gpzturbo

Well superhawk fans I scratching my head here. I started investigating why I'm burning oil when I stop aggresivly. I pulled the carbs to see the tops of the intake valves to see which one had oil residue, and they all had significant oil on them. Both spark plugs had oil all over them. I ride my hawk everyday, and I've been living with this problem for awhile now. Bike makes great power and performs well, other than randomly stalling when I start off from a red light. The random stalling i'm chalking up to spark plugs being fowled from the oil thier burning. And when I have to break harder than normal I get a big plume of smoke out the tail pipe. I wouldn't have been worried if I had one valve seal maybe two, but all of them? What would cause this? I've been riding bikes all my life and never had a valve guide seal go bad. Never had a v-twin though always I-4s. My hawk has 30000 miles on it. It's a 2002 and I've had it since about 10000 miles. And those were hard lived 20000 miles. I ride hard and brake hard daily....Anybody got any ideas on what might cause this?

gboezio

First, carbs flood on hard braking on a SH
Is there oil inside the airbox ??
Are you sure it's oil on the valves or soot ??
When was the last valve lash adjustment ??
Are you measuring your oil height bike straight or on the stand (sry got to ask) ??
Are you doing stoppies ??

drew_c14

Are you sure it's seals? Could it be rings letting oil up into the combustion chamber. That might explain the braking thing, the angle of the front cylinder could be letting more oil in under a hard brake.

Also how much is the oil level going down between changings? Are you even sure it's oil being burned, it might just be running rich.

gboezio

I was thinking of the oil splashing trough the timing chain gallery and filling the valve cover, while the engine is running the two pistons go down at the same time pushing a lot of air out the PCV, it could swallow gobs of oil trough the airbox, back in the carbs throats.
Or a simple oil overfill.
Or as you said past the rings and partly spitted back trough the intakes from tight valves.

gpzturbo

Love the quick replies.
I'll try to answere all of the questions: No oil in the airbox. I check the oil when it's standing up not on the side stand. Valve lash was done less than a year ago when I installed ape CCTs. Zero stoppies. I live for the twisties not the tricks. I'm sure I'm not putting in too much oil. I have had to change oil types more than I would like. (fully syn, syn blend, brand, conventional, all 10w40). Oil level does go down inbetween oil changes. I then add a splash of oil when needed. As far as oil vs soot on the tops of valves. I only use chevron, and in the past with prior bikes I've had, my intake valves have always been very clean. I've always attributed that to chevron and occasional techron concentrate treatment. And it looks to me like oil and not soot. Oil smoke vs richness smoke. The smoke is blue white and smells like oil, and not black like fuel. I also thought it might be my rings leaking, but due to the fact it dosn't smoke ever during accleration, which I would think with rings it would.....What about my ape ccts. During installation I was questioning the amount of cam chain tightness. I adjusted and checked a number of times before I was satisfied. Even brought in a friend for his take before I called it good. I never had second thought about it again due to great perfomance of the bike after the installation. Does anybody think too tight of a cam chain could blow valve seals?....I think I got all of your questions aswere. let me know if I missed one.

drew_c14

I don't think a cam chain would hurt the seals at all. Unless the brackets holding in the cams were loose, which would cause a lot more problems. If you already have the valve covers off just remove the cam chain guide on the top and measure chain slack in between the cams. I can't remember the exact number, but it's in the manual.

It is possible for the seals to be bad, I just can't figure in the hard braking part. Unless your not down shifting, just pulling in the clutch. That could cause a little valve float if the rpm's were high enough when you did it. I'm just guessing though...

cliby

have you checked compression? might tell if its seals or valves themselves. be unusual but worth checking so you can move on to other possibilities. Do you still have the PAIR system connected? Not sure where you are located, do you have a california model with EVAP and is the crankcase vented properly so you are getting high crankcase pressures?

gboezio

Well pale blue smoke on decel points toward valve seals as you first stated, the vacuum rise and draw oil trough the seals. It should smoke after a long idle then clear up after a bit and on on decel. Oil past rings should not make it to the intakes, will stain everything in the chamber tough, as cybly said, a leakdown test would rule out the rings thing and badly sealing valves.
You pointed that you used many brands of oil, I would check the engine for sludge, clogged drainback holes may cause some problems.
Also is there a possibility that the pistons have kissed the valves from improper adjustment not enough to bend the valves but still enough to cause abnormal wear on the guides/seals. It's unlikely since it would have to happens to both cylinders at the same time, could be resulting from improper cam alingment. A leakdown test would tell also is there are slightly bent valves.

gpzturbo

I do have the pair system disabled and I'm in northern alabama without a california model....What would indicate engine sludge? how would I check for that? Used oil looks ok during oil changes. And under the valve cover looks ok, no sludge....Leakdown test? Is that the same as a compression check? That was the next thing I was going to do, if I didn't see oil on the valves....I ruled out improper cam alingment due to no loss in performance. If anything the hawk has improved over time.

cliby

leak down is more involved than compression test (actually measure rate of loss of compression) and give more info, but compression is a good first start. Neither will tell about the seals but will about the valves or rings and possible carbon build up on the piston which could raise the compression.

gboezio

Well, if you have access to an air compressor you could try to build your own leakdown tester, you could get there for 40 $
Here's the link of one of my writups on the subject
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=680940
As for the reference hole a .035 wire welder tip would work just fine
The smaller the reference hole the more sensitive the tester will be, you could even use a .025
I would check the sludge last but you could pop the rear valve cover to have a look in there (it's the easy one)

Hawkrider

Make sure your crankcase breather is not plugged. Also, are you checking oil with the bike running or off? I gotta ask. Sorry if that seems a little simplistic, but I've seen some strange stuff. I highly doubt the seals are bad. That would be highly unusual.

evines