p_trice

Hi everybody, new to the forum. I picked up a 98 superhawk last week. It has 42k miles on it. It has a two brothers exhaust, stock airbox with a high flow filter, and the main jets have been changed out for bigger ones, 193 and 195. the needles might be different too, not sure. Carbs have cleaned spotless. This bike will not start for nothing. It sputters like it wants to and pops every time but won't actually take off and run. Sometimes it kinda pops back through the carb. it has great spark, cam timing is perfect. rear cylinder has 130psi compression, front cylinder has 110psi. The previous owner mentioned something about changing one of the cct's. I'm assuming it was probably the front one. Any one have any ideas? is this a timing issue, maybe bad valves, or maybe an electrical issue?

xeris

Welcome aboard.
Are you 110% sure the cam timing is correct? In light of the comment about the PO just changing out the front CCT gives me cause for concern. I think that the consensus on the carbs/intake is going to be return the set up to stock or 8541hawk's set up. You'll find that in the Knowledge base. Either way does not include a "high flow filter".

p_trice

I definitely agree with you there. The stock carb/airbox setup is best. Can I still keep the two brothers exhaust though? And as for the timing. I turned the motor to the rt mark for rear head. re and ri marks were lined up perfectly with top of head, facing away from each other. turn motor to ft mark for front head, same results. fe and fi marks lined up perfect. I will check again today to be sure.

gab

main jet are probably one of the problem (i dont no much about timing....)

with slip on and stock filter (and some have mod airbox) you will probably be between one or two size bigger jet.. so 193/195 sound way too much... just a baseline

p_trice

even with the bigger main jets, I would think the bike would start and idle atleast. also, the previous owner drove this bike for 2 seasons with the current setup. it just quit runnin on him, sat for about a year, then i bought it.

bzera

So I take it your choke cables were fine?

All old gas out of it?

That is low compression. I think hawk is supossed to have 160-169? But I'd think it would run.

Is there good fuel flow reaching carbs?

Also might be good idea to check r/r on back right side under rear fairing. Look for melting or discoloration. Rr is known for all sorts of probs.

p_trice

I am using fresh gas. And its reaching the carbs. My hand gets wet with gas when I choke the carbs by hand. My choke circuit and cables r working properly. After further inspection. I noticed the slides for both carbs have a 3rd hole drilled. Does this mean someone installed some crappy dynojet kit?

xeris

Yes I believe it does. I wouldn't think that the kit would keep the bike from running. You stated that the PO was riding it till "it just quit". That statement raises warning flags for me.

shadow623_

join the cant start your bike club im having almost the exact same issue but mine is bone stock.

p_trice

i tinkered with the bike for hours today. regulator checked out fine. timing is spot on, somewhat low compression, but valves visually appear to be sealing and do no look bent at all. After lots of persuasion, the most i could get the bike to do is sputter for maybe 5 seconds by itself. a fellow friend and mechanic said the way it ran it maybe sounded like a bad coil. I have good spark at both coils but could it be possible? I also have a spare icm, and converter unit, tried both with no changes, still won't run. almost ready to find a different motor, lol

Super Hawk Pro

Sounds like a dyno jet kit to me with the 3 rd hole. Where are you located ?

8541Hawk

Have you checked for P.V.L.I.R. ?

Also is the kill switch in the run position?

p_trice

yea, the kill switch is in the run position. My gas tank is completely off the bike. I have funnels for each gas line to supply the carbs. so pvlir is not a problem. But I had checked for it from the beginning, the petcock was hooked up right when i took it apart. And I'm located in central Illinois, damn corn fields. lol

bzera

I'm in central il as well. These bikes can be picky. When you took off the carbs did you check the fuel screw for the setting?

You say has spark? Is it yellow? Or blue?

You said carbs clean but did you check if diaphragms are working right and check floats?

shadow623_

Make surw your plugs are getting spark they are iridium rated high but I found out today thats why my hawk wasnt starting. I am getting new plugs monday and I upgraded my r/r runs like a champ again

p_trice

My pilot screws r 2 turns out. And I've tried different settings with no difference. I have bright blue spark from both coils. Diaphragms work great and have no rips or holes, except the 3rd hole drilled by the PO. And the floats work. Carbs r getting plenty of gas. Could this be maybe a r/r issue. The one on it I believe is stock. Not sure. Would have to double check.

bzera

It could be r/r.. Been known to make bike not run more than.

Rather difficult to check it considering you need to be to 5k rpm to see what battery is charging at so your not over or undercharging. But it's honestly a good idea to replace it considering how cheap it is and what it can do.

I got my replacement for $30 shipped

2 1/2 are closer to stock. My memory is usually good and considering I just did them I'd think I remember but the into is on the forum. That will make a difference.



.

SIRR1

You were reading my mind on the VR/R!


I am in Southwestern Illinois, when you get it running maybe we could all run the Great Rivers Road in Grafton Il some weekend...


Did you seen the bike run?


Or has it been sitting?


SIRR1

p_trice

The spark plugs i have look fairly new and have good spark. But i ordered a new set just to be safe. they will be here tuesday. I have never seen the bike run, I bought it cheap enough that it didn't matter. The PO said he replaced one of the cct's, rode it for a whole season, it started backfiring sometimes, then it wouldn't start, then he put it up. sat for about a year. I bought a feeler guage, going to check the valve clearances today. just trying to rule everything out.

bzera

With troubleshooting it is always good idea to do easiest things first. Honestly I'd go step by step through manual Troublshooting, IMO still best way to diagnose for the most part.

Good idea on clearances.

If they are close to spec tho it should definately start. That being said, you have confirmed compression enough to where it would fire. You have solid spark in BOTH? Cylinders. You getting fuel you said.

Only one that's left out is air out of the simple equation.

So if your clearances are ok then only thing it most likely is would be r/r. From what I've read they can linger with problems then just bam kill your bike. They can do a myriad of things.

I just hope if r/r was case the po didn't ride it like that for a while. Fried my icm and converter unit from riding like that too long.

Made my bike impossible to diagnose. Made so many intermittent problems.

Long story short rr is cheap. If your clearances check out definately have the rr be first thing replaced

bzera

Btw yea I'm up for a ride. Don't know the road you speak of. I'm right off route 80 in central il. Maybe you guys know Ottawa?

superman22x

Did you try running it on ether at all? It will at least give you an idea if it can run or not.

Check your valve clearances. At that mileage, bad clearance could cause hard starting. My friend's old CRF450 had no clearance left and that bike would not idle at all and was nearly impossible to start. Still pulled hard above idle though.

Did you check compression at WOT?

When I bought my bike, the PO couldn't get it to start. He claimed the carbs had just been cleaned. I put in new plugs, and still had no luck getting it started. So I pulled the carbs and just soaked them in pinesol for 24 hours. Put them back on, and it started and ran like a champ.

p_trice

i've tried ether, still doesn't start. And yes, i have spark on both cylinders. When i did the compression test, i did with carbs on at wot, and with the carbs off. highest reading from back head was 110psi, highest from front was 130psi. but arent' u supposed to do a compression test with the motor warm, i don't have that luxury. pos doesn't run. What r/r would you guys recommend buying, I was thinking a Caltric direct replacement from ebay.

superman22x

If it wouldn't run on ether, you can probably rule out carbs as being an issue then. Your compression should allow it to run. But your valves may be out of spec which could be giving you a lower compression on the rear cylinder.

I bought a R/R from an 02 or so R1 I think it was. $25 on ebay, and worked like a charm.

p_trice

Had it backwards. The front head was the one with lower compression,sry. Checked all the valves today. Also ordered a 98-01 R1 r/r for $26 off ebay
Rear head
Exhaust left .012
Exhaust right .012
Intake left .007
Intake right .006
Front head
Exhaust left .011
Exhaust right .011
Intake left .004
Intake right .005
Might need a shim kit?

superman22x

Intake should be 0.006 and exhaust 0.012, +-0.001 for both, so I think you are ok. Your front head is slightly out of spec, but not by much. Not enough that it would cause hard starting. Only if you had little to no clearance really.

Maybe it's just the R/R then... Mine just wouldn't charge the battery. Bike ran fine otherwise. But others have had it completely kill the bike.

bzera

I wouldn't know what else. From those numbers you should idle on your better cylinder at least. Mine ran on one when I was having issues and po might have well taken(and probably did) a sludgehammer to what is now my bike.

p_trice

Well I guess I'll just wait till my new r/r and spark plugs get here. Hopefully it will run.

thedeatons

Have you tried something simple like turning the idle setting way up?

What does it do with the fuel enrichener **** (commonly thought of as the choke ****) out?

What about with the **** in?

James

p_trice

It doesn't really matter where i set the idle at, still doesn't run . With the choke out it pops every time and acts like it wants to run, sputters for a few seconds then dies everytime. With the choke in, it barely pops.