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Headlight relays, HID headlight and a delay

Old 04-26-2015, 11:49 AM
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Headlight relays, HID headlight and a delay

I just recieved my D2S with 35W ballast from The Retrofit Source. I want to install a relay setup for the headlights with a delay. I have two 20A mini Panasonic relays (what Eastern Beaver uses) and 12 gauge wire. I want to wire a delay into this for startup. I found this. This will be wired to trigger the low beam relay. I'm thinking 10-15 second delay should be plenty for me.

Anyone see a problem with using that delay timer?
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Old 04-26-2015, 12:11 PM
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Im no expert but I do my own electronics projects and will be wiring my headlight on its own relayed circuit (not HID) but where would this be located in the circuit because its only 8amps...

like I said Im not an expert and cant picture electronics circuits without a schematic in front of me
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Old 04-26-2015, 12:37 PM
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The delay device would trigger the low beam relay. The delay won't see the amps of the headlight system.

You turn the bike on with the key and the low beam comes on, right? This delay would be wired to delay that voltage to the low beam relay.
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Old 04-26-2015, 04:36 PM
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well its a 12v rated component (which I assume means 15v peak) and as long as the that part of the circuit doesnt exceed 8A you should be good to atleast try it. I would use a 5A or 7.5A fuse in line on that part of the circuit. but in my honest opinion 15 seconds is a long time but its adjustable so I say go for it, its only a couple dollars...
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Old 04-26-2015, 05:45 PM
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Well, it looks like I cannot use that delay device. It would work, but I would need to use a switch to turn it on. If I'm using a switch to turn the delay on, I may as well just use that switch to turn the headlight circuit off, then back on after starting. This is what I want to avoid though. Why? Because, in the daytime, I am afraid that I will forget to turn the dang headlight on.

Here is my headlight relay circuit without the delay. This is using the Panasonic micro relay. I'm pretty sure I drew this right. There will be a 15A fuse from the batt. +. I go by the saying, "Fuse it or loose it".
I appoligize for the chicken scratch. I didn't think I was going to post the picture when I drew it up quick.

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I DO have a normal automotive relay (same size as normal relay but twice as tall) with a 10 second delay built in, but it is a 5 terminal relay, and I have no idea right now how the heck to hook it up. I wouldn't mind sacrificing some space to use this relay. Anybody know how I can use this relay for my low beam headlight circuit? Here's a picture:

There is no markings, but I know for a fact that it is a 10 second delay 40A (I think it's 40A) relay.
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:07 PM
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ok your diagram looks pretty straight forward (minus the damn fuse lol) since that relay has no markings, how are you supposed to know whats 30, 85, 86, 87, 87a? theres absolutely no part number of any kind on it?

and whats your purpose for the delay? to make sure you have the bike started before the headlights start drawing a load from the battery?

BTW im responding to you in between bouts of sanding bondo lol...and sips of beer...
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:07 PM
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Why not incorporate the side stand switch? I'm not sure what the side stand circuit is exactly, but use it so, ignition on+side stand up = turn headlight on. Self latch the headlight relay so it stays on if you put the side stand down after you're started and that would also take the side stand switch out of the circuit once you're running so it can't kill the headlight in case of failure. You could also have a hidden switch to defeat the side stand switch in case you wanted to or in case it fails, you can still get your headlight on.

I believe the whole reason for this, scottiemann, is to prevent the on-off-on cycle of the HID during start-up. Don't think HIDs like that.

Last edited by VTR1000F; 04-26-2015 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by scottiemann View Post
ok your diagram looks pretty straight forward (minus the damn fuse lol) since that relay has no markings, how are you supposed to know whats 30, 85, 86, 87, 87a? theres absolutely no part number of any kind on it?

and whats your purpose for the delay? to make sure you have the bike started before the headlights start drawing a load from the battery?

BTW im responding to you in between bouts of sanding bondo lol...and sips of beer...
Bondo dust smells great

Like the good man below states, HID ballasts do not like hot strikes (on-off-on real fast). It reduces its life significantly.

As far as I know, these kind of relays are all designed the same way. Therefore, you can tell what terminal is for what.

Originally Posted by VTR1000F View Post
Why not incorporate the side stand switch? I'm not sure what the side stand circuit is exactly, but use it so, ignition on+side stand up = turn headlight on. Self latch the headlight relay so it stays on if you put the side stand down after you're started and that would also take the side stand switch out of the circuit once you're running so it can't kill the headlight in case of failure. You could also have a hidden switch to defeat the side stand switch in case you wanted to or in case it fails, you can still get your headlight on.

I believe the whole reason for this, scottiemann, is to prevent the on-off-on cycle of the HID during start-up. Don't think HIDs like that.
Now that is a fantastic idea. I think I will do just that. Thanks man.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:54 PM
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I like the idea but would worry that the relay would fail, leaving you without a headlight.

I had that issue when using a switch to turn off the headlight for the same reason. I wound up having to use a much more robust 20a switch.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:58 PM
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that is a great idea... btw I cant smell anymore lol.... my bondo creation isnt happening right now, trial and error is the art of life, oh well i have plans for when I do get around to the custom bodywork,

I do have some goodies on order so be ready!!! lol

and I like your new oil cap... is it battery operated?
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
I like the idea but would worry that the relay would fail, leaving you without a headlight.

I had that issue when using a switch to turn off the headlight for the same reason. I wound up having to use a much more robust 20a switch.
The 10 second delay relay failing? I believe if it fails, it would default to ON. Or wait...maybe off. Crap, I'll have to look into that.

Originally Posted by scottiemann View Post
that is a great idea... btw I cant smell anymore lol.... my bondo creation isnt happening right now, trial and error is the art of life, oh well i have plans for when I do get around to the custom bodywork,

I do have some goodies on order so be ready!!! lol

and I like your new oil cap... is it battery operated?
You couldn't get the Bondo lines symmetrical on the tank, could ya? Haha Yeah, it takes some time and patience and maybe some sober hands

Thanks man. The oil filler cap works without batteries. I believe it's a type of spring inside that expands and contracts with temperature which moves the indicator. Pretty simple tech.

Last edited by CruxGNZ; 04-26-2015 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:16 PM
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I think joe meant the relay in my idea. Yep, any additional contacts, devices or connections you add to a circuit just add one more possible point of failure, but you gotta do what you gotta do to achieve your desired end result. One could use a socketed relay and carry a spare relay on the bike. Or wire in a switch to defeat the whole circuit in case of a failure.
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Old 04-26-2015, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by VTR1000F View Post
I think joe meant the relay in my idea. Yep, any additional contacts, devices or connections you add to a circuit just add one more possible point of failure, but you gotta do what you gotta do to achieve your desired end result. One could use a socketed relay and carry a spare relay on the bike. Or wire in a switch to defeat the whole circuit in case of a failure.
Good point, also the reason why I set up mine with red Run/Off kill switch (same as on your right handle bar) only this one is on the left bar next to the light/turn/horn switch and just push the Run right after the bike is started.
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Old 04-26-2015, 09:22 PM
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A little more searching and I found this...from Bulgaria....so.... I'm not sure of the build quality or the parts inside of it, but it will do what I want it to do, which is to delay the start up of my HID headlight.

In the event of which I find my headlight is not on, and I conclude that the delay circuit is at fault, I'm positive that with a Leatherman and some patience, I can bypass the delay circuit to get me back on the road. So, I think my Paypal account is seeing another charge tonight.
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Old 04-26-2015, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CruxGNZ View Post
A little more searching and I found this...from Bulgaria....so.... I'm not sure of the build quality or the parts inside of it, but it will do what I want it to do, which is to delay the start up of my HID headlight.

In the event of which I find my headlight is not on, and I conclude that the delay circuit is at fault, I'm positive that with a Leatherman and some patience, I can bypass the delay circuit to get me back on the road. So, I think my Paypal account is seeing another charge tonight.
You can add parallel bypass circuit with a switch for redundancy.
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Old 04-26-2015, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by NHSH View Post
You can add parallel bypass circuit with a switch for redundancy.
Well, that would avoid the Leatherman scenario.
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:55 PM
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I found the eBay listing for the SPDT delay relay I mentio...what the hell? So my wife and I recently got a couple kittens (Walter and Jesse. We're Breaking Bad fans) and apparently, Jesse likes Snyder's sourdough hard pretzels, because the little **** just stuck his head into the bag and ran away with a giant pretzel! Bad kitty. He's a Bengal/Lynx Point Siamese mix, but looks and acts like a Bengal. I can't have another dog (I've had a couple German Shepherds), because of my work schedule, but this cat does act like a dog. He will play fetch with whatever you want if you ask him to and will keep doing it untill your arm is sore. He rolls over (if you're holding a treat) and barks, well sort of. He makes a wierd noise. No, not a meow. Sounds like "drrr...drrrr...drrr....". Kind of a cool animal. Hope my Man Card doesn't have a corner cut off after this.

Anyways, back on track, I found the ebay listing for the 10 second delay relay I have. Click here. It has the wiring diagram too. It's a 30A relay, not a 40A as I thought. I just need to figure out how to wire this for the low beam relay. After looking at the eBay listing, does anyone have any help with doing this?
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:59 AM
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Yes, I was meaning the delay relay failing, and yes suggesting what NHSH said which is planning in a redundant circuit of some kind.

I had a couple rides with no headlight until I wired the stouter switch and only to the low beam. This way a dead switch could only kill my low beam and I could still get home with high beam. (you just start the bike with the stock switch to low beam)

Where I live, I only need ride like one block without a headlight and I can tell by the way cars react that I am more invisible than usual. Feels very dangerous.
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:07 PM
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Doing some more reading, I found that I can use the SPDT (5 pin) 10 sec. delay relay just like a SPST relay (4 pin), but simply without connecting the 87a. It has built in "capacitance", which I hope means that it has a diode across the coil. Me is still learnin'.

This may work after all.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:59 AM
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One thing I completely overlooked, was the fact that I cannot use the delay relay as the low beam relay. Because, when I went from high beams to low beams, it would trigger the relay and there would be a ten second delay. Not good when you are riding!

I have to install the delay relay BEFORE the switch on the handle bar.

So, I will have the delay relay before the switch, and two relays for high and low beams. Pretty simple. Just requires three relays is all.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:17 AM
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You dont need 3 relays. Go to delay first that is triggered by ignition on then to a SPDT relay NC (normally closed) to low beam, NO (normally open) to hi beam.
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
You dont need 3 relays. Go to delay first that is triggered by ignition on then to a SPDT relay NC (normally closed) to low beam, NO (normally open) to hi beam.
Thanks. Idealy, that would be the way to go. However, I have half a dozen Panasonic 20A SPST micro relays for whatever projects I might do and would like to use those instead of purchasing more. They're small, so not that big of a deal.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:08 AM
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I may have missed your reasoning along the way.. but any reason you don't just install a factory left side Euro switch housing and have the factory headlight switch at your fingertips? no extra fail points installed? And you get a flash to pass switch as well

I just REMOVED my headlight relay system last night as it is not in any way needed for running the DS2 HID upgrade. the HID pulls so little wattage compared My 130 watt H4 all that wiring and two mico relays was just overkill and a waste of space.. plus induced multiply extra failure points.

Like you I was a bit concerned about forgetting to turn the headlight one. After using the new system a fey days, it has become as routine to tun it off when i stop and on after starting as putting the side stand up and down, turning the choke on or off

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Old 04-29-2015, 05:21 AM
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Crux, you could do as E suggests, then install a system of relays, weights and pulleys to sound a chime if the headlight is left on or off at the wrong time.

Another brilliant idea. You're welcome.
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Old 04-29-2015, 06:31 AM
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I know this is blasphemy, but why not just skip the delay altogether? Yes I understand the reasons for it. That understanding is that the hot strike (on/off/on) is only hard on the lamp. It shortens the life and to some extent reduces the lumen output of the lamp. I don't know what the price of the lamps are, but it seems like a fair compromise for not having a string of extra stuff to go wrong. Point being you don't have multiple $100 lamps to replace to maintain energy efficiency.
That said, I like the euro switch idea the best. I run with the hi beam during the day. That way you would have the hi beam indicator to tell you that the headlight is on.

Last edited by xeris; 04-29-2015 at 06:49 AM. Reason: add text
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Old 04-30-2015, 09:11 PM
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I believe you are over thinking this lighting upgrade.


You can wire the Xenon low beam to the OEM low beam wire at the H4 head light connection.


When you crank the starter the bike automatically turns off the power to the headlight.


Wire the high beam to a relay and source the power for the HID high beam from the accessories terminal in the OEM fuse box.


Use the high beam connection at the H4 headlight plug to trigger the relay to turn on and off the Xenon high beam ballast.


This way you get to keep the OEM head light high / low beam switch on the handle bar.


By going this route your not cutting up the OEM wiring harness and you don't have to fumble around for the high beam switch and the switch to turn off the low beam while the high beam is on.


Or were you thinking of running both bulbs at the same time for more night time illumination.


You may want to run a relay on the Xenon bulb if it's draws more amps than the OEM H4 low headlight bulb.


It would be ideal if you could find a wired 3 prong male quick connector to plug right into the OEM H4 headlight wire harness.


I have HID 8000k high and low beam headlights on my ZR2 and they can be temperamental at times by firing only one light at start up.


A quick flick of the high / low beam switch usually gets both bulbs to fire up.


When I switch to the high beams at night it does take a few seconds for the HID high beams to warm up and fully illuminate...


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