Just had work done, is it right?
08-09-2011, 07:12 PM
#1
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Squid
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Location: Springfield, OH
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Just had work done, is it right?
OK, so I bought my 98 SH about 4-5 months ago, give or take, and the best mileage I have seen was about 67 miles until the light came on. It has dual jardine rt-1s and I believe that was it, other than a jet kit of some type the previous owner put on. I was thinking that it was dumping too much fuel, it blows smoke at full twist of the throttle.
So I take it to a mechanic here in town and he said it had 185 jet and he put a 160 in and cleaned out the carbs. Now it pops way more on deceleration than it did before and still black smoke at full throttle twist.
I know nothing, I have searched on here and I can't find what will answer this. Please help.
So I take it to a mechanic here in town and he said it had 185 jet and he put a 160 in and cleaned out the carbs. Now it pops way more on deceleration than it did before and still black smoke at full throttle twist.
I know nothing, I have searched on here and I can't find what will answer this. Please help.
08-09-2011, 07:21 PM
#2
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MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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That's a pretty lean jet for this bike (which would also cause the popping)... did he put it in both sides? Front and rear jets should be different sizes. Look at the carb setup in my sig for a start.
08-09-2011, 08:32 PM
#3
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WAY to lean. As in dangerously lean. You are probably so far on the lean side of peak the bike is starving for fuel at WOT. Take it to another mechanic, or have the one you took it to explain to you why he put such small jets in it.
08-09-2011, 09:30 PM
#6
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I think JN= jet needle @ 3rd groove. You have an aftermarket jet kit in your bike.
I believe stock mains is 175 front, 178 Rear. Different sized jets b/c the rear cylinder gets hotter and needs to run slighly cooler. Your mechanic should know this.
While you're in there, replace your pilot jets with #48- they are probably at #45 right now.
Are you running an aftermarket air filter? If so, the K&N is known to cause a rich mid-range. Go back to stock. Most of this is in the carb setup thread that 8541Hawk provided us... there's a link in my sig.
I believe stock mains is 175 front, 178 Rear. Different sized jets b/c the rear cylinder gets hotter and needs to run slighly cooler. Your mechanic should know this.
While you're in there, replace your pilot jets with #48- they are probably at #45 right now.
Are you running an aftermarket air filter? If so, the K&N is known to cause a rich mid-range. Go back to stock. Most of this is in the carb setup thread that 8541Hawk provided us... there's a link in my sig.
08-10-2011, 11:50 AM
#7
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Squid
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Springfield, OH
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I think JN= jet needle @ 3rd groove. You have an aftermarket jet kit in your bike.
I believe stock mains is 175 front, 178 Rear. Different sized jets b/c the rear cylinder gets hotter and needs to run slighly cooler. Your mechanic should know this.
While you're in there, replace your pilot jets with #48- they are probably at #45 right now.
Are you running an aftermarket air filter? If so, the K&N is known to cause a rich mid-range. Go back to stock. Most of this is in the carb setup thread that 8541Hawk provided us... there's a link in my sig.
I believe stock mains is 175 front, 178 Rear. Different sized jets b/c the rear cylinder gets hotter and needs to run slighly cooler. Your mechanic should know this.
While you're in there, replace your pilot jets with #48- they are probably at #45 right now.
Are you running an aftermarket air filter? If so, the K&N is known to cause a rich mid-range. Go back to stock. Most of this is in the carb setup thread that 8541Hawk provided us... there's a link in my sig.
08-10-2011, 12:23 PM
#9
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By reading your post I would guess that you ended up with 160 mains and #50 pilots.....
I'm not sure why this was done but it is not what the bike wants or needs.
The link to my carb thread has already been given to you and all you need to do is a bit of reading and it should give you most, if not all, of your answers.
The bike needs a 175f\178r main jet to be back at stock, so yeah you are really lean and could possibly cause damage running it that way.
08-10-2011, 12:48 PM
#10
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Superstock
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Just do the work yourself!
Lots of great information on this site. Even if you are not mechanically minded. With some perseverance and patience anyone can do carb work. Few tools are required, just careful and methodical work. Down load the workshop manual from this site, and get stuck in. You learn about your bike and do a better job than the mechanic.
Lots of great information on this site. Even if you are not mechanically minded. With some perseverance and patience anyone can do carb work. Few tools are required, just careful and methodical work. Down load the workshop manual from this site, and get stuck in. You learn about your bike and do a better job than the mechanic.
08-10-2011, 01:45 PM
#11
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Squid
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 25
Just do the work yourself!
Lots of great information on this site. Even if you are not mechanically minded. With some perseverance and patience anyone can do carb work. Few tools are required, just careful and methodical work. Down load the workshop manual from this site, and get stuck in. You learn about your bike and do a better job than the mechanic.
Lots of great information on this site. Even if you are not mechanically minded. With some perseverance and patience anyone can do carb work. Few tools are required, just careful and methodical work. Down load the workshop manual from this site, and get stuck in. You learn about your bike and do a better job than the mechanic.
Plus you will save yourself a barrel load of cash
08-10-2011, 03:32 PM
#14
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I was getting bad mileage too and did some changing. I had 190 both front and rear! Also had size 50 jets. I changed to 175 front and 180 rear. (would have went with 178 but couldn't find it locally.) I went down to 48 jets.
I plugged a couple holes in the slides and re-shimmed the needles. Changed the TPS to 500ohms and plugged some vac lines that were left open from the previous owner taking off the Cali smog stuff. I also had toe clean the carbs up since I found breather foam in the vac diaphram area. Did the diy home carb synch tool. Long story short it runs so much better and I think it can run even better since I havent fine tuned the mixture yet. Im currently set at 2 1/2 turns out. I get about 110 miles before light comes on. Doesnt seem to matter how I drive it either which seems weird.
I plugged a couple holes in the slides and re-shimmed the needles. Changed the TPS to 500ohms and plugged some vac lines that were left open from the previous owner taking off the Cali smog stuff. I also had toe clean the carbs up since I found breather foam in the vac diaphram area. Did the diy home carb synch tool. Long story short it runs so much better and I think it can run even better since I havent fine tuned the mixture yet. Im currently set at 2 1/2 turns out. I get about 110 miles before light comes on. Doesnt seem to matter how I drive it either which seems weird.
08-10-2011, 04:18 PM
#15
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Squid
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Location: Springfield, OH
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I was getting bad mileage too and did some changing. I had 190 both front and rear! Also had size 50 jets. I changed to 175 front and 180 rear. (would have went with 178 but couldn't find it locally.) I went down to 48 jets.
I plugged a couple holes in the slides and re-shimmed the needles. Changed the TPS to 500ohms and plugged some vac lines that were left open from the previous owner taking off the Cali smog stuff. I also had toe clean the carbs up since I found breather foam in the vac diaphram area. Did the diy home carb synch tool. Long story short it runs so much better and I think it can run even better since I havent fine tuned the mixture yet. Im currently set at 2 1/2 turns out. I get about 110 miles before light comes on. Doesnt seem to matter how I drive it either which seems weird.
I plugged a couple holes in the slides and re-shimmed the needles. Changed the TPS to 500ohms and plugged some vac lines that were left open from the previous owner taking off the Cali smog stuff. I also had toe clean the carbs up since I found breather foam in the vac diaphram area. Did the diy home carb synch tool. Long story short it runs so much better and I think it can run even better since I havent fine tuned the mixture yet. Im currently set at 2 1/2 turns out. I get about 110 miles before light comes on. Doesnt seem to matter how I drive it either which seems weird.
08-10-2011, 05:17 PM
#16
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Well to answer your question about the jet sizes, it all depends on which jet kit was installed as some aftermarket jets flow the same as stock and some don't.
So the problem you have now is we really don't know which jet kit was installed.
Which leaves you 2 options. Take the carbs apart (or have someone do it) take some pics and post them up and we could then go from there or you could print out the first post from this thread: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-set-up-24769/ and take it to your guy and tell him that is what you want to do. You would need a set of stock needles (and possible springs depending on which kit was installed and if you still have the stock bits) a set of stock jets and a pair of #48 pilot jets and a bag of #4 flat washers.
I can try to help you get what you have dialed in but like I stated, I would need to know what you have in there before I could help with that.
So the problem you have now is we really don't know which jet kit was installed.
Which leaves you 2 options. Take the carbs apart (or have someone do it) take some pics and post them up and we could then go from there or you could print out the first post from this thread: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...-set-up-24769/ and take it to your guy and tell him that is what you want to do. You would need a set of stock needles (and possible springs depending on which kit was installed and if you still have the stock bits) a set of stock jets and a pair of #48 pilot jets and a bag of #4 flat washers.
I can try to help you get what you have dialed in but like I stated, I would need to know what you have in there before I could help with that.
08-13-2011, 07:19 AM
#17
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Squid
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OK, so I called him and he said he wants to put in 170F/175R and there is #50 pilots and he said that's close. How big of a difference is #48 and #50 pilots? Is the washers a big deal to add?
08-13-2011, 08:13 AM
#18
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The washers take 10 minutes or less if you know where they go, they'd probably take 20-30 minutes for someone who hasn't done it before. OR, if you're already messing around with the needles, they take 15 seconds to add.
Edit: The washers are only really needed if you are going back to stock needles (which has been recommended to you
)
Here's what you should remember: If your motor is running lean, it's running too hot. This will likely burn your valves and cause other problems in the long run. The way I've been taught is to err on the rich side if you're going to be adjusting things. Just a thought here... When trying to tune my hawk, I went to my mechanic a couple of times to get an opinion (I had several issues that I had to work through after rebuilding my bike). I figured and experienced motorcycle person couldn't be that wrong. Problem is, his advice contradicted what I was reading on here. I actually tried both directions, because my mechanic was so sure that he was right! Turns out, with all of his mechanical knowledge, this specific motorcycle, a quirky sport tourer from Honda, isn't setup like he's used to. I have my carbs setup like 8541Hawk's thread and the thing pulls from 2krps without popping, screams at redline, and doesn't miss a beat along the way.
Long story short, you should be able to just tell your mechanic what you want done and have him do it. I use mine now to press bearings in or balance/install my tires- things I don't have the means to do. Personally, if it were my bike, I'd recommend just saying to him, let's do 175R and 178R main jets, stock needles shimmed with washers, #48 pilots, and idle mix screws turned 1/4 turn out. No questions asked.
Edit: The washers are only really needed if you are going back to stock needles (which has been recommended to you
)Here's what you should remember: If your motor is running lean, it's running too hot. This will likely burn your valves and cause other problems in the long run. The way I've been taught is to err on the rich side if you're going to be adjusting things. Just a thought here... When trying to tune my hawk, I went to my mechanic a couple of times to get an opinion (I had several issues that I had to work through after rebuilding my bike). I figured and experienced motorcycle person couldn't be that wrong. Problem is, his advice contradicted what I was reading on here. I actually tried both directions, because my mechanic was so sure that he was right! Turns out, with all of his mechanical knowledge, this specific motorcycle, a quirky sport tourer from Honda, isn't setup like he's used to. I have my carbs setup like 8541Hawk's thread and the thing pulls from 2krps without popping, screams at redline, and doesn't miss a beat along the way.
Long story short, you should be able to just tell your mechanic what you want done and have him do it. I use mine now to press bearings in or balance/install my tires- things I don't have the means to do. Personally, if it were my bike, I'd recommend just saying to him, let's do 175R and 178R main jets, stock needles shimmed with washers, #48 pilots, and idle mix screws turned 1/4 turn out. No questions asked.
08-13-2011, 08:43 AM
#19
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Squid
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See I asked if he could do 175/178 he said they don't make 178 for these carbs they go in increments of 5, so he said 170/175 so would I be better off saying 175/180 with 48 pilots?
08-13-2011, 09:35 AM
#20
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SuperSport
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I believe the part no. for a 178 main jet is 99101-MAA-1780. It's worth confirming. My understanding is that Dynojet main jets are sized in increments of five. Maybe that's what your mechanic is talking about. Dynojet jet numbering is not the same as Keihin, OEM Honda (which is the same as Keihin) or Factory Pro (which is also the same as Keihin). In other words, a Dynojet 175 main jet doesn't flow the same as a Keihin, Factory Pro or OEM Honda 175 mainjet. It's important not to mix them up. 8541Hawk talks about using OEM Honda main jets, not Dynojet main jets.
08-13-2011, 09:43 AM
#21
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Squid
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Ok, so I just dropped it off to him. He said he ordered 178 for the rear and he has 175 in stock and he ordered 48 pilot for it. I went ahead and asked if he could change the spark plugs while he's at it. Can't wait to feel it run right.
08-29-2011, 02:07 PM
#22
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Squid
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OK, I picked up my bike the other day and it pulls great, still a little popping under deccel. He put 175F 178R, 48 P, changed the spark plugs, I get way better gas mileage now. I took it all the way to 110 and the light was flickering on and off. So I just decided to fill her up. So I went from 50-60 til gas light to 110-120 ish, and that wasn't babying it, so I'm assuming I'll get way better gas mileage when I'm not on it all the time, which will be hard to do. Front comes up most of the time when I try, I don't know how the guys who change sprockets keep it down, which I'd like to try since I do mainly in city riding. Thanks all for your inputs and help, hopefully I'll get the guts to work on it this winter and learn more about it and how to work on it myself.
08-29-2011, 03:10 PM
#23
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Awesome news... and now your mechanic knows a little more about the bike too. I found this type of result on most of my rebuild with the bike... This forum is better than most shops...
After I dropped my forks slightly and shimmed the rear, my front end is much more grounded (I have to scooch back and sit up to get the front to pop up now). I love the shimmed rear and handling, but do miss the surprise wheelies!
After I dropped my forks slightly and shimmed the rear, my front end is much more grounded (I have to scooch back and sit up to get the front to pop up now). I love the shimmed rear and handling, but do miss the surprise wheelies!
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