Charging question
04-20-2010, 09:30 AM
#1
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 320
Charging question
I have looked for this answer and can't find quite what I'm looking for . . .
I have to keep my '98 Superhawk on a battery tender. Otherwise, if I commute for more than 3 days or so, the battery will slowly lose charge and eventually the bike won't start. Using the battery tender each night, I have no problems.
I bought a multimeter and tried to diagnose the problem myself. I suspected the R/R was bad, but now I'm not sure.
The multimeter shows that the voltage at the battery goes up with increasing RPM, but only up to about 13.2-13.3. For example, if the battery at idle is at 12.7, it might be at 13.0 at 3000RPM, and 13.3 at 8000RPM. This makes me think that the stator is working since the voltage changes with RPM. And the R/R seems to be working too, right? How else would the voltage stay so low?
Is this a bad R/R? Bad battery? Bad stator? Bad connection? Why am I not getting high enough voltage to charge the battery? Is it just an old battery? The battery is supposedly 2.5 years old, but I can't verify that (I've had the bike for 2 years, and it's had the charging problem the whole time I've had it). Other than the charging issue, my bike seems to run great.
P.S.: I hardly ever get over 4000RPM during my commute.
I have to keep my '98 Superhawk on a battery tender. Otherwise, if I commute for more than 3 days or so, the battery will slowly lose charge and eventually the bike won't start. Using the battery tender each night, I have no problems.
I bought a multimeter and tried to diagnose the problem myself. I suspected the R/R was bad, but now I'm not sure.
The multimeter shows that the voltage at the battery goes up with increasing RPM, but only up to about 13.2-13.3. For example, if the battery at idle is at 12.7, it might be at 13.0 at 3000RPM, and 13.3 at 8000RPM. This makes me think that the stator is working since the voltage changes with RPM. And the R/R seems to be working too, right? How else would the voltage stay so low?
Is this a bad R/R? Bad battery? Bad stator? Bad connection? Why am I not getting high enough voltage to charge the battery? Is it just an old battery? The battery is supposedly 2.5 years old, but I can't verify that (I've had the bike for 2 years, and it's had the charging problem the whole time I've had it). Other than the charging issue, my bike seems to run great.
P.S.: I hardly ever get over 4000RPM during my commute.
Last edited by evines; 04-20-2010 at 09:46 AM.
04-20-2010, 10:29 AM
#2
Member
Squid
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 38
I have looked for this answer and can't find quite what I'm looking for . . .
I have to keep my '98 Superhawk on a battery tender. Otherwise, if I commute for more than 3 days or so, the battery will slowly lose charge and eventually the bike won't start. Using the battery tender each night, I have no problems.
I bought a multimeter and tried to diagnose the problem myself. I suspected the R/R was bad, but now I'm not sure.
The multimeter shows that the voltage at the battery goes up with increasing RPM, but only up to about 13.2-13.3. For example, if the battery at idle is at 12.7, it might be at 13.0 at 3000RPM, and 13.3 at 8000RPM. This makes me think that the stator is working since the voltage changes with RPM. And the R/R seems to be working too, right? How else would the voltage stay so low?
Is this a bad R/R? Bad battery? Bad stator? Bad connection? Why am I not getting high enough voltage to charge the battery? Is it just an old battery? The battery is supposedly 2.5 years old, but I can't verify that (I've had the bike for 2 years, and it's had the charging problem the whole time I've had it). Other than the charging issue, my bike seems to run great.
P.S.: I hardly ever get over 4000RPM during my commute.
I have to keep my '98 Superhawk on a battery tender. Otherwise, if I commute for more than 3 days or so, the battery will slowly lose charge and eventually the bike won't start. Using the battery tender each night, I have no problems.
I bought a multimeter and tried to diagnose the problem myself. I suspected the R/R was bad, but now I'm not sure.
The multimeter shows that the voltage at the battery goes up with increasing RPM, but only up to about 13.2-13.3. For example, if the battery at idle is at 12.7, it might be at 13.0 at 3000RPM, and 13.3 at 8000RPM. This makes me think that the stator is working since the voltage changes with RPM. And the R/R seems to be working too, right? How else would the voltage stay so low?
Is this a bad R/R? Bad battery? Bad stator? Bad connection? Why am I not getting high enough voltage to charge the battery? Is it just an old battery? The battery is supposedly 2.5 years old, but I can't verify that (I've had the bike for 2 years, and it's had the charging problem the whole time I've had it). Other than the charging issue, my bike seems to run great.
P.S.: I hardly ever get over 4000RPM during my commute.
04-20-2010, 11:20 AM
#3
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,132
It still sounds like a bad R/R to me. They can have several different failure modes.
It might just be corrosion on the connectors though. But being a 98, unless it has been replaced, the R/R that the bike comes worth isn't worth it's weight in poo.
It might just be corrosion on the connectors though. But being a 98, unless it has been replaced, the R/R that the bike comes worth isn't worth it's weight in poo.
04-20-2010, 11:43 AM
#4
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 3,451
What's your battery voltage at rest? (engine not running) It should be at least 12.5V. Also try measuring your battery voltage after a ride, then if it's not ridden for 2 or 3 days, measure the voltage and see if it dropped. Do this without using the tender. You shouldn't need to use a battery tender if the bike is ridden at least once a week.
I've seen new car batteries go bad in as little as 6 months. That's what warranties are for. However MC battery warranties suck. Unless Yuasa has changed theirs since I last bought one, it's only 12 months.
Also, is your battery an OE gel type? It sits on too much of an angle in our bikes to use a lead/acid battery. Portions of the plates could be left dry.
If you do have a lead/acid battery, check the electrolyte level...might need some water.
And what lazn said, if the R/R has been changed it will have cooling fins on it. The later models came with finned R/Rs. Good luck.
I've seen new car batteries go bad in as little as 6 months. That's what warranties are for. However MC battery warranties suck. Unless Yuasa has changed theirs since I last bought one, it's only 12 months.
Also, is your battery an OE gel type? It sits on too much of an angle in our bikes to use a lead/acid battery. Portions of the plates could be left dry.
If you do have a lead/acid battery, check the electrolyte level...might need some water.
And what lazn said, if the R/R has been changed it will have cooling fins on it. The later models came with finned R/Rs. Good luck.
Last edited by VTRsurfer; 04-20-2010 at 11:48 AM.
04-20-2010, 12:22 PM
#5
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 505
My batteries used to slowly die as you have described. Then I did the r6 R/R mod mainly as a preventative measure. It wasn't really intended to fix this problem, just to avoid the meltdowns I have read about. But the batery problem went away.
I can't say for sure if this is exactly what you have going on but it seems pretty likeley to me.
I can't say for sure if this is exactly what you have going on but it seems pretty likeley to me.
04-20-2010, 12:42 PM
#7
Senior Member
SuperSport
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Central Fl.
Posts: 530
So, what is the battery voltage after a night on the tender? And what are the voltage readings from the stator pins while the motor is running at idle and at 4.5k rpms?
New battery does not mean good battery. Go get it load tested.
A known good battery/regulator/stator gives me 14.25 at 4.5 k and 13.1 at idle. Voltage after a ride with the engine shut down is 12.75-13. Spins a cold motor over like Linda Blaire's head in the Exorcist.
I vote bad R/R, but only after the battery tests good.
New battery does not mean good battery. Go get it load tested.
A known good battery/regulator/stator gives me 14.25 at 4.5 k and 13.1 at idle. Voltage after a ride with the engine shut down is 12.75-13. Spins a cold motor over like Linda Blaire's head in the Exorcist.
I vote bad R/R, but only after the battery tests good.
04-20-2010, 01:09 PM
#8
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 320
To answer some of the questions . . .
The bike was idling @1200 RPM, lights on, when I took the idle V measurements.
The R/R on the bike currently is finned, so I guess it's been replaced in the past.
It's a gel-type battery.
I'll try some of the suggestions and update later. The bike stranded me yesterday because the tender connection had fallen off the battery and I didn't notice. But after a night on the tender, no issues at all today.
The bike was idling @1200 RPM, lights on, when I took the idle V measurements.
The R/R on the bike currently is finned, so I guess it's been replaced in the past.
It's a gel-type battery.
I'll try some of the suggestions and update later. The bike stranded me yesterday because the tender connection had fallen off the battery and I didn't notice. But after a night on the tender, no issues at all today.
04-25-2010, 12:24 PM
#9
Senior Member
Superstock
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 320
I figured it out I think . . .
It is the R/R that's failing. I used the flowchart at www.electrosport.com, and it worked great.
http://www.electrosport.com/technica...ng-diagram.pdf.
The battery was holding it's charge when the bike was off. After one commute, the voltage went from 13.75 right off the battery tender, to 13.00 by the time I got home. After two days of it sitting in my garage off of the tender it was still at 13.00. So the battery is good.
The Stator seemed to be working perfectly. About 82 AC volts at 5000rpm on all three yellow leads. Resistance was right at 0.7 Ohms between all three yellow leads also.
So I disconnected the R/R and did the diode test as described on the website. Two of the yellow wires showed "OL" (as it was supposed to) but one showed 0.00 volts. That same yellow wire also failed the next three tests, showing "OL" when it should be 0.5V, and showing 0.00V when it should show "OL". I haven't figured out exactly what all of that means, but I guess that doesn't matter right now. I'll figure it out later.
I also noticed that the one faulty diode(?) in the R/R had continuity with the (+) lead of the battery, when the other two did not. That's not a test on the flowchart, but I thought it was interesting, and maybe related.
Also, my R/R gets too hot to hold after about one minute of the bike running. So problem (hopefully) solved.
Now I just have to figure out what replacement R/R I should go with. Any suggestions? I don't care too much about the cost (within reason). I just want something good and easy to install.
It is the R/R that's failing. I used the flowchart at www.electrosport.com, and it worked great.
http://www.electrosport.com/technica...ng-diagram.pdf.
The battery was holding it's charge when the bike was off. After one commute, the voltage went from 13.75 right off the battery tender, to 13.00 by the time I got home. After two days of it sitting in my garage off of the tender it was still at 13.00. So the battery is good.
The Stator seemed to be working perfectly. About 82 AC volts at 5000rpm on all three yellow leads. Resistance was right at 0.7 Ohms between all three yellow leads also.
So I disconnected the R/R and did the diode test as described on the website. Two of the yellow wires showed "OL" (as it was supposed to) but one showed 0.00 volts. That same yellow wire also failed the next three tests, showing "OL" when it should be 0.5V, and showing 0.00V when it should show "OL". I haven't figured out exactly what all of that means, but I guess that doesn't matter right now. I'll figure it out later.
I also noticed that the one faulty diode(?) in the R/R had continuity with the (+) lead of the battery, when the other two did not. That's not a test on the flowchart, but I thought it was interesting, and maybe related.
Also, my R/R gets too hot to hold after about one minute of the bike running. So problem (hopefully) solved.
Now I just have to figure out what replacement R/R I should go with. Any suggestions? I don't care too much about the cost (within reason). I just want something good and easy to install.
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