Dr Honda

Price isn't set in stone yet... but I'm hopping to be less than the original price. Also... since I own the shop and the mahcines... there is no issues with running out of parts, or having to get enough orders to fill a quota. Once the program is made, and a set of lathe jaws are cut... I can make a single set if need be. (without a setup fee) How's that for service. The worst that may happen, is you will have to wait a few days for me to get free time.

Anyway... I think the design is going to use a floating plate, and a split ring for a mount. It should help keep the price down.

SO... if anyone has a set of the original stacks that are not mounted yet... can I get a measurement?? I need to know the length from the bottom (the part that goes into the carb) to the bottom face of the mounting flange please.

I have it from the drawings that were sent to me... but I want to verify.

I'll be ordering materials today, so I should have a prototype next week. (along with the fork brace)

Thanks

Rama

I go whit my factory... if anyone was interested, the price for a couple of stacks in ergal was 90€ + shipping.

Dr Honda

That's about $125 USD + shipping from Italy.

But what is "Ergal"?

Rama

Ergal is the better quality of aluminum (7075)

The price is high, but for low quantity i can't have a better price...

Dr Honda

OK. I've never heard that term used in the states.

But... with aluminum... there isn't a "Better quality". Different alloys have different uses. 7075 is a hard alloy, it is great for things like a rear sprocket where wear is an issue. But for a part that will never move, or have any stress put on it... you really can use any of the alloys. (even 1100 or 3003) But... 6061 is very common, has very good mechanical properties, it's relatively cheap, and it's a very free cutting alloy. (cuts fast, and won't weld to the tools)

I actually got my start into this industry because there were some parts made for radio controlled cars that were a harder alloy. Every one loved them, and the illusion of the 7075 alloy being better was why people bought the parts. (JT Racing) The problem was, people would snap their chassis and shock towers with a minor tumble. I reproduced the parts out of 6061-T4 for less, and people never broke my parts. Why... because 6061 isn't brittle, and with the T4 hardness, it was plyable.

But like I said... with the stacks, they can be cut out of anything.

scatterbrained

Still waiting on you DocHonda. BTW, if you don't mind me asking, which part are you focusing on first, the stacks or the brace. I'm trying to plan out my upgrade budget and plan on making other changes in conjunction with these.

Tweety

Sorry to disturb the planning guys... I just though I'd put the issue on dyno results to bed once and for all...

Now... Before you start commenting and going all hog wild... READ THE TEXT!!!

If you fail to do this you will most likely make a fool of yourselfes... And you will kill of any and all interest from me to discuss this...

1. These numbers are from my personal dyno... I own it and I have also built it... It's not an "official" dyno in any way...

2. The numbers are rearwheel and the torque is in Nm ie it reads about 1,35 * the Lb/Ft you guys usually see...

3. No it's not calibrated... The only calibration I have done is to compare the "official" sheets two mates have gotten at the local shop after they used my dyno to tune their bikes... (3 sheets at different modifications compared to the final setup run + 1 vs 1)

4. I believe I'm reading ~1 hp high up top and about ~0.5 hp high down low...

5. My sensorspeed isn't quite as good as a pro dyno (but accuracy is as good as), so my lines will be a bit smoother as the lines are longer between datapoints...

6. These are used for me personally to compare and tune... Nothing else...



Red: Bone Stock... Before I touched anything... Basicly new bike, just broken in...
Blue: Removed restrictions in carb boots, Bafflectomy and Re-jetted to my best effort...
Yellow: Jardine Slipons and a modified stock airfilter (no lip)
Purple: Cams, Heads and Flywheel (Sorry, I seem to be missing the torque numbers... I'll go digging...)
Brown: Current... Billet stacks, FloCommander and a BMC street filter...

Comparing stock vs Now and before and after the stacks...



Oh... I forgot... The figures stock was 99,4@9100 and 85,4@7000 and now 115,3@8750 / 100,3@7250...

mikstr

You da man Markus

The improvement from the stacks BMC and F-C are nice

BTW, I wasn`t aware you had cams and headwork......

Firestorm996

Ergal is a term widely used in Europe for AL 7075. As DocHonda pointed out it is not necessary to use this high quality material for a pair of Stacks, but it would be highly recommended for the triples....

Rana, maybe you shoot me a pm, i would like to know more about the duc front end conversion, as i am in Spain, it would be pretty easy for us to connect.

Cheers

killer5280

Cool. Need cams.

Tweety

Well... Like all the rest of my strange mods I did it myself when I got boored out of my skull this winter... So it's probably far from optimal... Cams are made by a local shop that used to race a really nasty VTR in BOTT... I have a couple lying around as spares (And no I won't sell them... There won't ever be more done, as they where a one off...)

Edit: The results are incremental, but they are actually "out of order" as the cams and heads are the newest addition... It was just that like I said a while ago I had messed up my files, so I ran the dyno with the stock stacks once I had the internal work in order... Then re-did it with the stacks... So you actually haven't missed anything...

I haven't had a chance to ride it with the latest incarnation as the effin snow is still falling outside...

The stacks together with the BMC did just what I wanted... The BMC alone had the same tendancies as the K&N... It improved the top end, made a big hole in the middle and improved the low end but with uneven results...

With the stacks and BMC the bottom end got fatter/smoother and the top end didn't run out of breath as fast... In the middle at around 6000-6500 I could have gotten it even better, but then I'd have to sacrifice the top or bottom or both...

Considering the gobsmacks of torque available all over the place I choose to keep it like this... The bike is still a wheelie machine...

Tweety

Well... I need pistons... I still haven't cracked 120 at the wheel...

On a serious note, I doubt I need to... This is as much as I need and then some... I can feel the frame moving, so more might be counterproductive in the long run...

That doesn't really stop me from thinking though... And that's usually dangerous...

mikstr

I am still debating about getting a BMC or keeping my one-off modded stock filter....

anyhow, thanks for the info (BTW, you forgot to add the modded snorkel in your last mod list too, unless, of course , the extra 2.5 hp and 3 lb-ft you mentioned getting with it is not included there)

mikstr

I agree on all counts. Of course, I have a set of OS JEs (with skirt coating and ceramic top coat) just screaming at me to be put in..... getting louder....... must resist.......ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Dr Honda

Materials are ordered, and will be here Monday. (should be) I need to order a cutter for my lathe to cut the backside of the stack. (should take a few days) So... the Velocity stacks should have a prototype by the end of the week. (if I don't get hit with other work)

I'm going to play with the model a little more on the brace... but I will start it next week also.

So... I'm going to be working on both projects at the same time. Right now, I don't have any major orders for production for next week, so it's a safe bet that they will both get worked on. (Monday morning always changes that though)

Lastly... don't worry if you don't have cash for both parts, or just aren't ready to buy. (I think I've said this) but I own the shop, so I will make them on demand. Also... I'll always make a few extras when I run them, so I will probably keep one or 2 of each part on the shelf.

Tweety

Oops... I forgot... But in reality there are a few other small one's along the way that I left out... TPS, ignition advancer and such...

The two latest numbers, both Cams&Heads and the Stacks&BMC is with the snorkel gutted & smoothed... But that only makes a difference from about 6000 rpm and up... bottom end was as far as I could find unaffected...

zmaniv

Tweety do you have specs for the cams you had made? Over here in the states we could always have Web cams make them.

NAVY8TR

Thanks for keeping us posted doc!

scatterbrained

+1 I was just thinking the same thing.

Tweety

Well... If I knew I'd gladly tell... I didn't have them made... I bought the spare parts that was left on a shelf from when the team quit racing the VTR's and moved to never toys... RC51's and then Mille's and now RSV4's...

They where created by a mad genius... It's quite possible he is literaly mad... He's a bit odd at the very least... But he's forgotten more about tuning a VTR than I have learned so far... And he absolutely refused to tell me anything concrete about them... Except not to screw them up as there are no replacements... And apart from one of them which is a straight copy of Moriwaki's Stage II cams...

I'm not an engine expert by any means... I'm fairly certain RCVTR and others know far more about building an engine than I do... I'm decent with carb setup and I can follow instructions... But the theories of the inside parts and how to improve them kind of baffle me...

I have 4 cams... Or rather I have 5, one being a "bonus"... And none of them are the same... So unless I tear the engine down again and have them measured/replicated... It's gonna stay unknown...

I did try to measure it before sticking it in there... But I have limited knowledge of how the cams are supposed to be for a VTR, so those numbers are somewhat questionable to manufacture from... (And you try to measure something which isn't quite round and not quite eggshaped with a caliper and see how you do... )

One being the copy of Moriwaki's, the other 4 are "experimental"... And the last "bonus" one is a "failed" experiment... Ie it was only a small improvement over stock... (One caveat though... This was in an engine that was... Well... Mine is mostly stock in comparasion...) As far as I was told they range from about somewhere in the middle of where my engine is now and stock, to slightly more aggressive then Mori's... The one I'm using is no 2 in the series...

I basicly told the guy what I had done and was planning to do and he said to pick this one and how to set it... If I stick new pistons in, he suggested the Mori copy or the even wilder one... I kind of doubt I'll test that in awhile... Apparently that one is "right" for 140+ Hp...

In the meantime, this one most definetly works... So I'm not complaining...

Och BTW If anyone want's to build a 140+ VTR engine, I'll sell you that cam... I doubt I'll be needing it... And I'll also consider saling the failed experiment... Ie the "mild" one which is just a tad more than stock...

mikstr

If you guys want to have custom grinds built, why not use proven Yoshi or Mori Stage 1 numbers....

killer5280

We're getting off topic in this thread, but what the heck. I just wanted to clear something up.
Do you have 5 different sets of cams, which would be 20 pieces in all?

Tweety

AFAIK, the one's I have in there now is supposed to be comparable to Mori Stage 1's... But with this guys own little tweaks... If that's better or worse I'll never know... It's good enough for me...