It's my turn. CCT broke, bad consequences!
05-20-2011, 01:58 PM
#31
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05-31-2011, 12:00 PM
#32
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why not put stock cam chain tensioners back in your bike? mine have lasted to 59k so far and just now making noise. i am putting OEM ones bake into mine this week.. is that so bad?
05-31-2011, 12:29 PM
#33
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Because they usually fail without warning, and if you do manual ones they are replaced for life, never needing to be replaced again.
05-31-2011, 03:31 PM
#34
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cursio hi
5000 is insane to spend on repairing a bike that costs less than that. i had the same problem a month ago. cct failed and i drove it to home for about 4 km with the same sound that you described. i took of front cylinder head and find that 2 exhaust valves are slightly bent. i ordered new ex valves took head to local workshop for seat grinding, reassembled the engine and thats it. shore there can be other damages on camshaft, chain, etc. but in case of replacing everything it cant cost that 5000 thousand. if you buying all new parts on internet it will cost you 1000€ tops.
only serious damage that comes on my mind by failing cct is broken piston or if valve brake a part and fall in to cylinder otherwise i just dont see how it can cost 5000
my repair cost 55€ pair of valves ( made in local valve factory bu order cause i have to wait for month and pay 160€ in honda workshop), 15€ valve seats grinding 30€ manual cct-s (also made in local workshop looks exactly like ape ones) and thats it.
dont let that thieves rip you of
cheers
5000 is insane to spend on repairing a bike that costs less than that. i had the same problem a month ago. cct failed and i drove it to home for about 4 km with the same sound that you described. i took of front cylinder head and find that 2 exhaust valves are slightly bent. i ordered new ex valves took head to local workshop for seat grinding, reassembled the engine and thats it. shore there can be other damages on camshaft, chain, etc. but in case of replacing everything it cant cost that 5000 thousand. if you buying all new parts on internet it will cost you 1000€ tops.
only serious damage that comes on my mind by failing cct is broken piston or if valve brake a part and fall in to cylinder otherwise i just dont see how it can cost 5000
my repair cost 55€ pair of valves ( made in local valve factory bu order cause i have to wait for month and pay 160€ in honda workshop), 15€ valve seats grinding 30€ manual cct-s (also made in local workshop looks exactly like ape ones) and thats it.
dont let that thieves rip you of
cheers
05-31-2011, 03:50 PM
#35
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i dont ride like helll so i cant see the need to put manual ones on it. mine lasted almost 60k miles, they are not to bad right now but like everyone says better safe than sorry.
05-31-2011, 05:07 PM
#36
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It has less to do with how you ride than how the tensioners hold up. It isn't a performance thing.
Go ahead and do the OEM tensioners if you want, but just keep in mind that you do NOT know when the front one may break and if it does it may not be cheap to fix.
On the other hand I know how long that M8-1.25 bolt is going to last. The engine will break before that tensioner thru bolt will. I also know how well it is adjusted.
They actually take less attention than valve adjustments do, based on my own experience and that of people who have talked with me about it. The nice part is if the chains get a bit loose you hear a light ticking long before there is even a remote chance for any damage, much less catastrophic failure. I will always take that over a semi-reliable "automatic" cam chain tensioner.
But hey, that's just me I guess. I like to know what's going on in there. Once a part design proves to have possibilities of failure I'll not use it if I have a choice and especially when the choice is so much less than the OEM parts.
I should mention there are a whole lot of Kawasaki riders who've gone to manual tensioners after a lot of miles on an "automatic" one when it quits working. There is a mechanical reason they fail and the chances for failure increase once it has failed the first time. It has to do with tolerance stacking and dynamic wear versus incremental adjustments.
Go ahead and do the OEM tensioners if you want, but just keep in mind that you do NOT know when the front one may break and if it does it may not be cheap to fix.
On the other hand I know how long that M8-1.25 bolt is going to last. The engine will break before that tensioner thru bolt will. I also know how well it is adjusted.
They actually take less attention than valve adjustments do, based on my own experience and that of people who have talked with me about it. The nice part is if the chains get a bit loose you hear a light ticking long before there is even a remote chance for any damage, much less catastrophic failure. I will always take that over a semi-reliable "automatic" cam chain tensioner.
But hey, that's just me I guess. I like to know what's going on in there. Once a part design proves to have possibilities of failure I'll not use it if I have a choice and especially when the choice is so much less than the OEM parts.
I should mention there are a whole lot of Kawasaki riders who've gone to manual tensioners after a lot of miles on an "automatic" one when it quits working. There is a mechanical reason they fail and the chances for failure increase once it has failed the first time. It has to do with tolerance stacking and dynamic wear versus incremental adjustments.
Last edited by klx678; 05-31-2011 at 05:09 PM.
05-31-2011, 05:38 PM
#37
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i want simple, mine lasted 60k so to me that is pretty good odds. i wouldnt mind manual ones but i have herd horror stories about miss adjusting them. either way i hope it fixes my problem, that is my main concern. thanks again for all the help i will keep posted to see if it fixes my issue.
06-01-2011, 04:17 PM
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Good luck. Seems all the horror stories I've read had to do with the front tensioners breaking and causing catastrophic failure.
Fact is out of 300 people I know of who have used a manual tensioner, only three have gone overboard on tightening them and all three corrected the issue after either realizing having the engine idle slow was wrong or contacting me to get input. In one case the rider just didn't believe that the adjustment would be that light (taking out only the play, turning the bolt in finger tight and not putting pressure on the chain), in another the rider realized he was not actually hearing cam drive rattle, and the third actually had an issue, but it was the air induction reed block on the top of his engine clicking due to not being assembled properly rather than the cam drive. So that's about 1%.
Fact is out of 300 people I know of who have used a manual tensioner, only three have gone overboard on tightening them and all three corrected the issue after either realizing having the engine idle slow was wrong or contacting me to get input. In one case the rider just didn't believe that the adjustment would be that light (taking out only the play, turning the bolt in finger tight and not putting pressure on the chain), in another the rider realized he was not actually hearing cam drive rattle, and the third actually had an issue, but it was the air induction reed block on the top of his engine clicking due to not being assembled properly rather than the cam drive. So that's about 1%.
06-03-2011, 05:59 AM
#39
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cursio hi
5000 is insane to spend on repairing a bike that costs less than that. i had the same problem a month ago. cct failed and i drove it to home for about 4 km with the same sound that you described. i took of front cylinder head and find that 2 exhaust valves are slightly bent. i ordered new ex valves took head to local workshop for seat grinding, reassembled the engine and thats it. shore there can be other damages on camshaft, chain, etc. but in case of replacing everything it cant cost that 5000 thousand. if you buying all new parts on internet it will cost you 1000€ tops.
only serious damage that comes on my mind by failing cct is broken piston or if valve brake a part and fall in to cylinder otherwise i just dont see how it can cost 5000
my repair cost 55€ pair of valves ( made in local valve factory bu order cause i have to wait for month and pay 160€ in honda workshop), 15€ valve seats grinding 30€ manual cct-s (also made in local workshop looks exactly like ape ones) and thats it.
dont let that thieves rip you of
cheers
5000 is insane to spend on repairing a bike that costs less than that. i had the same problem a month ago. cct failed and i drove it to home for about 4 km with the same sound that you described. i took of front cylinder head and find that 2 exhaust valves are slightly bent. i ordered new ex valves took head to local workshop for seat grinding, reassembled the engine and thats it. shore there can be other damages on camshaft, chain, etc. but in case of replacing everything it cant cost that 5000 thousand. if you buying all new parts on internet it will cost you 1000€ tops.
only serious damage that comes on my mind by failing cct is broken piston or if valve brake a part and fall in to cylinder otherwise i just dont see how it can cost 5000
my repair cost 55€ pair of valves ( made in local valve factory bu order cause i have to wait for month and pay 160€ in honda workshop), 15€ valve seats grinding 30€ manual cct-s (also made in local workshop looks exactly like ape ones) and thats it.
dont let that thieves rip you of
cheers
Well, the prices here in Norway is unfortunatly nowhere close to the prices in Serbia. A complete 02-03 Superhawk in good condition will cost around $13500 on the used market in Norway.
My only option is to let the workshop search for the problem for me. I do not have a garage, the tools or the experience to do a repair like this myself. They estimated 10 working hours to locate the problem and change the parts involved in the damaged engine. They take $170 an hour(!), so that will be at least $1700 + the cost of the parts ($700-1000).
When all this is done, it's still a chance that one of the pistons is damaged or something like that, but that's only fully testable after the neccecary parts have been changed, and this will lead to additional expences. Unfortunatly I do not have a valve factory nearby either...
My "new" engine has arrived at the workshop and seems to be in good working condition. The new engine is also two years newer, and has 36000 less miles on it, this will lead to a quite big increase in the value of my Hawk!
They are putting it in on thursday, I will tell you all how it goes
06-07-2011, 07:36 AM
#40
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well what can i say... didn't know that things are so expensive in Norway... still i can sense something is not right 10 hours to open and replace and reassemble its a bit to much for experienced mechanic. any how good thing is that you have found a solution for the problem.
cheers man!
cheers man!
06-07-2011, 07:44 AM
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The reason things are that expensive is that the Norwegian gubermint has decided to tax bikes and especially sportbikes to death, so the "real value" of the bike might be equivalent to $5k-7k, but then they add on to that, and that translates back to used bikes as well...
The cost per working hour seems fairly reasonable, a bit on the expensive side but not much, but I agree, 10 hours is a really slow mechanic... I doubt it'd take me more than 4-6 hours once I had the parts... And I'm fairly slow... Especially when i take beer breaks...
The cost per working hour seems fairly reasonable, a bit on the expensive side but not much, but I agree, 10 hours is a really slow mechanic... I doubt it'd take me more than 4-6 hours once I had the parts... And I'm fairly slow... Especially when i take beer breaks...
06-07-2011, 12:15 PM
#42
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Have to agree with Tweety! Fixing the damage caused by a failed cct is really not the end of it all. It is a whole bunch easier going to manual units though. If you can adjust your valves with any degree of confidence you can certainly adjust a manual cct! The odds of making it 60k miles without a failure seem about as good as making it through your first 60k miles on a real sport bike without dropping it. If you don't have the mechanical ability to do the job find someone who does, HAVE THEM REVIEW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THIS FORUM, buy them whatever mind altering substances they require and help them do the job. You will learn a lot and realize it is not brain surgery. Try to avoid blindly trusting the job to any old local dealer's shop if at all possible unless you are convinced the technician who will be doing the work has done the job on a Superhawk several times before. They are not likely to do the work with as much tlc as you would use...
06-07-2011, 08:39 PM
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Have to agree with Tweety! Fixing the damage caused by a failed cct is really not the end of it all. It is a whole bunch easier going to manual units though. If you can adjust your valves with any degree of confidence you can certainly adjust a manual cct! The odds of making it 60k miles without a failure seem about as good as making it through your first 60k miles on a real sport bike without dropping it. If you don't have the mechanical ability to do the job find someone who does, HAVE THEM REVIEW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THIS FORUM, buy them whatever mind altering substances they require and help them do the job. You will learn a lot and realize it is not brain surgery. Try to avoid blindly trusting the job to any old local dealer's shop if at all possible unless you are convinced the technician who will be doing the work has done the job on a Superhawk several times before. They are not likely to do the work with as much tlc as you would use...
now that the 4-week long muscle spasms in my lower bike ...i mean back... have finally today decided to surrender after weeks of regular stretching, ice, cursing, stretching, ice, heat, ice, stretching, cursing, stretching, bitching, moaning, and even more ice and more stretching, and additional amounts of excessive cursing and bitching and moaning i might be able to go back into my sweat-lodge of a garage and work on my VTR (Very Temperamental Bitch). oh sorry, that's VTB. hunching over the VTB every night for two weeks straight did not do my lower back any favors, just so you know. she's been aging like a fine wine for a good two weeks now patiently waiting for me to re-align the front cam-chain and check the valve lash. i have 2 head gaskets along with tensioner gaskets, those o-rings, etc. supposedly in transit. although, they should have arrived a week ago. 'better check on that tomorrow. i also have extra-long metric, yes metric :-!, feeler gauges on order that should have arrived over a week ago. what is going on here??
i expect that i'll pull the front and rear valves, etc. for good measure and measure things and swap shims, replace out-of-spec valves, prolly have Ace MC and Scooter do the stuff i don't have tools or brains for, since i've got everything stripped off anyway (good advice from Tweety. thanks again.).
contrary to popular opinion, riding my other bike at red-line through rush hour traffic actually relaxed the spasms in my back. no f**king sh*t. my wife doesn't believe this. she is almost as temperamental as the VTR. the hotter it gets, the faster i have to ride in order to keep from melting. i'm moving out of this godforsaken sh*t-hole people often refer to as "The Midwest." this summer is shaping up to be even hotter than the last summer that damn near did me in. "But it's a Wet Heat."
i think i'm finished.
--fred
06-09-2011, 02:43 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by simone
well what can i say... didn't know that things are so expensive in Norway... still i can sense something is not right 10 hours to open and replace and reassemble its a bit to much for experienced mechanic. any how good thing is that you have found a solution for the problem.
cheers man!
cheers man!
Originally Posted by Tweety
... the Norwegian gubermint has decided to tax bikes and especially sportbikes to death, so the "real value" of the bike might be equivalent to $5k-7k, but then they add on to that, and that translates back to used bikes as well...
Originally Posted by Tweety
... 10 hours is a really slow mechanic... I doubt it'd take me more than 4-6 hours once I had the parts... And I'm fairly slow... Especially when i take beer breaks...
Originally Posted by RIPI
... If you can adjust your valves with any degree of confidence you can certainly adjust a manual cct!
Thank you fred, for making my day better! Your reply made me grin like an idiot
Move to western Norway, it is never warmer than 85 degrees in the summer, an never colder than 25 in the winter! I can ride 9 out of 12 months!
06-09-2011, 05:32 AM
#45
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All I can say is see what others have said:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...al-ccts-25084/
They aren't "cheaper", they're less expensive for good quality. I happen to run the first two put in a bike (Kaw KLX and Zephyr), have for a couple of years and about 40,000 miles total. They are exactly how I would have wanted a kit had the one company actually gotten back with me. They didn't list them for my bikes and didn't respond when I contacted them. Oddly enough, they now list one for at least one of the bikes.
Only $78.95 for the Superhawk set with gaskets to Europe including shipping. USPS flat rate priority delivers within 10-12 days of shipping, and PayPal payment makes it fast, easy, and safe.
Canada runs $76.95 and the U.S. runs $70.20.
I figure why not make a good part and sell at a fair price. The process used makes that a fair price.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...al-ccts-25084/
They aren't "cheaper", they're less expensive for good quality. I happen to run the first two put in a bike (Kaw KLX and Zephyr), have for a couple of years and about 40,000 miles total. They are exactly how I would have wanted a kit had the one company actually gotten back with me. They didn't list them for my bikes and didn't respond when I contacted them. Oddly enough, they now list one for at least one of the bikes.
Only $78.95 for the Superhawk set with gaskets to Europe including shipping. USPS flat rate priority delivers within 10-12 days of shipping, and PayPal payment makes it fast, easy, and safe.
Canada runs $76.95 and the U.S. runs $70.20.
I figure why not make a good part and sell at a fair price. The process used makes that a fair price.
Last edited by klx678; 06-09-2011 at 05:40 AM.
06-09-2011, 12:31 PM
#46
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07-15-2011, 12:19 AM
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I am pleased to say that my Hawk is now on the road again with the new engine! The mechanic used the old carburettors with the jet kit installed, but everything seems to be working as it should, without any adjusting!
Is there something particular I should check / be on the lookout for after the engine change?
Is there something particular I should check / be on the lookout for after the engine change?
07-15-2011, 09:12 AM
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07-15-2011, 09:25 AM
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I still have my head in the sand re the CCT issue. I know it needs to be done, but I cant do it myself and dont trust any shop to do it. I know a guy who races pro superbike and does all his own wrenching. I guess I could ask him but he is prob too busy.
07-15-2011, 09:39 AM
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Have to admit, I feel the same way.
07-15-2011, 11:49 AM
#52
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When the front tensioner quits has nothing to do with how hard you are riding. Both times it happened while just cruising slowly and out of nowhere as the clutch is pulled or the throttle rolled off all hell broke loose inside the motor. Would really hate to see this happen while maintaining neutral throttle leaned over at the apex of a corner.......could be disastrous for more than just valves and pistons!
07-15-2011, 12:20 PM
#53
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Well I have some auto tensioners in mine right now
Yes I change them out from time to time.
Will I put manuals in? Maybe when I build the engine but will make that choise when the time comes.
Can the auto tensioners let go, well yes they can.
But I will also add that if you search through this forum, you will find more blown engines from improperly installed manual tensioners that from auto tensioner failure.
So should you replace your tensioners on a used bike you just bought or if you have racked up a good amount of miles on your bike? Yes you should.
Can you do it yourself? Well that is a question that will save you a lot of $$ in the long run.
Read the service manual. Do any of the steps confuse you or make you feel uncomfortable? There are a few steps that can be difficult as things like the timing marks on the cams can be hard to see and pretty easy to get off by 1 tooth if you are not careful. Also be careful not to confuse the "F" and "FT" mark on the flywheel....
If you are uncomfortable or confused, find someone to do it that has some references. V-twins are a little different an I4s and the person doing the replacement needs to know this.
If you are comfortable, then by all means go for it, just double check yourself at each step.
Which tensioner to install is up to you. One type needs to be replaced from time to time and the other needs someone that knows how to adjust it correctly.
One last point and no I don't have documented proof or any of that.
It is just what I was told by a very reliable source and something I have done and have had no CCT issues....
With auto tensioner:
1) Don't let the bike sit and idle on the side stand, this is hard on the front tensioner. (this falls under the I have no documented proof except what I have experienced with my bike)
2) Don't slam the throttle shut from over rev. Or in simpler terms, if you are at WOT and above 9K RPMs (or on the back side of the power curve or when the HP starts falling off aka "over rev") don't slam the throttle shut but roll off it. You can do whatever you want with the throttle anywhere else but don't just slam it shut from high RPM (which is pretty bad form anyways)
Yes I change them out from time to time.
Will I put manuals in? Maybe when I build the engine but will make that choise when the time comes.
Can the auto tensioners let go, well yes they can.
But I will also add that if you search through this forum, you will find more blown engines from improperly installed manual tensioners that from auto tensioner failure.
So should you replace your tensioners on a used bike you just bought or if you have racked up a good amount of miles on your bike? Yes you should.
Can you do it yourself? Well that is a question that will save you a lot of $$ in the long run.
Read the service manual. Do any of the steps confuse you or make you feel uncomfortable? There are a few steps that can be difficult as things like the timing marks on the cams can be hard to see and pretty easy to get off by 1 tooth if you are not careful. Also be careful not to confuse the "F" and "FT" mark on the flywheel....
If you are uncomfortable or confused, find someone to do it that has some references. V-twins are a little different an I4s and the person doing the replacement needs to know this.
If you are comfortable, then by all means go for it, just double check yourself at each step.
Which tensioner to install is up to you. One type needs to be replaced from time to time and the other needs someone that knows how to adjust it correctly.
One last point and no I don't have documented proof or any of that.
It is just what I was told by a very reliable source and something I have done and have had no CCT issues....
With auto tensioner:
1) Don't let the bike sit and idle on the side stand, this is hard on the front tensioner. (this falls under the I have no documented proof except what I have experienced with my bike)
2) Don't slam the throttle shut from over rev. Or in simpler terms, if you are at WOT and above 9K RPMs (or on the back side of the power curve or when the HP starts falling off aka "over rev") don't slam the throttle shut but roll off it. You can do whatever you want with the throttle anywhere else but don't just slam it shut from high RPM (which is pretty bad form anyways)
07-15-2011, 01:05 PM
#54
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I've got over 300 tensioners sold quite literally world wide, no blown engines. Seems good instructions make it a simple process. One rider commented:
Wow, those are some complete directions. As long as you know which end of the screwdriver to hold on to, anyone can install it correctly with those directions. Thanks.
In my search of this forum I've only seen stuff relating to engines damaged when the front tensioner breaks. Please show me where to find the other. I must have missed it.
I will say it is hard for riders to believe the tensioner should be snugged up finger tight when adjusting them, before locking down the lock nut, but it is. After all, all they do is take the slack out of the chains, no need to cinch it down for that. All I ever emphasize is that point. Never overtighten. Fact is a tiny amount of slack is better than too tight. In the Kaws the tensioners let way too much movement with the chain, but they have some warning that the tensioner is bad. In the Honda it becomes Russian Roulette - can you time it to replace that front one before it breaks and how much is it costing each time?
To quell one last myth about manual tensioners, they do not require any major attention with the exception of when the cam chains are new. As the chains seat and wear in they may need adjusting in the first couple of thousand miles and maybe a couple thou after that, but once they're set they tend to stay at that point. I have over 10,000 miles on both my bikes without an adjustment. There's no noise from them, I listen frequently, just because. I've gotten similar feedback from a couple of Concours owners too, same thing, still quiet. One has 23,000 miles since installing manual tensioner with no adjustment needed.
When an automatic tensioner proves to be unreliable I kind of think it ain't "automatic" anymore. But hey, that's just my two cents worth I guess.
Wow, those are some complete directions. As long as you know which end of the screwdriver to hold on to, anyone can install it correctly with those directions. Thanks.
In my search of this forum I've only seen stuff relating to engines damaged when the front tensioner breaks. Please show me where to find the other. I must have missed it.
I will say it is hard for riders to believe the tensioner should be snugged up finger tight when adjusting them, before locking down the lock nut, but it is. After all, all they do is take the slack out of the chains, no need to cinch it down for that. All I ever emphasize is that point. Never overtighten. Fact is a tiny amount of slack is better than too tight. In the Kaws the tensioners let way too much movement with the chain, but they have some warning that the tensioner is bad. In the Honda it becomes Russian Roulette - can you time it to replace that front one before it breaks and how much is it costing each time?
To quell one last myth about manual tensioners, they do not require any major attention with the exception of when the cam chains are new. As the chains seat and wear in they may need adjusting in the first couple of thousand miles and maybe a couple thou after that, but once they're set they tend to stay at that point. I have over 10,000 miles on both my bikes without an adjustment. There's no noise from them, I listen frequently, just because. I've gotten similar feedback from a couple of Concours owners too, same thing, still quiet. One has 23,000 miles since installing manual tensioner with no adjustment needed.
When an automatic tensioner proves to be unreliable I kind of think it ain't "automatic" anymore. But hey, that's just my two cents worth I guess.
07-15-2011, 01:20 PM
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07-15-2011, 01:24 PM
#56
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Here are the actual static adjustment instructions for the Superhawk from the instruction sheet, which are pretty much the same as on every tensioner instruction sheet I've written:
Fact is the fine tuning with engine running isn't in the instructions I have for the Superhawk and they were borrowed from one of the VTR sites and lightly edited. Apparently the original didn't do the fine tuning with engine running.
As you see, not a lot of tricks there. If you can check valves you can do cam chain tension. Even the grip of the person doing the adjustment is so small in difference that it won't affect anything.
- Clean off mating surfaces, fit new gasket and new cam chain tensioner, turning the tensioner in finger tight by hand.
- Carefully turn the engine over counter-clockwise once to make sure the cam has not jumped time and a valve hit the piston. STOP TURNING IF YOU MEET RESISTANCE, you do not want to damage any parts. I’ve not had this happen before, but I have known of a KLX650 rider spinning the engine over with the starter before adjusting the tensioner and bending valves.
- Then continue turning while still finger tightening the cam chain tensioner to make sure all play is out, then back the thru bolt 1/8 turn and tighten lock nut. (static setting)
Fact is the fine tuning with engine running isn't in the instructions I have for the Superhawk and they were borrowed from one of the VTR sites and lightly edited. Apparently the original didn't do the fine tuning with engine running.
As you see, not a lot of tricks there. If you can check valves you can do cam chain tension. Even the grip of the person doing the adjustment is so small in difference that it won't affect anything.
Last edited by klx678; 07-15-2011 at 01:27 PM.
07-15-2011, 01:31 PM
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You're right, that's one... where are the rest?
I've seen several where the front tensioner broke, heck this thread starts out with "It's my turn"...
By the way, did you read post 1 and 10? I guess I did see this one. Classic case of someone not believing well worked out instructions.
Last edited by klx678; 07-15-2011 at 01:35 PM.
07-15-2011, 01:38 PM
#58
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
Yes, it is quite possible to mess up the install, but it isn't common.
Doing manual CCTs correctly is easier than changing out jets in your carbs, by far. edit: but worse consequences if you mess it up.
Last edited by lazn; 07-15-2011 at 02:59 PM.
07-15-2011, 01:40 PM
#59
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,869
Not trying to resist or anything here, but many people asking about MCCT's don't check valves. It's not necessarily hard, but when you haven't done it before, there are A LOT of little things to keep track of that probably don't even seem like steps to someone who has installed a few. The instructions are pretty easy, yes, and they have a lot of checks to insure that you don't damage anything, but it's not as simple as putting gas in the tank or keeping the chain oiled.
I've installed manual ones, and I'm not arguing against their benefits, but are you willing to risk a working motor telling someone who you don't know that they are sure to install them correctly? Better to let them know the risks involved...
I've installed manual ones, and I'm not arguing against their benefits, but are you willing to risk a working motor telling someone who you don't know that they are sure to install them correctly? Better to let them know the risks involved...
07-17-2011, 11:41 AM
#60
Just hangin' out
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Delaware, Ohio USA
Posts: 136
Not trying to resist or anything here, but many people asking about MCCT's don't check valves. It's not necessarily hard, but when you haven't done it before, there are A LOT of little things to keep track of that probably don't even seem like steps to someone who has installed a few. The instructions are pretty easy, yes, and they have a lot of checks to insure that you don't damage anything, but it's not as simple as putting gas in the tank or keeping the chain oiled.
I've installed manual ones, and I'm not arguing against their benefits, but are you willing to risk a working motor telling someone who you don't know that they are sure to install them correctly? Better to let them know the risks involved...
I've installed manual ones, and I'm not arguing against their benefits, but are you willing to risk a working motor telling someone who you don't know that they are sure to install them correctly? Better to let them know the risks involved...
Agreed, not all should be in there doing the work. The thing is if they follow the instructions they should have no problem. If they can get in deep enough to have the cam cover off, engine rotated into the proper position to do the work, they certainly have the skill to do the tensioners from there. By then the intial prep will scare the heck out of anyone who shouldn't be doing it. I think most riders who have failures had the skill, but screwed up.
I think the one example of a damaged engine had the comment that really summed up the problems some suffer - ignoring or missing something in the directions. The whole idea that someone has the skill to get in and do the work, then ignore the instruction to only do a finger tight adjustment and "wrench it down" tighter to please themself, because they thought it was too loose is the root cause of the problem. It's like some knowledgable mechanical individual tightening up the drive chain because they don't like it wiggling up and down when the bike has no load on it, or worse yet, reducing the valve clearance because they don't like the ticking, both are formulas for failure. It's just one of those things one needs to either take by faith or to think about what is happening in the system that requires that kind of direction to understand it.
The comment I got from a customer in my earlier post was an oversimplification, but good complete instructions make for a relatively easy job for those who can use the tools. I will say that the Superhawk/Firestorm is a more difficult application than the in-line fours and even the singles are. It's all about the ability to have the timing jump. That instruction to get the engine set to the proper position takes up a fair part of the instruction - from there it is actually as easy as the part I cut and pasted, as I am sure you know.
Then there is also the fact that even knowledgable people screw up. I just got to replace two wheel bearings because I thought the one spacer on the floor was from another set of wheels that I was looking at trying to fit to my bike. WRONG! It was the spacer between the drive side hub bearing and the cush hub bearing. I damaged the bearings by pinching them down with the axle, not having any radial support on the cush hub bearing (the spacer slid in the ID) and actually had one cage break apart. I screwed up. I won't do it again. I will verify the spacers, but that's too late for my error.
Fortunately I scored a pair for about $10 from Fastenal - numbered double sealed bearings are numbered double sealed bearings and they carry them, allowing me to avoid having to order a set and wait.
The thing is I knew better, but didn't double check where the spacer went. I should have looked at my cush hub, but didn't. No excuse for poor work.
One side note:
I can not believe how many forum members on a variety of forums can not seem to find good mechanics at dealerships or independent shops. I do a lot of my own work, but I also know who and where the guys are that I would trust with any work I want/need done on car or bike. It is a matter of research and asking about. Especially if you can not do the work yourself. What good is it to say "I am afraid to do the work and I don't trust anyone else to do the work."? I know a former Honda sales rep who actually takes his CBX 120 miles away from where he lives to get it to the mechanic he feels is the best. (Fortunate for me that mechanic is a good friend who happens to work at the shop where I was in sales.) When in doubt do some digging about.
Last edited by klx678; 07-17-2011 at 11:45 AM.
