Technical Discussion Topics related to Technical Issues

Does a 1997 front brake set fit a 2005 model?

Old 04-05-2017, 03:10 PM
  #1  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
The End is on a distinguished road
Does a 1997 front brake set fit a 2005 model?

Does a 1997 front brake set (calipers, master cylinder) fit a 2005 Firestorm?

My stock setup has the black closed off metal master cylinder, whereas the 1997 has the "cup" with a screw on lid type.


The front brakes on my 2005 VTR1000 are not releasing fully, meaning the pads are always in contact with the disc. With the wheel off the ground and a decent push, the wheel only rotates about 120 degrees.

I've done the following to troubleshoot:
  • Take apart and clean calipers
  • Cleaned caliper pistons and housings
  • Bled system with fresh fluid
  • Deliberately filled MC with less brake fluid (but still above minimum) to see if there is too much in the system

After this, everything appears visually fine, however I am still having issues with the brakes binding on the disc.

Hoping another set I can source locally will work in place of my stock setup.
The End is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 04:01 PM
  #2  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,446
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
If I am understanding you correctly, you have this type of master cylinder.

Which is not the correct factory VTR master. They look like this:


Some guys swap out the VTR's brakes for the CBRF4i setup. So you may have that. A pic would help.
Wolverine is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 04:12 PM
  #3  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
The End is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
If I am understanding you correctly, you have this type of master cylinder.

Which is not the correct factory VTR master. They look like this:


Some guys swap out the VTR's brakes for the CBRF4i setup. So you may have that. A pic would help.
You are correct.

The top image is what I have on my 2005 Firestorm.

The bottom image is what the 1997 set has I will be purchasing to test.

My calipers are black and appear to be identical to the 1997 calipers.

Last edited by The End; 04-05-2017 at 04:14 PM.
The End is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 04:17 PM
  #4  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,446
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
You may consider keeping exactly what you have. The F4i setup is a mod to upgrade the power and feel of the VTR's front brakes.
Wolverine is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 04:24 PM
  #5  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
The End is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
You may consider keeping exactly what you have. The F4i setup is a mod to upgrade the power and feel of the VTR's front brakes.
Strange. I have always thought that different MC setup was the factory setup for later model VTRs.

Even a parts diagram shows that as being stock: http://www.partzilla.com/parts/searc...+05/parts.html

Regardless, I'm having troubles with it so will swap it out with the 97 set up and see if that fixes things...
The End is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 04:33 PM
  #6  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,446
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
Maybe I'm wrong...

The service manual only shows a separate res type.

Last edited by Wolverine; 04-05-2017 at 04:39 PM.
Wolverine is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 04:41 PM
  #7  
Thread Killer
SuperBike
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Geneseo, IL
Posts: 1,607
VTR1000F is on a distinguished road
The 2005 model has the integrated reservoir from the factory for both brake and clutch masters. 2005 only. I believe all year VTR brake masters have 14mm pistons. Look for a 14 cast in the master cylinder body. If both have a 14, then you should be able swap them with no ill effects.
VTR1000F is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 04:42 PM
  #8  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
The End is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by VTR1000F View Post
The 2005 model has the integrated reservoir from the factory for both brake and clutch masters. 2005 only. I believe all year VTR brake masters have 14mm pistons. Look for a 14 cast in the master cylinder body. If both have a 14, then you should be able swap them with no ill .
Can confirm I have the same integrated MC for both front brake and clutch.

Thanks - I'll give the 97 version a go. Hope that fixes it as there's a track day on this weekend!
The End is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 04:50 PM
  #9  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,446
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
Learn something every day! BTW, have you heard?
Wolverine is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 05:06 PM
  #10  
Thread Killer
SuperBike
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Geneseo, IL
Posts: 1,607
VTR1000F is on a distinguished road
In fact, I have, but don't let that stop you recounting your avian rejoinder.

Last edited by VTR1000F; 04-05-2017 at 05:08 PM.
VTR1000F is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 07:57 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
xeris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Posts: 1,453
xeris is on a distinguished road
Do you have an aftermarket brake lever?
Some of the China knock offs have been known to put pressure on the master cylinder when static.
xeris is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 08:36 PM
  #12  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
The End is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by xeris View Post
Do you have an aftermarket brake lever?
Some of the China knock offs have been known to put pressure on the master cylinder when static.
Yes I do and I did wonder this, however after removing the front lever the brakes are still binding.
The End is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 09:46 PM
  #13  
Banned
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
8541Hawk will become famous soon enough
Glad you guys figured out that all VTR1000F brake systems are the same even if they look different and do you still have the issue with the replacement master cyl?
8541Hawk is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 09:51 PM
  #14  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
The End is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by 8541Hawk View Post
Glad you guys figured out that all VTR1000F brake systems are the same even if they look different and do you still have the issue with the replacement master cyl?
I'm picking up the 97 master cylinder in a couple of hours and will fit it tonight and see.

Fingers crossed it works or no track day this weekend!!
The End is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 10:26 PM
  #15  
evil man of nothing
MotoGP
 
captainchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 4,177
captainchaos is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
Learn something every day! BTW, have you heard?
I don't think we have. Heard what????
captainchaos is offline  
Old 04-05-2017, 10:32 PM
  #16  
evil man of nothing
MotoGP
 
captainchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Posts: 4,177
captainchaos is on a distinguished road
According to Gallop polls 1 in 12 Americans is unaware.
captainchaos is offline  
Old 04-06-2017, 09:22 AM
  #17  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
E.Marquez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,173
E.Marquez is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
Maybe I'm wrong...

The service manual only shows a separate res type.
Both styles were used on the VTR..tupper wear and integrated res.
Use on code location will change what year the different MC's are used.

Last edited by E.Marquez; 04-06-2017 at 09:25 AM.
E.Marquez is offline  
Old 04-06-2017, 01:48 PM
  #18  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
The End is on a distinguished road
Bit of an update:

Installed the '97 calipers and MC on to the bike and still getting the same issue.

The wheel (off the ground) rotates about 240 degrees with a decent push.

Is this just to be expected with newer pads? More meat on them so they contact the disk more?

Can't be the rotors warped as they have only done about 3,000kms since new, and there isn't one particular disc, or spot on the disc that binds. It is the entire disc in contact with the pads.

I'm a bit lost as to what it could be now......

Last edited by The End; 04-06-2017 at 01:50 PM.
The End is offline  
Old 04-06-2017, 02:11 PM
  #19  
Thread Killer
SuperBike
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Geneseo, IL
Posts: 1,607
VTR1000F is on a distinguished road
How's it do with the calipers off?
VTR1000F is offline  
Old 04-06-2017, 02:20 PM
  #20  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
The End is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by VTR1000F View Post
How's it do with the calipers off?
With calipers off wheel spins freely. I'd say 4-5 rotations.

O̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶r̶e̶m̶a̶i̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶o̶r̶y̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶p̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶t̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶p̶l̶a̶c̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶r̶o̶t̶o̶r̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶a̶g̶o̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶f̶i̶t̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶w̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶(̶t̶o̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶c̶k̶)̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶s̶.̶

T̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶"̶m̶o̶t̶o̶d̶i̶s̶c̶"̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶m̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶c̶k̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶3̶.̶5̶m̶m̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶m̶p̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶.̶ ̶C̶o̶d̶e̶d̶ ̶M̶D̶F̶0̶2̶6̶

Checked and disc is correct for the bike.

Last edited by The End; 04-06-2017 at 02:25 PM.
The End is offline  
Old 04-06-2017, 02:40 PM
  #21  
Banned
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
8541Hawk will become famous soon enough
As they are only semi-floating rotors, 240 degrees with new pads and rotors isn't that bad and I would give it a go as once the pads bed in well you should be fine.
8541Hawk is offline  
Old 04-06-2017, 03:51 PM
  #22  
Member
Squid
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 39
The End is on a distinguished road
Another Update:

With the '97 calipers and MC installed, along with the OLD pads, the wheel spins about 1.5 rotations.

I'm going to leave it as that for now as the old pads have about 60% life left.

For reference, here is the difference in pad thickness between old + new:


Last edited by The End; 04-06-2017 at 03:56 PM.
The End is offline  
Old 04-06-2017, 04:02 PM
  #23  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gettysburg, Pa
Posts: 4,446
Wolverine is on a distinguished road
Button it up and go for a ride. I think you're being paranoid. Let the new pads bed in then try and spin it.

Old pads still have a lot of life left too.
Wolverine is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
VTRsupersport
Technical Discussion
7
03-01-2012 08:35 AM
inderocker
General Discussion
8
03-31-2008 09:09 PM
Kitch
Technical Discussion
7
04-25-2007 02:31 AM
soopahok996
General Discussion
10
08-31-2006 06:59 PM
Loco
Technical Discussion
11
04-25-2006 06:40 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Does a 1997 front brake set fit a 2005 model?


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.