Valve adjustment write-up?
02-08-2013, 05:47 AM
#1
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Valve adjustment write-up?
Has anyone done a posting on how to adjust the valves or is the manual the basic way to go? Also is there a shim kit that I should order ahead of time? I called a shop to see how much they would charge to do it and it was quoted at 4 1/2 to 5 hours at 75 per.......ehhhh guess I'll do it myself.
02-08-2013, 06:08 AM
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Has anyone done a posting on how to adjust the valves or is the manual the basic way to go? Also is there a shim kit that I should order ahead of time? I called a shop to see how much they would charge to do it and it was quoted at 4 1/2 to 5 hours at 75 per.......ehhhh guess I'll do it myself.
You do not NEED a shim kit, but you will likely need shims... If your ok with effectively doing the job twice, once to measure clearance and check current shim size, then order replacement shims and do the whole job again.. you do not NEED the shim kit.
For me, that is too much wasted time and hassle.. so I order a shim kit for each of my bikes. Even if I only use it once, that is worth it to me.
The VTR uses 9.48mm shims.. Kits can be had for $70 or so
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOTCAMS-ENGI...-/270629515515
Last edited by E.Marquez; 02-08-2013 at 06:15 AM.
02-08-2013, 06:54 AM
#3
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The first order of business is to loosen the timing hole cap and crankshaft hole cap on the stator cover. The crankshaft hole cap in particular has a tendency to seize.
You'll benefit from having a micrometer or a good digital caliper to measure shims.
There are a number of advantages to buying a shim kit as E. Marquez suggested. However, considering that it's probably not the prime time of year to ride in Missouri and it's not critical to get the bike on the road quickly, I'd be inclined to measure the clearances and determine whether any shims have to be replaced. Sometimes all the clearances will be within tolerance. It's more likely that you'll only have to replace one or two. You could do 8541Hawk's carb set up while you're waiting for the shims to arrive at the dealer.
You'll benefit from having a micrometer or a good digital caliper to measure shims.
There are a number of advantages to buying a shim kit as E. Marquez suggested. However, considering that it's probably not the prime time of year to ride in Missouri and it's not critical to get the bike on the road quickly, I'd be inclined to measure the clearances and determine whether any shims have to be replaced. Sometimes all the clearances will be within tolerance. It's more likely that you'll only have to replace one or two. You could do 8541Hawk's carb set up while you're waiting for the shims to arrive at the dealer.
02-08-2013, 08:04 AM
#4
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1) Any *good* dealer will already have a full shim kit, so you shouldn't have to wait for them to arrive. Could be done in one day so you're not laid up too long. Measure shims, do math, run to dealer and buy new shims (some will let you trade in your old ones), and put new ones in. Often if they are out of spec, an old shim will work in a different location. I only had to buy 5 (of 8) shims, even though all 8 were just out of spec.
2) While shim kits are convenient, they only include every other size shim. This is enough to get any out of spec valves back in spec, but not enough to get it dead center in spec. In my opinion, if you're going to shim the valves, you may as well get it dead on rather than just "in spec".
For example, if spec is in between 1 and 2, hitting 1.5 is ideal. If you measure "3" and shims only come in sizes of 1, you can either shim it to 1 or 2, which, while technically in spec, won't be perfect. Hope that's not too vague...
3) This job takes organization. A feeler gauge and micrometer are the only special tools, but the best thing to do is draw out each valve head and write down your shim measurements as you go, and keep track of everything! Make sure the buckets and cams all stay in the same location, etc. Knowing this going in will make you not rush it so much, and save time in the end. But it's well worth doing it to save some cash.
2) While shim kits are convenient, they only include every other size shim. This is enough to get any out of spec valves back in spec, but not enough to get it dead center in spec. In my opinion, if you're going to shim the valves, you may as well get it dead on rather than just "in spec".
For example, if spec is in between 1 and 2, hitting 1.5 is ideal. If you measure "3" and shims only come in sizes of 1, you can either shim it to 1 or 2, which, while technically in spec, won't be perfect. Hope that's not too vague...
3) This job takes organization. A feeler gauge and micrometer are the only special tools, but the best thing to do is draw out each valve head and write down your shim measurements as you go, and keep track of everything! Make sure the buckets and cams all stay in the same location, etc. Knowing this going in will make you not rush it so much, and save time in the end. But it's well worth doing it to save some cash.
02-08-2013, 08:23 AM
#5
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Thanks guys that helps out tremendously. My work dictates tight tolerances such as + or - .010 on a lot of dimensions so I am familiar with getting something within tolerances or dead on.
02-08-2013, 08:27 AM
#6
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Any good dealership SERVICE department will have a large set of shims, but they are not for retail sale. Many times those pile of shims belong to a TECH, not the shop.. And MOST times, when you the retail customer go up to the parts counter, you will be told they do not stock them, but they can order them for you.
Now, some will say the local shop will trade them shims, some will say the local shop stocks them new for retail sale... that's great if they do. But I've found that to be the small exception, not the rule.. and it is supported by many years worth of like stories recounted on normous internet forums over the years. Great if it works out that way, but don't count on it.
Hot cams only sells in .05mm increments, but Pro X and others sell in the .025 increments. And reality is, .05mm gets you in spec 100% of the time. .025 can assist in getting you to a specific tolerance inside the OEM range, if that is what you want to do.
Last edited by E.Marquez; 02-08-2013 at 08:29 AM.
02-08-2013, 08:41 AM
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Ah, I guess I was thinking of the Hot Cam kit as it seems to be the ones I've seen people refer to, I was unaware of the ProX. In that case, it's less hassle to go that route, just make sure you buy the ones with .025 increments...
I was able to buy shims at my dealer service dep't (and a local Jap bike shop had them too if that didn't work), they wouldn't let me trade old ones but did have a full set. Cost like 5 bucks a shim, though, so didn't save a **** ton of money, cause it ended up costing 25 bucks. But it is still an cheaper option than the $80 shim kits.
I was able to buy shims at my dealer service dep't (and a local Jap bike shop had them too if that didn't work), they wouldn't let me trade old ones but did have a full set. Cost like 5 bucks a shim, though, so didn't save a **** ton of money, cause it ended up costing 25 bucks. But it is still an cheaper option than the $80 shim kits.
Last edited by 7moore7; 02-08-2013 at 08:43 AM.
02-08-2013, 10:32 AM
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The shim kit is one of two popular sizes and as I have several bikes and work on many others.. It makes sense for me... But I understand not wanting to buy a set if your a one bike garage...more so if it's non riding season where your at...
Pull it down, measure, remove cams, measure shims in place, do math, order (buy) shims ($5.33 each Ronayers.com Microfiche Honda>Motorcycle>2000>VTR1000F>CAMSHAFT VALVE )
wait 7-10 days and have them in your hand..install, measure.. Button up if in spec...... Wait for snow to melt and go ride
Pull it down, measure, remove cams, measure shims in place, do math, order (buy) shims ($5.33 each Ronayers.com Microfiche Honda>Motorcycle>2000>VTR1000F>CAMSHAFT VALVE )
wait 7-10 days and have them in your hand..install, measure.. Button up if in spec...... Wait for snow to melt and go ride
02-08-2013, 11:41 AM
#10
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As mentioned any decent shop will have shims. Also as mentioned it's usually the service dept that has them NOT the parts dept. So if you go into the parts dept and they don't have them walk back to service and ask them. They'll likely have them and probably sell them to you. The shops I've worked at the techs never had to buy their own shim sets, it's always the shop that supplies them. Not to say that some techs may buy their own for what ever reason anyway. There are so many different shim sizes for different makes and models for shim over and shim under applications it'd be cost prohibitive for a tech to have to buy their own shim kits.
On another note if you get just the shims you need and go back to install them most likely if you did your math correctly they will all work. I have seen sometimes though that even with correct math that you put the shim in and it's just barely in spec where the next size one way or the other may work better, so you're back to the shop again. Considering you get like 3 shims in each size over a huge range for $70 vs. buying the shims for $5-$8 each at the dealer the shim kit really is a good way to go. And if you're doing it yourself you've already saved many times more than that in labor costs.
As for trying to hit the clearance right in the middle of the spec, you can if you want to be that **** about it but it's really not a big deal and it's not going to have any affect on performance. If anything set them erring on the loose side so as they wear and tighten up they have more room before they are to tight. Other than that if you're anywhere in the spec you're good to go!
On another note if you get just the shims you need and go back to install them most likely if you did your math correctly they will all work. I have seen sometimes though that even with correct math that you put the shim in and it's just barely in spec where the next size one way or the other may work better, so you're back to the shop again. Considering you get like 3 shims in each size over a huge range for $70 vs. buying the shims for $5-$8 each at the dealer the shim kit really is a good way to go. And if you're doing it yourself you've already saved many times more than that in labor costs.
As for trying to hit the clearance right in the middle of the spec, you can if you want to be that **** about it but it's really not a big deal and it's not going to have any affect on performance. If anything set them erring on the loose side so as they wear and tighten up they have more room before they are to tight. Other than that if you're anywhere in the spec you're good to go!
02-08-2013, 12:19 PM
#11
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As for trying to hit the clearance right in the middle of the spec, you can if you want to be that **** about it but it's really not a big deal and it's not going to have any affect on performance. If anything set them erring on the loose side so as they wear and tighten up they have more room before they are to tight. Other than that if you're anywhere in the spec you're good to go!
But I'd rather be precise than "in spec"- in a lot of cases, "in spec" just means "not broken", not as good as you can get it. If I were to set mine slightly loose, I'd set them all that way as close as possible, not just the ones that happened to end up that way better. I think I absorbed all this from the forum when I was doing mine, but I happen to agree with it... it's all about perception I guess... it may not make a noticeable difference, I don't have anything to compare it to.
02-22-2013, 02:33 PM
#12
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. Recent events led me to look to buy a shim kit and I'm not finding any with .025mm increments... Wiseco, ProX, HotCams, Moose, and a generic brand all go in .05mm increments.
02-22-2013, 02:42 PM
#13
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And raise you to the correct answer.
ProX Racing Parts shims in 0.025mm incremental sizes! | ProX Racing Parts
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/...o-X-Valve-Shim
Your suppler or your research SUCKS.
02-22-2013, 08:36 PM
#14
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Because he was mistaken and "called me out" or because you missed the smileys I used to make sure no overly sensitive types got butt hurt of my friendly ribbing a fellow rider?
Either way................
Either way................
Last edited by E.Marquez; 02-22-2013 at 08:38 PM.
02-22-2013, 08:55 PM
#15
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What ever.
He needed correct information on shims, he got correct information on shims. Sounds like the Op was helped, and your the only one with an issue...
02-23-2013, 07:15 AM
#16
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It was a friendly jab! I didn't take offense... it was just a return at my little winky face... not trying to cause problems!
But aside from that, I'm having a hard time finding a full or partial kit with .025mm increments... it seems that the kits only have .05mm ones. Your link has them individually (unless I'm missing something), but part of the problems is that I have zero lash so I'm not sure the size or even within a couple of shims what size I'll be needing. So I don't want to just buy them individually. If I were to buy three per size of each size it would be 400 bucks, (over double the price of what a "kit" would cost in theory- around $180). I could buy a range, but then I'll have a bunch of shims between 1.5mm and 2.0 mm and no other ones for later if I were to ever make use of the kit again, which would be part of the point of buying one...
I'll probably just get one of the lowly but acceptable $80 .05mm shim kits and get the valves in spec to see if that's even my problem. I'm probably just chasing a rainbow down a one way street anyway, haha!
But aside from that, I'm having a hard time finding a full or partial kit with .025mm increments... it seems that the kits only have .05mm ones. Your link has them individually (unless I'm missing something), but part of the problems is that I have zero lash so I'm not sure the size or even within a couple of shims what size I'll be needing. So I don't want to just buy them individually. If I were to buy three per size of each size it would be 400 bucks, (over double the price of what a "kit" would cost in theory- around $180). I could buy a range, but then I'll have a bunch of shims between 1.5mm and 2.0 mm and no other ones for later if I were to ever make use of the kit again, which would be part of the point of buying one...
I'll probably just get one of the lowly but acceptable $80 .05mm shim kits and get the valves in spec to see if that's even my problem. I'm probably just chasing a rainbow down a one way street anyway, haha!
Last edited by 7moore7; 02-23-2013 at 07:20 AM.
02-23-2013, 07:24 AM
#17
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No one, in this case I just happened to be correct.. Not the same thing at all now is it. 
Im a site user just like anyone else,,, what I do here as a moderator has nothing to do what what I post in response to posts like yours. I follow the established rules for posting, just like you do.
My only issue, is with folks that are third party to a conversation and find fauxrage where there is no issue.
archaicguy; Sir hope you got the info you needed.
7moore7; You thought I had posted some bad info, pointed it out and gave me a light ribbing.. No harm no foul.
I responded with a good nature ribbing and the facts that support what i had posted is correct. Aftermarket shims do come in .025 increments.
VTRsurfer, nice of you to want to stick up for someone else, even if it was not required, and you were wrong in your assumptions. Not sure what internet dictionary you subscribe to that gives you a doctrinal definition of what each smiley face means... but your wrong in this case. Twas not mocking 7moore7, just funning with him after he "called me out"
Im a site user just like anyone else,,, what I do here as a moderator has nothing to do what what I post in response to posts like yours. I follow the established rules for posting, just like you do.
archaicguy; Sir hope you got the info you needed.
7moore7; You thought I had posted some bad info, pointed it out and gave me a light ribbing.. No harm no foul.
I responded with a good nature ribbing and the facts that support what i had posted is correct. Aftermarket shims do come in .025 increments.
VTRsurfer, nice of you to want to stick up for someone else, even if it was not required, and you were wrong in your assumptions. Not sure what internet dictionary you subscribe to that gives you a doctrinal definition of what each smiley face means... but your wrong in this case. Twas not mocking 7moore7, just funning with him after he "called me out"
Last edited by E.Marquez; 02-23-2013 at 07:32 AM.
02-23-2013, 07:30 AM
#18
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Perhaps call or write ProX racer and ask. It may be that the retailers are just showing new old stock, ie the older kits that have just the .050 shims.
As to your specific problem..yup tough call.... try a local shop and see if they will swap....with a promise of buying the needed shims once you figure out the size needed?
05-24-2014, 11:58 AM
#21
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How have others dealt with this problem?
05-24-2014, 02:28 PM
#22
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What if the OP just uses a feeler gauge and finds all valves in spec? Then don't buy any shim kits just yet. Or was this done already and I missed it?
As to the stuck cap I've read in more than one location here it's common to use a chisel to drive it CCW out of the case. But I am not speaking from personal experience since mine still goes in and out just fine.
Apologies in advance if I offended anyone. (or everyone...!)
As to the stuck cap I've read in more than one location here it's common to use a chisel to drive it CCW out of the case. But I am not speaking from personal experience since mine still goes in and out just fine.
Apologies in advance if I offended anyone. (or everyone...!)
05-24-2014, 04:56 PM
#23
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What if the OP just uses a feeler gauge and finds all valves in spec? Then don't buy any shim kits just yet. Or was this done already and I missed it?
As to the stuck cap I've read in more than one location here it's common to use a chisel to drive it CCW out of the case. But I am not speaking from personal experience since mine still goes in and out just fine.
Apologies in advance if I offended anyone. (or everyone...!)
As to the stuck cap I've read in more than one location here it's common to use a chisel to drive it CCW out of the case. But I am not speaking from personal experience since mine still goes in and out just fine.
Apologies in advance if I offended anyone. (or everyone...!)
05-24-2014, 05:07 PM
#24
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Aye, I hijacked this thread for the purposes of drumming up a new crankshaft cap and learning more about the hiccups of this process. Was going to check clearances and CC tension; turns out I took off the covers for no reason! Next time I'll start with crank hole cap.
05-24-2014, 05:16 PM
#26
Amateur Hour, Every Hour
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Awesome tip - I won't have to try and chisel the existing cap out. Too bad I already put the covers back on 
and I'm too lazy to go backwards this weekend.
(P.S. for Rick) Do you still have that stock tail light? If so, PM me a photo & price?
and I'm too lazy to go backwards this weekend.(P.S. for Rick) Do you still have that stock tail light? If so, PM me a photo & price?
05-24-2014, 09:16 PM
#28
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i have a spare cap if you need it. i paid $14 so that plus shipping and its yours
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