Technical Discussion Topics related to Technical Issues

Bike won't start any more.

Old 05-04-2013, 02:22 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
Bike won't start any more.

So I bought a vtr1000 that was running really rich or some thing. It would start bogging out after 10 minutes or so of riding. Would run really strong initially then it would slowly start to run like **** until it practically didn't run at all.

So I took the carbs apart cleaned them and put them back in. While I was doing that I noticed that my choke cable valve thing was broken. (The plastic screw) I inspected the other one and accidentally broke that one too. I ordered two new replacement ones, installed them today, and tried to start the bike.

With the choke out it will start for a half a second while giving it 1/10 throttle and then it will die. With no choke it does nothing. A couple times it back fired the second I tried to start it.

Also when I pull the choke it's kind of hard to pull and slowly goes back in. It also doesn't seem like it pulls out all the way. I think maybe I hooked it up wrong or some thing. Maybe this is part of the problem.

I'm also not entirely sure I hooked up all the tubes wires etc correctly. I think I did, but not certain. I can provide pictures if needed. Also, does the air box need to be hooked up the for the bike to start?

Any ideas? I'd like to get this thing running today as I have some where I need to go tonight and this is my only form of transportation. Any and all help will be appreciated. I will be here ready to reply within seconds.
Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:18 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RWhisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 1,605
RWhisen is on a distinguished road
Where do you live? Might be time to offer to buy beer for the more experienced living near you.
RWhisen is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 04:22 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
I live in Florida. A little bit north of clearwater. (West of tampa)


Hell, if any one could help me I would throw them $50 and a few beers! I don't want to take it to a motorcycle shop because I would like to learn myself and those motorcycle shops have ripped me off in the past.

I also noticed some thing else. The two air fuel screws are flat heads right? I can't tell for certain, but they looked to be screwed in all the way. I tried using a flat head screw driver to loosen them but they would not budge and I didn't want to strip them.

What does the fuel screw do? Out more = more gas? Maybe that's why the bike won't start unless the choke is on. (And even then, only for a second or two)


What MUST be connected for the bike to run? I'm not hearing the fuel pump turning on. Does the gas tank wire have to be connected?

Obviously fuel lines and carbs. What else? I'm going to take a picture and make sure I have every thing setup right.

Last edited by Chrisguilday; 05-04-2013 at 04:26 PM.
Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 04:39 PM
  #4  
Banned
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
8541Hawk will become famous soon enough
I bet the float bowls are still empty. Did you apply vacuum to the petcock to get fuel to flow and fill them up?

If not, that is the first thing you need to do. Might-vac, a piece of hose and suck on it, whatever you have to do (on the fitting on the side where the vacuum line goes).

As for the fuel screws....out is richer and normally they are "D" shaped but could have slots cut in them and they should turn. Try soaking them in WD-40 the next time you have the carbs out.
8541Hawk is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 04:51 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RWhisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 1,605
RWhisen is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
I live in Florida. A little bit north of clearwater. (West of tampa)


Hell, if any one could help me I would throw them $50 and a few beers! I don't want to take it to a motorcycle shop because I would like to learn myself and those motorcycle shops have ripped me off in the past.

I also noticed some thing else. The two air fuel screws are flat heads right? I can't tell for certain, but they looked to be screwed in all the way. I tried using a flat head screw driver to loosen them but they would not budge and I didn't want to strip them.

What does the fuel screw do? Out more = more gas? Maybe that's why the bike won't start unless the choke is on. (And even then, only for a second or two)


What MUST be connected for the bike to run? I'm not hearing the fuel pump turning on. Does the gas tank wire have to be connected?

Obviously fuel lines and carbs. What else? I'm going to take a picture and make sure I have every thing setup right.
OK. First things first.....
This motorcycle does not have a fuel pump.

The vacuum of the engine sucks on a diaphragm in the petcock to allow fuel to gravity feed to the carburetors. The "choke" or enrichment circuit makes the fuel mixture rich so that it has enough fuel to start and keep running while cold.

Check your fuel hoses. Search for PVLIR and study the pictures to ensure you have the petcock hooked up correctly. If you have a vacuum line going to the bottom nipple on the petcock it is incorrect.

The mixture screws at the bottom of your carburetors control the air mixture. Normally set at front 2.25 to 2.5 out from a LIGHT seating and the rear at 2.5 to 2.75 out from a LIGHT seating. If you have flat tips that means someone slotted them for you as they are "D" shaped from the factory.
RWhisen is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 05:08 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,935
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
Ok, so do a search cuz there are a million threads on this very issue. What is it, pvlir?

Honda thought they'd be cute and add a fake nipple on the fuel petcock. You are probly not getting gas. You probly dont need to touch the carbs.

Dont dismantle your tv until you check to see that its at least plugged in and getting power.
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 06:43 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
Ok so I got it started. I took the carb float bowls off and they were 100% dry. No gas was getting into my carbs. I re-attached every thing and tried again. It still wouldn't start.

I noticed my battery wasn't real strong, so I swapped batteries and after a few seconds. BAM bike started up fine. I started revving the bike and it was back firing and shooting flames like crazy. I went around the block and it ran but was terrible.

Then I remembered I didn't fasten down the boots that go on the cylinder. So I fastened them down and then I noticed that the PLVIR hose or whatever looked backwards. (had the hose that goes on the drain thing on the petcock and the petcock one on the drain) Swapped them and started up the bike. Started fine and idled fine. Started to drive away and the bike started to stall out like it wasn't getting enough gas. I'm guessing my PLVIR hoses really were correct and when I swapped them I put them on backwards.

I think I might also have a vacuum leak. The bike some times idles at 2200 rpm's and some times idles at 1500-1200 rpm.

Also, my PVLIR thing isn't on the side. Both of the holes point downwards. Why is this?

Off to go switch the hoses....

Last edited by Chrisguilday; 05-04-2013 at 06:45 PM.
Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:07 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
Switched the hoses. Made it about a mile and the bike started to run like crap. Bogging... Hessitation etc. It's doing the same thing it did when I first got it.


Can't tell if its running rich or lean or has a vacuum leak or who knows. I'd like to get it fixed myself but this is my only form of transportation and I'm not certain if I can figure it out myself.

Why does my PVLIR connection point down like the fake one? Could I still be getting some kind of vacuum problem because of this? It looks like the screws that hold that piece on have been taken on and off a few times.

Could my carbs be over heating? When I take the coolant tubes off no coolant comes out. Is this normal?

My offer of $50 and a few beers still stands!

Last edited by Chrisguilday; 05-04-2013 at 07:12 PM.
Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:22 PM
  #9  
Banned
MotoGP
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
Posts: 5,942
8541Hawk will become famous soon enough
Because someone put it back together incorrectly.

No they are not over heating.

Yes if the thermostat is open.
8541Hawk is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:25 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
If the thermostat is open? What does that mean? haha.
Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:28 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,935
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
Ok now. Take a breath. Its NOT the flux capacitor, overheating(?) carbs or ants in the pants.

You are kinda introducing a lot more variables than you want to. Even on a perfect bike, doing 10 things at once then missing stuff like carb boots, airbox stuff, etc would make it wonky.

If the carb was dry then the carb is unlikely the problem (like the unplugged tv). You need to do the search on here. You gotta remove the tank, apply a vacuum to the petcock (mityvac or just suck on a tube to create vacuum) and see if fuel flows out the 2 larger outlets (as if to the carbs).

If you dont do this step, everything else is just gumming up the works. (giving you too many variables)
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:29 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RWhisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 1,605
RWhisen is on a distinguished road
Did you search for the threads on PVLIR?
Did you find the pictures?
Is the petcock all the way "On"?
RWhisen is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:42 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by smokinjoe73 View Post
Ok now. Take a breath. Its NOT the flux capacitor, overheating(?) carbs or ants in the pants.

You are kinda introducing a lot more variables than you want to. Even on a perfect bike, doing 10 things at once then missing stuff like carb boots, airbox stuff, etc would make it wonky.

If the carb was dry then the carb is unlikely the problem (like the unplugged tv). You need to do the search on here. You gotta remove the tank, apply a vacuum to the petcock (mityvac or just suck on a tube to create vacuum) and see if fuel flows out the 2 larger outlets (as if to the carbs).

If you dont do this step, everything else is just gumming up the works. (giving you too many variables)
I told you I got gas into my carbs. My old battery was not strong enough to create enough vacuum to suck gas in. Now I am experiencing some kind of PVLIR problem. My hoses are connected properly. The previous guy had the fuel petcocks vacuum line pointing down instead of left. I took it apart and I noticed the gasket is warped. Could this be causing it? Here's a picture.

Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:52 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RWhisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 1,605
RWhisen is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
I told you I got gas into my carbs.
You said earlier the carbs were dry last time you took them apart.

Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
Ok so I got it started. I took the carb float bowls off and they were 100% dry. No gas was getting into my carbs........

My old battery was not strong enough to create enough vacuum to suck gas in.
First time I've heard of a battery creating vacuum.

Now I am experiencing some kind of PVLIR problem. My hoses are connected properly.
If you have the correct hoses. One is a tank vent....one is a vacuum. Two are fuel to the carbs.

The previous guy had the fuel petcocks vacuum line pointing down instead of left. I took it apart and I noticed the gasket is warped.
Could this be causing it?
No because it wasn't like that until you took it apart.
RWhisen is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:57 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
1. The post after that I stated I swapped batteries and my bike started fine.

2. I'm assuming my old battery was not turning the engine over fast enough to create enough vacuum to suck gas into my completely empty carbs. (Spare battery that I had laying around made the bike turn over MUCH faster)

3. I have the two fat hoses connected to both of the fuel lines that are side ways. I have the tank vent connected to the little hole that is next to the main petcock system. I have the vacuum hose connected to the correct vacuum line (Normally this thing points sideways, but the guy who had it before me installed that metal piece wrong. Now it points downwards)

4. How do you know it wasn't like this until I took it apart?

Last edited by Chrisguilday; 05-04-2013 at 08:00 PM.
Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:00 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RWhisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 1,605
RWhisen is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
1. The post after that I stated I swapped batteries and my bike started fine.

2. I'm assuming my old battery was not turning the engine over fast enough to create enough vacuum to suck gas into my completely empty carbs. (New battery made the bike turn over MUCH faster)

3. I have the two fat hoses connected to both of the fuel lines that are side ways. I have the tank vent connected to the little hole that is next to the main petcock system. I have the vacuum hose connected to the correct vacuum line (Normally this thing puts sideways, but the guy who had it before me installed that metal piece wrong. Now it points downwards)

4. How do you know it wasn't like this until I took it apart?
#4. Because I'm smart like that.


But if you really must know, that's what rubber exposed to fuel does. Originally, it was flatter than a 10 year old, but because it was exposed to petroleum products it curled up AFTER you freed up the edges.

Last edited by RWhisen; 05-04-2013 at 08:03 PM.
RWhisen is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:00 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by RWhisen View Post
#4. Because I'm smart like that.
Well crap. Thought I was onto some thing. Now I'm stumped again.
Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:07 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RWhisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 1,605
RWhisen is on a distinguished road
I probably shouldn't mention this and it may lead to much ridicule from the other folks here but I have heard of people disabling the petcock vacuum system to get it to work.

The down side is you could have fuel pouring out from everywhere which is usually is not considered good if your floats are not metering properly.
RWhisen is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:08 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
I know it has to do some with PVLIR. My bike will run great for the first 2-5 minutes or so. (Just kind of rich and awkwardish) Then it will progressively get worst really fast. Any amount of throttle other then 1/5 ish and the bike will not accelerate at all. A few seconds after that and my bike will shut off like its not getting any gas whatsoever. If I let it sit for maybe 5 minutes I can go another few hundred yards.

Opening up the gas tank lid and closing it doesn't do anything. I don't hear any pressure release.

Last edited by Chrisguilday; 05-04-2013 at 08:12 PM.
Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:15 PM
  #20  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
E.Marquez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,255
E.Marquez is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
Also, my PVLIR thing isn't on the side. Both of the holes point downwards. Why is this?
..
Pictures please
E.Marquez is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:16 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
By the way, what does the fake vacuum line on the petcock even do? It seems to be connected to the inside where the gasket / vacuum Diaphragm thing is. Nothing is supposed to be connected to this right?
Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-04-2013, 08:18 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by E.Marquez View Post
Pictures please


Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-05-2013, 05:10 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RWhisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 1,605
RWhisen is on a distinguished road
Now, pictures installed on the bike.


READ THIS

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ix-pics-19843/

Last edited by RWhisen; 05-05-2013 at 05:15 AM.
RWhisen is offline  
Old 05-05-2013, 05:21 AM
  #24  
Senior Member
MotoGP
 
smokinjoe73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,935
smokinjoe73 is on a distinguished road
Yeah, Chris, the way you are describing it, the prob sounds like fuel delivery. Did you do the test I mentioned? Once you figure out what the prob is, then you can set about fixing it.
smokinjoe73 is offline  
Old 05-05-2013, 05:35 AM
  #25  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
E.Marquez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,255
E.Marquez is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
By the way, what does the fake vacuum line on the petcock even do? It seems to be connected to the inside where the gasket / vacuum Diaphragm thing is. Nothing is supposed to be connected to this right?
Atmospheric vent

Last edited by E.Marquez; 05-05-2013 at 05:44 AM.
E.Marquez is offline  
Old 05-05-2013, 05:40 AM
  #26  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
E.Marquez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,255
E.Marquez is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by Chrisguilday View Post
If that is the orientation it was assembled in, then I believe it was simply misassembled.

Should look like this.
Name:  VTRpetcock_zps448e1e80.jpg
Views: 123
Size:  150.9 KB

As I have never tried to put one together wrong, I don't know if it will effect fuel delivery or not.

Looking at the two sides that go tegeather
Name:  vtrpetcock2_zps2a86875f.jpg
Views: 85
Size:  25.2 KB
I don't see any reason you can not rotate the plate with the vac port to any clock position you wanted.
But again, I've never tried it.. and I don't see a reason to.

Last edited by E.Marquez; 05-05-2013 at 05:49 AM.
E.Marquez is offline  
Old 05-05-2013, 05:56 AM
  #27  
Senior Member
SuperBike
 
RWhisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 1,605
RWhisen is on a distinguished road
He may not have that spring Erik....
RWhisen is offline  
Old 05-05-2013, 06:18 AM
  #28  
Moderator
MotoGP
 
E.Marquez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kempner, TX
Posts: 4,255
E.Marquez is on a distinguished road
Originally Posted by RWhisen View Post
He may not have that spring Erik....
Good point.. I did notice the 2 halfs are laying on top each other with no screws holding together (so we know the diaphragm spring is not in there now) and no spring in the picture. I just assumed, it was just not in his pic, but should have asked, Nice catch..

OP,,, As it seems clear your fuel petcock has been disassembled previous to you... DO you have / see the diaphragm spring shown in this pic
Name:  vtrpetcock2_zps2a86875f.jpg
Views: 93
Size:  25.2 KB
E.Marquez is offline  
Old 05-05-2013, 07:48 AM
  #29  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
Yeah i have the spring. It goes in between the two plates right?
Chrisguilday is offline  
Old 05-05-2013, 08:53 AM
  #30  
Senior Member
Back Marker
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 127
Chrisguilday is on a distinguished road
So my fuel petcock is definitely leaking now. You say my gasket / vacuum Diaphragm thing wasn't warped before I disassembled it. But it looks pretty beat up and messed up too. I know the previous guy must have taken this thing apart a few times because its clear that he used pliers to turn the screws as they are all chewed up. Maybe they were already warped because he removed them too?

looks like I need to order a few parts for the fuel petcock any way now.


Rwhisen you mentioned disabling the vacuum part of the fuel petcock. I really need to be able to ride my bike while I'm waiting for parts as this is my only form of transportation for work. Do I still need a intact vacuum Diaphragm to bypass the vacuum part of the petcock? Looks like I'm replacing it any way so I suppose it can't hurt.
Chrisguilday is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Bike won't start any more.


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.