Firestorm Headlight switch
12-01-2008, 05:40 AM
#1
Senior Member
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westerly, RI
Posts: 1,216
Firestorm Headlight switch
So my dad sparked a thought. The European VFR750s have an "Off" position on their headlight switch.
Does the Firestorm headlight switch have an "Off" position?
I can think of a couple of reasons why I would want/need an "Off" position.
Does the Firestorm headlight switch have an "Off" position?
I can think of a couple of reasons why I would want/need an "Off" position.
12-01-2008, 08:08 AM
#5
Senior Member
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westerly, RI
Posts: 1,216
Good thought Sassage. I intend to do an HID in the near future, and after reading what Tweety, Anto and Hacknslash have posted on the subject, being able to turn off the headlight will improve the live of the light and the battery.
12-01-2008, 08:31 AM
#6
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 499
) but use it your way the rest of the time
12-01-2008, 11:33 AM
#7
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Si Si... We have that switch... unfortunately it's prone to moisture build up... Once you get it, clean it with alcohol and fill it to the brim with vaseline..
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/_W0QQ_d...itch&_osacat=0
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/_W0QQ_d...itch&_osacat=0
12-01-2008, 11:56 AM
#8
Administrator
World Champion
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fulton, MO
Posts: 105,287
I don't really recommend this...but to each his own.
12-01-2008, 12:13 PM
#9
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Well, the point about being able to turn it of isn't to keep it off for any period of time...
It's because the cyclic power pulses when hitting the starter is basicly killing the life of the bulb (a HID doesn't like to be interrupted when warming up...) Also during the initial start-up the HID uses oodles of power, combine that with a slightly morning cranky VTR on a cold morning and you get a dead bike as the load on the battery when running the starter and igniting the HID will prevent it from starting...
So you push the starter first, then switch the headlight on... I think the impact on the R/R is negligable in this case as the bike is at that point turning over on the starter which should be load enough...
It's because the cyclic power pulses when hitting the starter is basicly killing the life of the bulb (a HID doesn't like to be interrupted when warming up...) Also during the initial start-up the HID uses oodles of power, combine that with a slightly morning cranky VTR on a cold morning and you get a dead bike as the load on the battery when running the starter and igniting the HID will prevent it from starting...
So you push the starter first, then switch the headlight on... I think the impact on the R/R is negligable in this case as the bike is at that point turning over on the starter which should be load enough...
Last edited by Tweety; 12-01-2008 at 12:17 PM.
12-02-2008, 03:37 AM
#10
Senior Member
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westerly, RI
Posts: 1,216
Thanks for the link Tweety. I wished I had seen this earlier. Got a bid in for one on ebay UK for 9.99.
Greg, I understand what you are saying about the R/R. I do not want this to ride with the light off, but for the reasons Tweety stated. I WILL be doing a HID in the near future, and that's the reason for the switch.
Greg, I understand what you are saying about the R/R. I do not want this to ride with the light off, but for the reasons Tweety stated. I WILL be doing a HID in the near future, and that's the reason for the switch.
12-02-2008, 11:28 PM
#11
Administrator
World Champion
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fulton, MO
Posts: 105,287
Ah, gotcha. You know, my Yamaha XS750 has a neat little relay that keeps the headlight off until the motor is running. I think its power source is the alternator. Once the alternator kicks out enough juice the relay energizes and has a maintaining contact so that if the motor shuts off then the headlight still stays on (think running out of gas at night). May be possible to integrate something like that into the system. I have the XS wiring diagram in electronic form if you want to see how it's hooked up.
12-03-2008, 06:01 AM
#12
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Hmm... That would actually be legal in the US then? Since you can't switch off the headlight manually...
And Yeah, I'd really like a look at that wiring to see how it's done...
That's the beauty of this place... the combined wealth of knowledge is immense...
And Yeah, I'd really like a look at that wiring to see how it's done...
That's the beauty of this place... the combined wealth of knowledge is immense...
12-03-2008, 08:22 AM
#14
Schnitzel
Squid
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canton, Georgia, USA
Posts: 53
Older Kawasaki ZX7Rs did the same thing; no lights until the engine is running. It was a function of the fuse box. A new implementation with a more robust design could work. Especially since it won't be part of the more-expensive-than-a-fuse box (I worked on one that had electrical problems and kept killing the circuit board inside).
You could tap the coil side of a SPDT relay onto the positive lead from the R/R and wire the ground for the head lamp circuit through the normally open side of the relay. As far as keeping the headlamp on after shutting off the engine using the kill switch, this is beyond my electrical knowledge. Maybe I can get the fuse box wiring diagram posted soon.
I came up with a solution for another guy who had an HID setup on his Hayabusa. He was having issues with his ballast not wanting to function properly during startup. Basically, he didn't have a light and would have to turn off the bike and try again.
I used a SPDT relay which would cut the ground for the ballast when he hit the starter button. His problems were over until he lost the ballast while doing 180mph on his way to Florida. I told him to keep an eye on it as where it was mounted wasn't good (previous owner installed the ballast on the flimsy cowl under the headlight), but it had stayed on the bike for a while already and he wasn't worried. The new one I mounted isn't going anywhere, even if you can find it!
Idea Coming! Can't export images from the service manual PDF.... argh!
You could tap the coil side of a SPDT relay onto the positive lead from the R/R and wire the ground for the head lamp circuit through the normally open side of the relay. As far as keeping the headlamp on after shutting off the engine using the kill switch, this is beyond my electrical knowledge. Maybe I can get the fuse box wiring diagram posted soon.
I came up with a solution for another guy who had an HID setup on his Hayabusa. He was having issues with his ballast not wanting to function properly during startup. Basically, he didn't have a light and would have to turn off the bike and try again.
I used a SPDT relay which would cut the ground for the ballast when he hit the starter button. His problems were over until he lost the ballast while doing 180mph on his way to Florida. I told him to keep an eye on it as where it was mounted wasn't good (previous owner installed the ballast on the flimsy cowl under the headlight), but it had stayed on the bike for a while already and he wasn't worried. The new one I mounted isn't going anywhere, even if you can find it!
Idea Coming! Can't export images from the service manual PDF.... argh!
Last edited by PHxS; 12-03-2008 at 09:35 AM. Reason: Idea
12-03-2008, 10:35 AM
#15
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Well wiring a relay to remain open after getting an initial signal to turn on isn't that hard... just use a little ingenuity and crosswire with a diode and the relay keeps itself open with the power it is passing...
No power anywhere and the relay is open, power the coil and it stays on regardless of the power to the coil... Cut the power it's passing, ignition, not kill switch, and it opens...
Getting it to stay off until the engine is running would be "easy" with a zener diode... unless it gets say 14V it won't turn on... and a add a monostable flipflop with a capacitor to delay it a couple of seconds after startup...
But that's just general ideas... looking at the shematics of the other stuff would be helpful...
No power anywhere and the relay is open, power the coil and it stays on regardless of the power to the coil... Cut the power it's passing, ignition, not kill switch, and it opens...
Getting it to stay off until the engine is running would be "easy" with a zener diode... unless it gets say 14V it won't turn on... and a add a monostable flipflop with a capacitor to delay it a couple of seconds after startup...
But that's just general ideas... looking at the shematics of the other stuff would be helpful...
12-03-2008, 01:05 PM
#17
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Well... yes and no... This cures the problem with the ballast going completely bonkers from the starter... But not the diminshed bulb life from an interrupted warm-up...
The starter relay cuts power to the HID and all is well that far... But the HID will still come on the first time you let go of the starter button regardless of the engine running or not as there probably is enough current to keep the relay (rel4) closed... And turn of when you push the starter agian if it didn't start the first time, then on again... The warm up will still be interrupted and the bulbs lifetime will still be affected... that is unless the bike always fire on the first attempt, something I rarely get 70% of the year... Probably different in sunny california... but...
It will still be on once you hit the kill switch... Just can't turn it on unless starting the engine... So yeah it solves a whole lot of the problems...
I'd still like a delay on the HID relay though... I'll let it rattle around in my noggin a while and see what happens...
The starter relay cuts power to the HID and all is well that far... But the HID will still come on the first time you let go of the starter button regardless of the engine running or not as there probably is enough current to keep the relay (rel4) closed... And turn of when you push the starter agian if it didn't start the first time, then on again... The warm up will still be interrupted and the bulbs lifetime will still be affected... that is unless the bike always fire on the first attempt, something I rarely get 70% of the year... Probably different in sunny california... but...
It will still be on once you hit the kill switch... Just can't turn it on unless starting the engine... So yeah it solves a whole lot of the problems...
I'd still like a delay on the HID relay though... I'll let it rattle around in my noggin a while and see what happens...
Last edited by Tweety; 12-03-2008 at 01:20 PM.
12-03-2008, 01:17 PM
#18
Schnitzel
Squid
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canton, Georgia, USA
Posts: 53
I'm just going for the basics as that is what I know for now. I'll do more reading tonight.
Any tips/knowledge you can pass along would be appreciated as I have been meaning to learn more about circuit design and layout for quite a while.
How about some sort of delay before the ground makes connection in the event the engine doesn't start. Just a few seconds to allow the start button to be pressed again before the ballast can fire off the bulbs. Otherwise, I could just start drawing relays all over the place to form some sort of logic circuit. Just imagine all the clicking!!!
Any tips/knowledge you can pass along would be appreciated as I have been meaning to learn more about circuit design and layout for quite a while.
How about some sort of delay before the ground makes connection in the event the engine doesn't start. Just a few seconds to allow the start button to be pressed again before the ballast can fire off the bulbs. Otherwise, I could just start drawing relays all over the place to form some sort of logic circuit. Just imagine all the clicking!!!
Last edited by PHxS; 12-03-2008 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Another Idea!
12-03-2008, 01:22 PM
#19
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: greeley, co
Posts: 283
How about a simple time delay relay off of the switch that is already on the bike. I have adjustable ones at work that have a switch on the for manual over ride. You can set them from 1min to 10min
12-03-2008, 01:24 PM
#20
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Hm... the delay is till bothering me... But the solution is soo good anyway that I'll probably start looking for a US spec switch so I can have automatic lights...
Yeah, yeah... I'm lazy...
Yeah, yeah... I'm lazy...
12-03-2008, 01:30 PM
#21
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
I'm just going for the basics as that is what I know for now. I'll do more reading tonight.
Any tips/knowledge you can pass along would be appreciated as I have been meaning to learn more about circuit design and layout for quite a while.
How about some sort of delay before the ground makes connection in the event the engine doesn't start. Just a few seconds to allow the start button to be pressed again before the ballast can fire off the bulbs. Otherwise, I could just start drawing relays all over the place to form some sort of logic circuit. Just imagine all the clicking!!!
Any tips/knowledge you can pass along would be appreciated as I have been meaning to learn more about circuit design and layout for quite a while.
How about some sort of delay before the ground makes connection in the event the engine doesn't start. Just a few seconds to allow the start button to be pressed again before the ballast can fire off the bulbs. Otherwise, I could just start drawing relays all over the place to form some sort of logic circuit. Just imagine all the clicking!!!
I just do it for a living... Altough I usually never see anything above 5V in my work projects... Just logic chips...Well, relays are mechanical... And they fail... Plus they are expensive if they are sealed... Most cheapo ones only have a plastic hood that is rarely even glued on... just clip-on... I tend to dislike any risk of water and current mixing...
12-03-2008, 01:33 PM
#22
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
I'm pondering a flipflop solution... Gimme a couple of minutes and I'll probably get it right... This is basics since school... Haven't done this in ages...
12-03-2008, 01:40 PM
#23
Schnitzel
Squid
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canton, Georgia, USA
Posts: 53
True, most of the widely available and easiest to acquire relays are pretty cheap. On that Hayabusa, I used a pretty nice miniature one that I believe was sealed. At least it wasn't as cheap or cheaply constructed as the others. I'll get the specs on it later tonight when i'm done woking on my little brother' car.
Do you have any ideas that would work if this were a 5V problem? From there it's would be easier to upscale the parts for 12V and higher current. What'cha think?
You posted before I finally hit submit (need to hit refresh more often). I wasn't thinking about a long delay, just five seconds or so should be enough. I'll just stick to kindergarten style EE and wait to see what you come up with.
Do you have any ideas that would work if this were a 5V problem? From there it's would be easier to upscale the parts for 12V and higher current. What'cha think?
You posted before I finally hit submit (need to hit refresh more often). I wasn't thinking about a long delay, just five seconds or so should be enough. I'll just stick to kindergarten style EE and wait to see what you come up with.
Last edited by PHxS; 12-03-2008 at 01:45 PM. Reason: Got lost in a movie scene.
01-26-2009, 09:07 AM
#24
Senior Member
SuperBike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Westerly, RI
Posts: 1,216
UPDATE! Finally got the switch, after some shipping probs.
Very cool. Couldn't tell from the picture on Ebay that it has a passing light switch. Excited about that.
When it warms up a little, I'll install it. I'm hoping it's plug and play for my bike.
Very cool. Couldn't tell from the picture on Ebay that it has a passing light switch. Excited about that.
When it warms up a little, I'll install it. I'm hoping it's plug and play for my bike.
01-26-2009, 10:37 AM
#25
Banned
Back Marker
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 196
01-26-2009, 11:58 AM
#26
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
Lol... I could have told you that... Now get it cleaned and fill it up with vaseline inside before mounting... the downside of the europaen style switch is that it's prone to stick after a little water gets in there... Ie stuck on highbeam... not so funny when you have a very bright HID...
I could have told you that... Now get it cleaned and fill it up with vaseline inside before mounting... the downside of the europaen style switch is that it's prone to stick after a little water gets in there... Ie stuck on highbeam... not so funny when you have a very bright HID...
09-13-2011, 11:47 PM
#28
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Skurup, Sweden
Posts: 6,109
You should be able to answer that, given the amount of info I gave you, right?
So, either tell me how to fix my camera, or tell me enough to even begin helping you... Stock parts? Swapped to a Firestorm (EU spec) switch? HID?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
inderocker
Classifieds
11
04-26-2010 06:44 PM
