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considering needle shim

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Old Feb 25, 2009 | 11:49 AM
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considering needle shim

So I am trying to decide if I want to do a needle shim, leave it alone, or if I am better off just spending the $100 for the jet kit..

I have a stock filter, and MIG exhaust, and I think it is a little (but not too badly) lean.

Oddly enough the bike has improved over time with no adjustments on my part. I had posted a thread earlier with my "issues" here: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=17390

It no longer stalls when pulling the clutch at any speed (just like it was when I had the stock pipes on) and It idles fine now. But it still backfires lots (PAIR, I know).

However it does seem to heat up faster than I remember, which makes me think it is still a bit lean. (of course this could all be in my head)

So.. Do I try shimming it? Or do I just live with it? Or do I Jet it?

Any recommendations?

Thanks!
Old Feb 25, 2009 | 11:57 AM
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Have you lowered the idle back down? When I did my pipes it seemed to warm up really fast, but not over heat. Slowed the idle back down to around 1100 and it seemed better.

I have heard that you should shim the needles after a bafflectomy, and I am sure it would not hurt though
Old Feb 25, 2009 | 12:02 PM
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Shim the needles and go up one size on the pilots (48's) and you should be good to go. Also make sure you set the TPS.
Old Feb 25, 2009 | 12:17 PM
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Idle is at 1100 with nothing done on my part to accomplish it.
Old Feb 25, 2009 | 03:17 PM
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I got a set of MIGs on my bike too. Here's what I did;

Started out stock.

Put Yoshimuras and a K&N on; used "Factory" jet kit with supplied needles, shimmed them and adjusted the idle up @ 1250/1300. Ran great.

Did the PAIR. Helped out the backfire.

Dropped the Yoshimuras and added the MIGs. Installed the stock needles and shimmed them. Runs like better than it ever has. Idles great and no misses.

I took my tuning advice from an "A" tech that is one of THE best mechanics around here.
Old Feb 25, 2009 | 05:19 PM
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I built mine from salvage. As I constructed it I read this forum and chose to install the manual cct's, set the tps, sink the carbs, all before even riding it. I also scored a set of MIGs, K&N filter, and jetted her for those mods. I did not remove the pair or drill the slides. She runs extremley well, burble pops on decel thanks to the pair system. I also get the klunk die very rarely and slide clatter ocasionally. She's just a little bitchy sometimes, but worth it for the ride.
Whatever you do, sync the carbs! This should be after all your mods and adjustments.
Old Feb 25, 2009 | 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by motojoe
I got a set of MIGs on my bike too. Here's what I did;

Started out stock.

Put Yoshimuras and a K&N on; used "Factory" jet kit with supplied needles, shimmed them and adjusted the idle up @ 1250/1300. Ran great.

Did the PAIR. Helped out the backfire.

Dropped the Yoshimuras and added the MIGs. Installed the stock needles and shimmed them. Runs like better than it ever has. Idles great and no misses.

I took my tuning advice from an "A" tech that is one of THE best mechanics around here.
Did you fiddle with the Pilots at all?
Old Feb 25, 2009 | 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lazn
Did you fiddle with the Pilots at all?

No, pilots are stock.

Here's the generic break down on jetting:

From idle to 1/4 throttle; adjust the pilot jet

From 1/4 throttle to 3/4 throttle; adjust the needle.

From 3/4 throttle to full throttle; adjust the main jet.

Air screws are fine tuners.(start out in the stock position, make other adjustments, then adjust air screw.)

Because air filters, exhaust systems and altitude vary, your jetting and adjustments may vary.
Old Feb 27, 2009 | 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by motojoe
No, pilots are stock.

Here's the generic break down on jetting:

From idle to 1/4 throttle; adjust the pilot jet

From 1/4 throttle to 3/4 throttle; adjust the needle.

From 3/4 throttle to full throttle; adjust the main jet.

Air screws are fine tuners.(start out in the stock position, make other adjustments, then adjust air screw.)

sounds like a good tuning guide. I haven't done anything with the carbs yet. I imagine you have to take the carbs out and open them up to do these adjustments, except maybe the air screw adjustment and the needles. I'm going to be diggin in because mine just started sputtering, backfiring, knocking, and stalling, all since i pulled the airbox off to find a couple screws I dropped.

thanks for posting this guide,

nathan

Because air filters, exhaust systems and altitude vary, your jetting and adjustments may vary.

Last edited by nath981; Feb 27, 2009 at 10:59 PM.
Old Feb 28, 2009 | 08:09 AM
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#48 pilots will help with decel popping. They fatten it up on closed throttle decel.

They also fatten up the low-speed, from idle and midrange, as the needles open up. It's not really a 0-1/4 throttle thing. These circuits act in parallel. But the pilots have a diminishing effect as the slides pull the needles up.

If you are not experiencing a stumble at part throttle, ~3k, I would change the pilots only, then see where you are.

Not arguing. It's all good advice here. Just a slightly different perspective.
Old Feb 28, 2009 | 08:12 AM
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i'm on the stock pilot jet bandwagon ( just like greg states ). i went up to 48 and ended up closing the a/f screws. the next carb pull i dropped back down to the 45's 2.5 turns out. ( a couple hundred feet above sea level ).

i went up because i overlook a very slight vacuum leak, self created


tim
Old Feb 28, 2009 | 11:00 AM
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I'm down with that.
I was pointed in that direction for decel popping (PAIR was blocked off).
A shim under the needle should fatten it up a bit at closed throttle, as well.
Incremental changes are good.
Old Feb 28, 2009 | 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by RCVTR
I'm down with that.
I was pointed in that direction for decel popping (PAIR was blocked off).
A shim under the needle should fatten it up a bit at closed throttle, as well.
Incremental changes are good.

off idle lean is an odd thing because there are a few directions to go... increase pilot jet, shim the needle or decrease the slide spring tension.

which solution is best ? who's to say, each probably has it's +/-'s

tim
Old Mar 2, 2009 | 10:04 AM
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So.. Do I try shimming it? Or do I just live with it? Or do I Jet it?

Any recommendations?

Thanks![/QUOTE]

here's my 2 cents. I took mine apart yesterday because I dropped a couple screws(front right airbox lid) and when I put it back, it was doing the VTR boogie(sputtering, backfiring, stalling, pulling choke out to get it to run smooth--on road,it ran good).

What I found, not the screws-where can't I get these?
seemed like the gasket on front carb may have been sucking air or leaking something based on how it compared with the rear carb(dry). I coated with K&N air filter grease lightly since I didn't have new rubber gaskets.

I wasn't putting it back together without doing the deal, so:
TPS out of spec so far I had to turn it 1/4" past mounting holes to get to 500 ohm. Drilled new hole in mount plate and wire tied the other mount.
took air mixture screw out of bottom of carbs with a modified tweezers and slotted with dremmel for screwdriver adjustment-set at 2 1/4 turns out.
removed needles and removed washer under needle and replaced with .40 washer. Started it up and now it's doing the "good vtr boogie"-cold start up good, no sputtering, backfiring, stalling. On the road, strong all the way through the rpm range. yeehah!

thanks, nathan
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