beast, suffered an engineering problem while en route from Halifax, Canada, to Mayport in Florida. From Florida it was due to travel on to its home port of San Diego.
But the ship, commissioned on November 21, suffered problems on Friday.
The Navy Times said that initial reports suggest fine metal debris collected in the lube oil filter, causing the system to shut down."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...r-20-days.html
Last edited by Hangfly; 12-15-2015 at 07:21 AM.
12-15-2015, 12:34 PM
#4
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
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Location: QC, Canada
Posts: 1,201
Although Hangfly's story is interesting, I don't think it's much help for now. 
Yes metal shavings are something to worry about. It means metal parts are not being lubricated, and are weathering away. I would stop driving the bike right now until you've fixed her. A few questions need to be asked.
What year, KM's/miles, and where are you at ?
Has the oil you put in 1500km ago turned to sludge again ?
What type of shavings are they, al or steel ? If they're steel, they are probably from transmission gears. If they're aluminium, they can be from rod bearings, or engine case.
Are you able to remove oil pan ? If so, it will give you access to pump. Perhaps pump has failed (not likely since it's chain driven, but not overruled). Begin with the basics on this one. When you turn the key to the 'on' position, before you crank her up, does the red oil light come on ? If so, that's good. The fuse for the light is good.
No matter how you go about it, you will probably need to open the engine up to see what is causing your problem.
Yes metal shavings are something to worry about. It means metal parts are not being lubricated, and are weathering away. I would stop driving the bike right now until you've fixed her. A few questions need to be asked.
What year, KM's/miles, and where are you at ?
Has the oil you put in 1500km ago turned to sludge again ?
What type of shavings are they, al or steel ? If they're steel, they are probably from transmission gears. If they're aluminium, they can be from rod bearings, or engine case.
Are you able to remove oil pan ? If so, it will give you access to pump. Perhaps pump has failed (not likely since it's chain driven, but not overruled). Begin with the basics on this one. When you turn the key to the 'on' position, before you crank her up, does the red oil light come on ? If so, that's good. The fuse for the light is good.
No matter how you go about it, you will probably need to open the engine up to see what is causing your problem.
12-15-2015, 12:59 PM
#5
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Squid
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Thanks Jack
it's a 2001 with 57K on the clock
the oil came out fine not sludge with only a mild discolouration
i believe they are aluminium
oil light comes on, it was quite rattly before the MCCT's were put in
I'll drop the pan on the weekend and report back
it's a 2001 with 57K on the clock
the oil came out fine not sludge with only a mild discolouration
i believe they are aluminium
oil light comes on, it was quite rattly before the MCCT's were put in
I'll drop the pan on the weekend and report back
12-15-2015, 03:46 PM
#6
That one guy
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Quick check to know for sure. Grab a magnet. If the parts stick to the magnet they are steel. If not then its aluminum. Helps to know so we can tell you which part of the engine you need to tear into.
12-15-2015, 06:22 PM
#7
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Squid
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so looks like an engine rebuild or sell
It was very rattly before i replace the CCT's much quiter now is there anyway a loose chain might be the cause rubbing
Last edited by 3stars; 12-15-2015 at 06:25 PM.
12-15-2015, 06:34 PM
#8
That one guy
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Have you tried to turn the crank by hand? You should be able to tell by turning the crank by hand if it's piston related. There will be a point where it drags and not as easy to turn at certain points or through out the entirety of the strokes.
If not do this in a quite environment and listen as you turn. If you hear a grinding or scrapping noise try to figure out where in the engine the sound is coming from. (Top bottom or mid) .
If not do this in a quite environment and listen as you turn. If you hear a grinding or scrapping noise try to figure out where in the engine the sound is coming from. (Top bottom or mid) .
12-15-2015, 11:52 PM
#9
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Have you tried to turn the crank by hand? You should be able to tell by turning the crank by hand if it's piston related. There will be a point where it drags and not as easy to turn at certain points or through out the entirety of the strokes.
If not do this in a quite environment and listen as you turn. If you hear a grinding or scrapping noise try to figure out where in the engine the sound is coming from. (Top bottom or mid) .
If not do this in a quite environment and listen as you turn. If you hear a grinding or scrapping noise try to figure out where in the engine the sound is coming from. (Top bottom or mid) .
12-16-2015, 02:16 AM
#12
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Squid
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYQ...4DM9uOjXkAQRLA
here's it running not warmed up and some socks stuck down the pipes to quite her down
excuse the people next door might redo it on the weekend when i get some time
ccts were changed after the new oil i think the old stuff would of kept it quiter it was so sludgy
here's it running not warmed up and some socks stuck down the pipes to quite her down
excuse the people next door might redo it on the weekend when i get some time
ccts were changed after the new oil i think the old stuff would of kept it quiter it was so sludgy
Last edited by 3stars; 12-16-2015 at 02:37 AM.
12-16-2015, 09:01 PM
#13
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Here is what I would do. Put a few more miles on the bike with the new oil and change it again. Get a GoldPlug magnetic drain plug. (I have em for all my bikes.)
It sounds like your bike was not very well maintained. Fresh oil won't heal the old wonds but it will tell you how much of a problem you have. Dropping the pan, and cleaning it out will help. You will also be able to see how much crap is in there. You won't be able to get it all out with one oil change.
I don't hear anything major from the video but you have to remember that your engine is living on borrowed time.
It sounds like your bike was not very well maintained. Fresh oil won't heal the old wonds but it will tell you how much of a problem you have. Dropping the pan, and cleaning it out will help. You will also be able to see how much crap is in there. You won't be able to get it all out with one oil change.
I don't hear anything major from the video but you have to remember that your engine is living on borrowed time.
12-17-2015, 03:39 PM
#14
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Squid
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thats the feeling I'm getting from the few months I've had it that's why it was shuch a good deal, I'll ride it and maintain it until it goes pop then I'll learn how to rebuild a engine, I've always wanted to do that anyway.
It's not down on power that i can tell my others a cbr1100 it's got more get up and go but the vtr seems ok
I'll be doing the valves in the next few weeks
It's not down on power that i can tell my others a cbr1100 it's got more get up and go but the vtr seems ok
I'll be doing the valves in the next few weeks
12-18-2015, 10:19 PM
#15
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thats the feeling I'm getting from the few months I've had it that's why it was shuch a good deal, I'll ride it and maintain it until it goes pop then I'll learn how to rebuild a engine, I've always wanted to do that anyway.
It's not down on power that i can tell my others a cbr1100 it's got more get up and go but the vtr seems ok
I'll be doing the valves in the next few weeks
It's not down on power that i can tell my others a cbr1100 it's got more get up and go but the vtr seems ok
I'll be doing the valves in the next few weeks
My Journey Into the Heart of The VTR - SuperHawk Forum
12-18-2015, 10:35 PM
#16
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Squid
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I just missed a cheap engine that needed rebuilding a while ago. i'm keen to learn there's another that's the guy reckons it keeps jumping out of second gear it might be worth a look.
thanks for the link I read some of it before but it looks like i better read the whole thing
thanks for the link I read some of it before but it looks like i better read the whole thing
12-19-2015, 10:26 AM
#18
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
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Location: QC, Canada
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If you need an engine on the cheap side....
1998 05 Honda Superhawk 1000 VTR 1000 Engine Motor Complete Engine Runs Great | eBay
For a few extra frog skins...
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/03-Honda-VTR1...hWToWF&vxp=mtr
1998 05 Honda Superhawk 1000 VTR 1000 Engine Motor Complete Engine Runs Great | eBay
For a few extra frog skins...
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/03-Honda-VTR1...hWToWF&vxp=mtr
Last edited by Jack Flash; 12-19-2015 at 10:29 AM.
12-19-2015, 02:19 PM
#19
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Squid
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Join Date: Nov 2015
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If you need an engine on the cheap side....
1998 05 Honda Superhawk 1000 VTR 1000 Engine Motor Complete Engine Runs Great | eBay
For a few extra frog skins...
03 Honda VTR1000F Superhawk Engine Good Running Motor 60 DAY Warranty | eBay
1998 05 Honda Superhawk 1000 VTR 1000 Engine Motor Complete Engine Runs Great | eBay
For a few extra frog skins...
03 Honda VTR1000F Superhawk Engine Good Running Motor 60 DAY Warranty | eBay
12-20-2015, 08:25 PM
#22
That one guy
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Ok I will be the one that states the obvious.
Live on a short changed motor and watch it fail with you on the bike or park it and tear it down and rebuild before you blow a motor.
A couple hundred sounds a lot better then over a thousand and thr risk of personal injury.
Going to say what's on all of our minds. Don't be a douche. Take the time and find the problem. Don't keep riding on a ticking time bomb.
Metal in the oil is exactly that. Your not in a cage. 2 wheels. Motor fails you not only put your self at risk but the people around you.
Wanna ride? Do what's right to keep your bike right or keep your bike off the road.
Live on a short changed motor and watch it fail with you on the bike or park it and tear it down and rebuild before you blow a motor.
A couple hundred sounds a lot better then over a thousand and thr risk of personal injury.
Going to say what's on all of our minds. Don't be a douche. Take the time and find the problem. Don't keep riding on a ticking time bomb.
Metal in the oil is exactly that. Your not in a cage. 2 wheels. Motor fails you not only put your self at risk but the people around you.
Wanna ride? Do what's right to keep your bike right or keep your bike off the road.
12-20-2015, 09:58 PM
#23
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MotoGP
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Ok I will be the one that states the obvious.
Live on a short changed motor and watch it fail with you on the bike or park it and tear it down and rebuild before you blow a motor.
A couple hundred sounds a lot better then over a thousand and thr risk of personal injury.
Going to say what's on all of our minds. Don't be a douche. Take the time and find the problem. Don't keep riding on a ticking time bomb.
Metal in the oil is exactly that. Your not in a cage. 2 wheels. Motor fails you not only put your self at risk but the people around you.
Wanna ride? Do what's right to keep your bike right or keep your bike off the road.
Live on a short changed motor and watch it fail with you on the bike or park it and tear it down and rebuild before you blow a motor.
A couple hundred sounds a lot better then over a thousand and thr risk of personal injury.
Going to say what's on all of our minds. Don't be a douche. Take the time and find the problem. Don't keep riding on a ticking time bomb.
Metal in the oil is exactly that. Your not in a cage. 2 wheels. Motor fails you not only put your self at risk but the people around you.
Wanna ride? Do what's right to keep your bike right or keep your bike off the road.
Metal in the oil that can look quite plentiful even to an experienced rider or Mech and can come from just a few missed shifts, or more over a longer period of time. His posts made it sounds like it had been quite awhile since last oil change.....
To the OP, before you get into a rebuild or taking the bike off the road unneededly.. Drop the oil and oil pan.. clean what you can with some very light oil, solvent or Kerosene .. put it back together.. run it for a week or three with fresh oil.. drop the oil into a CLEAN container and examine closely. Cut open the filter and examine closely. If you're still finding copper or gold color metal, that's not good. If it is silver and non metallic, thats not good. If it's silver and metallic it's likely bearings (transmission ball., not the crank / rod plain bearings) if the quantity is less than last time, repeat the cleaning and oil change, run it another few weeks, check again. If it's still shedding metal, you know you have an issue.
12-21-2015, 12:05 AM
#24
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SuperBike
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I tend to agree with Eric,
Every time I do an oil change on any bike I always take the oil pan out into the sunlight to inspect for contamination.
I have done this for many many years and am yet to have an oil change without some form of metallic pieces in it. Engines and transmissions wear, you can't escape that.
As you have indicated the history of the bike is not known and it may have been a long time between oil changes so I would pull the sump, clean it up, ride it, then do another change and see what happens.
A good thing to remember is that these motors are mechanically noisy, but are known for their reliability (apart from CCTs) and high mileages.
Where abouts are you in Oz?
I am on the South Coast of N.S.W.
Every time I do an oil change on any bike I always take the oil pan out into the sunlight to inspect for contamination.
I have done this for many many years and am yet to have an oil change without some form of metallic pieces in it. Engines and transmissions wear, you can't escape that.
As you have indicated the history of the bike is not known and it may have been a long time between oil changes so I would pull the sump, clean it up, ride it, then do another change and see what happens.
A good thing to remember is that these motors are mechanically noisy, but are known for their reliability (apart from CCTs) and high mileages.
Where abouts are you in Oz?
I am on the South Coast of N.S.W.
12-21-2015, 02:08 PM
#25
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Squid
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Based in the eastern suburbs of melbourne
I still have the old oil from both changes so I'll run them both through a sieve to show what came out.
I haven't been riding it I've got other options
They way I see it i have three options
Rebuild
new/second hand motor
be a dick and sell as is
I still have the old oil from both changes so I'll run them both through a sieve to show what came out.
I haven't been riding it I've got other options
They way I see it i have three options
Rebuild
new/second hand motor
be a dick and sell as is
12-21-2015, 06:03 PM
#26
Well take off, eh.
SuperBike
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Location: QC, Canada
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12-22-2015, 04:53 AM
#27
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Squid
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Don't get me wrong i love the bike I've got 1000rr forks and a 954 triple ready to go on,this has set back my plans a bit, love the V twin and the sound is great, a little unique too, I like the CBR for mile work, but it's a little soulless the VTR has soul.
02-21-2016, 08:41 PM
#29
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Squid
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well it's time for an engine transplant I've just picked up a whole bike for 1500 with only 37k on the clock
that leaves me time to rebuild the old engine and now I'm the proud owner of 2 VTRs
that leaves me time to rebuild the old engine and now I'm the proud owner of 2 VTRs
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